I think this forum is ready for a nice indepth look at Lloyd's account.
For those that don't know Lloyd England was the taxicab driver whose car was allegedly speared by a light pole hit by flight 77 on 9/11.
However his account is physically impossible.
Conisder this a challenge to all jref'ers to demonstrate otherwise.
My claim about the impossibility of Lloyd's account was made after months of research & debate, physical examination of the same style light pole that allegedly speared his cab, and interviews with Lloyd himself in person.
Since this is my conclusion the logical assumption would be that Lloyd is lying.
Why he would lie I do not know and I do believe there are possible scenarios where he would remain innocent or a victim.
He could be under duress; his life, family, or livelyhood threatened.
Or it's even possible he could be manipulated mentally and not even be aware that his story is untruthful. He exhibits traits of senility which would naturally leave him more vulnerable to mental manipulation.
Bottom line.....without a doubt........his account is physically impossible.
Let's review his claims.
Here is the earliest published account that we have found:
Lloyd, Survivors' Fund Project Survivor Story
Naturally this is impossible since he was on route 27 about a few hundred feet from the Pentagon and the plane was reportedly traveling around 500 mph.
This could be written off as misinterpretation by the author of the article and Lloyd has never made that claim again so we'll give Lloyd the benefit of the doubt on that one and leave it at that.
But one fact that has never changed in his story is the fact that he stopped his car with the speared light pole STILL IN HIS CAR and he got help from somebody to remove it but fell down in the process.
So when we look at these pictures we must understand that the force of a 500 mph 200,000 lb airliner did NOT cause the pole to land on the ground like this:
Nope.
According to Lloyd it had to be removed from the hood of his car with the help of a stranger who he claims didn't even bother to "say a word".
Yet the hood remained unscratched.
In this NBC interview Lloyd explains how he even had to "wrestle" with the car to stop it after it was speared by the pole:
http://www.nbc4.com/news/8988021/detail.html
I had a tour of the VDOT (Virginia Dept of Transportation) on two separate occasions and they showed me the same style poles .
Here are specs:
Lloyd says the top of the pole was bent and that this is the part of the pole that was in his car while the much heavier base end was sticking out of the window.
You can see how the top part was bent in this pic:
Here is an illustration that he drew to demonstrate for us how the pole was sitting in his car after he stopped and before he and the silent stranger removed it:
The pole was 40 feet long and only the top part was severed off.
It was 247lbs.
There is no question that his claims are impossible so yes I believe it is likely that Lloyd is lying.
But I couldn't know the circumstances behind his involvement so as I said he may very well be a victim.
So for the record.......I believe 9/11 to be an inside job and I am certain at this point that operatives were used as planted witnesses at the Pentagon if only a few.
Although I have my beliefs as to some that may have been complicit I have not outright accused anyone of this.
Now that I know the plane flew on the north side of the citgo station I have been 100% verified in my belief that Lloyd's account did not happen as he claimed.
I doubt I will never know for sure if he was merely a victim or an accomplice.
For those that don't know Lloyd England was the taxicab driver whose car was allegedly speared by a light pole hit by flight 77 on 9/11.
However his account is physically impossible.
Conisder this a challenge to all jref'ers to demonstrate otherwise.
My claim about the impossibility of Lloyd's account was made after months of research & debate, physical examination of the same style light pole that allegedly speared his cab, and interviews with Lloyd himself in person.
Since this is my conclusion the logical assumption would be that Lloyd is lying.
Why he would lie I do not know and I do believe there are possible scenarios where he would remain innocent or a victim.
He could be under duress; his life, family, or livelyhood threatened.
Or it's even possible he could be manipulated mentally and not even be aware that his story is untruthful. He exhibits traits of senility which would naturally leave him more vulnerable to mental manipulation.
Bottom line.....without a doubt........his account is physically impossible.
Let's review his claims.
Here is the earliest published account that we have found:
Lloyd, Survivors' Fund Project Survivor Story
The strangest part of this account is that he got speared by the pole, stopped the car, got out, was appoached with help, started removing the pole, and THEN heard the impact.
Lloyd still keeps a torn dollar bill signed by a stranger and dated September 11, 2001. It marks a day he has struggled to survive for two years. But Lloyd’s story is different from most other Survivors’ Fund clients. His life and livelihood was changed by the path of Flight 77 before it hit the Pentagon.
