Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

[Canadian Malcontent]

I have worked a fair bit of construction including highrise and the steel core I see in those pictures is structural steel it heavier (thicker) material and quite obviously a structural core.
I can only assume that the floors were precast concrete which is high strength concrete (less water when mixing it) very strong and also very brittle. Precast concrete floor sections are characteristically hollow having cylindrical voids in them running end to end. they are about 50% air. This is consistent with the failure we all watched on TV.
The concrete would have been pulverized into dust. The amount of wieght and the repeated impacts as every floor got hit in its turn could easily turn half the concrete to dust. Thats my opinion based on experience with construction and construction materials.

P.S. the reason the buildings fell straight down and did not tip over is gravity related.

I just looked over the pictures and there is no concrete core, those are steel structures. When you hang steel on concrete you need a LOT of concrete the concrete can hold itself up as well as lend rigidity to the steel structure.

 

[Christophera]

OK, I really need to say this:
I served in the Navy on 4 submarines, three sub tenders, and three submarine squadrons in the height of the cold war. (USS Pollack SSN-603, USS Guardfish SSN-612, USS George Washington SSBN-598, USS Pogy SSN-647, USS Sperry AS-12, USS Dixon AS-37, USS McKee AS-41, Submarine Squadron 3, Submarine Squadron 2, SubGroup 5, if you're interested, or even if you're not). I never heard anything about C-4 coated REBAR or any other such nonsense. This claim is total BS, and anyone who says it is a bald-faced liar. No such thing exists or ever has existed. PERIOD, end of discussion!

Don't care what you saw in a PBS documentary, I was there, been there, done that, have the T-shirt to prove it.

JimBenArm, please explain why you would NEED to know about the self destruct capabilities of sub bases and missile silos. Or why your superiors would inform you.

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

In the 1990 documentary I viewed called "The Construction of the Twin Towers", the first 30 minutes was devoted to the design process. Yamasaki took Robertsons original core column design and built a model to scale and loaded then subjected it to wind tunnel tests. He found that the towers resistence to bending was acceptable, but, with loads applied, the very tall proportions and winds over 65 miles per hour showed deflections of the perimeter walls that indicated failures would probably occur over 75 MPH of wind. 110 MPH winds in hurricane were normal at times and the spec.'s bascially called for resistence to 120 MPH. Yamasaki abandoned the steel core columns and utilized the steel reinforced cast concrete core as it handed lateral displacements better and dealt very well with the torsion issue.

Wow, this documentary covered EVERYTHING. I wish that I had watched it.

 

[Bell]

Christopher, care to answer my other posts? I asked you many times, which undoubtly you must know, what with your photographic memory and all.

 

[Christophera]

I have worked a fair bit of construction including highrise and the steel core I see in those pictures is structural steel it heavier (thicker) material and quite obviously a structural core.
I can only assume that the floors were precast concrete which is high strength concrete (less water when mixing it) very strong and also very brittle. Precast concrete floor sections are characteristically hollow having cylindrical voids in them running end to end. they are about 50% air. This is consistent with the failure we all watched on TV.
The concrete would have been pulverized into dust. The amount of wieght and the repeated impacts as every floor got hit in its turn could easily turn half the concrete to dust. Thats my opinion based on experience with construction and construction materials.

Canadian Malcontent, based on your experience with construction and construction materials, please tell us what you think that material is to the left of the spire aproximately 500 feet off the ground which has survived the crashing descent of hundreds of thousands of tons of steel.

Concrete shear wall to left of interior box column, the "spire"

concrete shear wall closeup with annotation​

Here is a view from 90 degrees to the right.

Shear wall face​

 

[Bell]

JimBenArm, please explain why you would NEED to know about the self destruct capabilities of sub bases and missile silos. Or why your superiors would inform you.

Why would YOU know, but JimBenArm doesn't?
Oh, right, it was in a magazine article, for the whole world to read

 

[uruk]

The cross supports you indicate are a part of the crane platform. The crane towers could be independantly moved around, up and down, inside the platform.