Lloyd, 69, began the morning of September 11, 2001 like most days, driving his taxi cab. A passenger in Rosslyn told him what had happened at the World Trade Center so he turned on his radio and headed home. As he approached the Navy Annex, he saw a plane flying dangerously low overhead. Simultaneously, the plane struck a light pole and the pole came crashing down onto the front of Lloyd’s taxi cab, destroying the windshield in front of his eyes. Glass was everywhere as he tried to stop the car. Another car stopped and the driver helped move the heavy pole off Lloyd’s car. As they were moving the pole, they heard a big boom and turned to see an explosion. The light pole fell on Lloyd and he struggled to get up from underneath, wondering what had happened.
Police started to arrive on the scene and forced Lloyde to move. They urged the bystanders to leave the area in case there was another explosion. Lloyde was forced to abandon his car in the middle of the street to begin the long walk home. As he made his way on foot up Route 395, he met a man who had been working at the Pentagon. Walking side by side they found a dollar bill lying in the road. They picked it up, tore it in half, each signed one half and traded with each other. Parting ways each took half of a torn dollar with a stranger’s name on it. Lloyde still keeps this tangible reminder of his experience on 9/11.
Lloyde says the hardest part of his journey since 9/11 has been trying to survive without money. He realized once he got home the morning of September 11th that he would not be able to work without his car—it is his livelihood. He was without a vehicle for two months until he purchased a used car with the help of American Red Cross funds. They were the only people to come to his aid in the beginning until his daughter came across the Survivors’ Fund. With the help of his case manager and financial support from the Fund, he has been able to afford his monthly expenses, something he struggled with after 9/11. “I’m not accustomed to people helping me,” he says. “I’m amazed that there are people there just to do that.”
Lloyde tends to keep his feelings to himself. He is quiet, respectful and humble when speaking of his experiences. When asked if it helps him to talk about September 11th, he says, “I don’t know. There are things I’d like to forget.” The remnants of September 11, the reminders are all over for him but he concludes, “surviving hasn’t been easy, but it can be done.”
http://www.survivorsfundproject.org/SFPFinal/survivors_fund_project_clients/lloyd.asp
Naturally this is impossible since he was on route 27 about a few hundred feet from the Pentagon and the plane was reportedly traveling around 500 mph.
This could be written off as misinterpretation by the author of the article and Lloyd has never made that claim again so we'll give Lloyd the benefit of the doubt on that one and leave it at that.
But one fact that has never changed in his story is the fact that he stopped his car with the speared light pole STILL IN HIS CAR and he got help from somebody to remove it but fell down in the process.
So when we look at these pictures we must understand that the force of a 500 mph 200,000 lb airliner did NOT cause the pole to land on the ground like this:
Nope.
According to Lloyd it had to be removed from the hood of his car with the help of a stranger who he claims didn't even bother to "say a word".
Yet the hood remained unscratched.
In this NBC interview Lloyd explains how he even had to "wrestle" with the car to stop it after it was speared by the pole:
http://www.nbc4.com/news/8988021/detail.html
I had a tour of the VDOT (Virginia Dept of Transportation) on two separate occasions and they showed me the same style poles .
Here are specs:
Lloyd says the top of the pole was bent and that this is the part of the pole that was in his car while the much heavier base end was sticking out of the window.
You can see how the top part was bent in this pic:
Here is an illustration that he drew to demonstrate for us how the pole was sitting in his car after he stopped and before he and the silent stranger removed it:
The pole was 40 feet long and only the top part was severed off.
It was 247lbs.
There is no question that his claims are impossible so yes I believe it is likely that Lloyd is lying.
But I couldn't know the circumstances behind his involvement so as I said he may very well be a victim.
So for the record.......I believe 9/11 to be an inside job and I am certain at this point that operatives were used as planted witnesses at the Pentagon if only a few.
Although I have my beliefs as to some that may have been complicit I have not outright accused anyone of this.
Now that I know the plane flew on the north side of the citgo station I have been 100% verified in my belief that Lloyd's account did not happen as he claimed.
I doubt I will never know for sure if he was merely a victim or an accomplice.