Note, the diagonal braces you arrow in green ARE INSIDE the interior box columns. And, are never seen inthe demo images.

The crane towers are clearly marked and visible. The cross beams that I marked in green are also clearly visible. So now your moving the goal posts. I'm sure the cross beams are there amoungst the pile of broken steel beams. But hey, you still can't show us a picture of the concrete core. construction photos or demo photos.

 

[uruk]

Hey Chris!
You still are ignoring this!
Why wont you respond to it? Could it be because it shows you to be wrong about something? Does it put a kink in the armour of your self confidence?

Come on big guy, be a man own up to it.

Quote:
Originaly posted by Christophera:
"Tony Jebson" <jebbo@texas.net> wrote:

>......Apparently, the WTC towers had no internal
>structural columns but relied on the exterior structure for
>support / strength. No doubt the impact of an airplane does
>this no end of harm.
I worked in downtown NY in the late 1960's when the towers were
built! At lunch time we went to the construction site to watch the
progress. And we saw them first buildt an internal thick walled
rectangular concrete core inside which later the elevators ran. The
steel work was erected around this core several floors behind!

-=tom=-

Seems like "Tony Jebson" is a liar or seriously mistaken.

Where is the concrete core several floors ahead of the steel work in these pictures?

Come on Chris If Tony Jebson is right there should be a concrete tube soring abouve the steel . Where is it?

 

[uruk]

JimBenArm, please explain why you would NEED to know about the self destruct capabilities of sub bases and missile silos. Or why your superiors would inform you.

So how do you know? Were you ever in the military?

Or was mentioned in the documentary?

 

[Christophera]

Or like saying the towers collapsed symmetrical AND the buildings fell to the wrong side?

The top of WTC 1 fell south when over half of the vertical support was wiped out on the north side. The fires present on the south side simply did not have enough heat long enough over enough area of enough columns to cause this failure.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4422&stc=1&d=1165458488

There are detonations shown on the towers that exemplify explosions used to "steer" the fall of parts of the towers.

Here is a totally unexplainable event without demolitions, the core of the top of tower 2 falls on WTC 3 and is seen inside the perimeter walls.

 

[Christophera]

Hey Chris!
You still are ignoring this!
Why wont you respond to it? Could it be because it shows you to be wrong about something? Does it put a kink in the armour of your self confidence?

Come on big guy, be a man own up to it.



Seems like "Tony Jebson" is a liar or seriously mistaken.

Where is the concrete core several floors ahead of the steel work in these pictures?

Come on Chris If Tony Jebson is right there should be a concrete tube soring abouve the steel . Where is it?

All your images are over 4 floors and the steel surrounded the concrete core after that. A person on the street would not have been able to see anything happening.

You forgot to post an image of some of the 47, 1300 foot steel core columns inside the core area at some elevation over the ground from the demo images. Do that soon please.

 

[Christophera]

The crane towers are clearly marked and visible. The cross beams that I marked in green are also clearly visible. So now your moving the goal posts. I'm sure the cross beams are there amoungst the pile of broken steel beams. But hey, you still can't show us a picture of the concrete core. construction photos or demo photos.

You need to show the diagonal braces of the interior box columns from the demo images. Your ability to interprete constuction images is minimal. There are many images of the interior box columns after the perimeter steel and flors have fallen away. See if you can find one in there that shows the diagonal bracing you suggest is there.

Keep in mind that the moment frames were heavily braced with diagonals but they are obvious.

Here is the moment frame on the center left.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/docs/ssm/dsc00169.jpg

 

[uruk]

http://images.wisconsinhistory.org/whi_images_new/700099990250/9999004225-l.jpg

Elevator guide rail support steel.

It was weak, insubstancial structure that was whisked away by heavy steel and concrete crashing down the concrete core leaving the steel reinforced cast concrete tube standing.

PROOF, no core columns protruding from the core area

You face it like a man. There is no raw evidence from the demo supporting the existence of steel creo columns inside the core area.

The pictures posted in this thread cleasrly shows coulumns within the core area. You are claiming that they are elevator guide rails with out any evidence or proof to back that statement up.
I have provided proof that those columns are too big to be rails.
I have shown you pictures of elevator rail guides.
You have shown me no proof that they are elevator rail guides.
I have even posted the model numbers of the elevators used int he WTC towers from Otis themselves.
I have posted thier web site showing the models of elevators that they sell. None of them show rail guides that big.
Now it's up to you to prove to me that those are elevator guide rails.
Show me plans. Show me models. Show diagrams, show me a model of elevators that use rails that big.

 

[Christophera]

it's a bit like the one below.......



praps chris and the mohawk smokeum too muchum peace-pipe?

BV

praps BV and homer have no evidence.

 

[Canadian Malcontent]

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11corexplosions.html


Also, please examine the issues I've pointed out with the expanding planes of debris and the vertical valley formed between them down low on the page. Common sense stuff.

I looked this over and there was no concrete core.
The steel beam end that is represented to have been cut by 'explosive shear' is just the end of the beam it came off the truck like that thats what the end of a beam looks like when they make and when you buy it and when you use it.

And the towers did not fall the wrong way the impact of the aluminum airplane didnt even rock the building.
The heat from the burning kerosene weakend the steel structure and the and the steel failed the building then fell straight down as per our experience to date with GRAVITY.
The weight and impact pulverised the concrete floors and thats where a lot of the dust came from.
Had the towers been concrete or steel on concrete I dont think the would have fallen..

I watched the wtc7 video. Question, how did you expect it to fall? Like a leaf?

 

[uruk]

All your images are over 4 floors and the steel surrounded the concrete core after that. A person on the street would not have been able to see anything happening.

You forgot to post an image of some of the 47, 1300 foot steel core columns inside the core area at some elevation over the ground from the demo images. Do that soon please.

So then are you saying that Joberson was wrong?
According to Tony Jebson and you WTC 1 had the concrete core go up several floors ahead of the steel. The construction pictures of WTC 1 show no concrete core ahead of the steel work.

Quite obfuscating and dancing, I'm not talking about interior steel core columns at the moment in this post. I'm talking about Joberson's e-mail.

 

[JimBenArm]

JimBenArm, please explain why you would NEED to know about the self destruct capabilities of sub bases and missile silos. Or why your superiors would inform you.

Oh, gee, I don't know, like, to keep us from accidentally SETTING THEM OFF? Submariners are trained and qualified on every system on the ship, because it is truly a matter of life and death if something happens. There is NOTHING the crew doesn't know about. NOTHING!

So what makes you more qualified to speak on this than me?

Tell me again how many subs you served on?

When did you earn your "Dolphins"?

Do you even know what "Dolphins" are?

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

Canadian Malcontent, based on your experience with construction and construction materials, please tell us what you think that material is to the left of the spire aproximately 500 feet off the ground which has survived the crashing descent of hundreds of thousands of tons of steel.

Concrete shear wall to left of interior box column, the "spire"

concrete shear wall closeup with annotation​

Here is a view from 90 degrees to the right.

Shear wall face​

By your own estimate, what you claim to be the concrete core wall is about 4 feet thick. Yet 500 feet is at only little more than a third the height of the tower. Would the core really taper from 17 feet to 4 feet in the bottom third of the tower?

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

The top of WTC 1 fell south when over half of the vertical support was wiped out on the north side. The fires present on the south side simply did not have enough heat long enough over enough area of enough columns to cause this failure.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4422&stc=1&d=1165458488

There are detonations shown on the towers that exemplify explosions used to "steer" the fall of parts of the towers.

Here is a totally unexplainable event without demolitions, the core of the top of tower 2 falls on WTC 3 and is seen inside the perimeter walls.

You claim that the explosives were small enough that the explosives in the floors didn't damage the core; instead the core had it's own explosives. But you also claim that these huge debris clouds were generated by explosions. Which is it?

 

[hcmom]

At least I have evidence that Chris can be a funny guy when he want to be!

praps BV and homer have no evidence.