Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

[Big Al]

Come on, Christophera, you must remember the name... the narrator... the production company... something?

Why doesn't it phase you when everyone here thinks your "concrete core" images are terrible proof. Why can't you easily flip out a great picture from the tower construction and show us all? Surely a massive concrete core wasn't simply hidden during construction.

Chris's argument is that the authorities claimed there was a steel core because then, when they "needed" to blow it up, everyone would wonder where all the concrete chunks had gone.

Then, they tell a PBS documentary crew all about the officially top-secret concrete core and gave them detailed access to the lie. This despite the fact that everybody (including me at that time) "knew" there was a steel core.

I bet they're still kicking themselves over that one! "Look, I told you not to tell 'em all about the officially non-existent concrete core and the extra-special, anti-corrosion-coated long-life 3" rebar!" "Sorry, boss, I clean forgot!"

And yet, this secret is so well concealed that it's been under the radar for nearly forty years . . . kinda makes you wonder, don't it?

Of course, when the buildings ollapsed, nobody questioned where all the non-existent steel was, apart from some chunky rebar.

Another thing, Chris... in 1993, terrorists tried to blow up WTC1 with a subterranean explosion, trying to make it topple into WTC2. Didn't the city masters, the CIA or whomsoever go, "WHOOPPEE! Now we get an excuse to blow all that C-4! 've been wating for this chance for years!" ?

No, presumably they just said "Not good enough yet. I guess we'll need to wait a few years more, until, say, someone crashes an airliner into it. Much more convincing."

Christophera is a troll. Nothing you can say will ever change his tight-shut "mind", because it's just a big echo-chamber.

 

[JonnyFive]

Christophera is a troll. Nothing you can say will ever change his tight-shut "mind", because it's just a big echo-chamber.

Oh, I think you're right there. I'm not even sure why I bother.

Is "troll" sufficient to describe his behavior? He's been posting the same four or five pictures for over six months.

The same resistant behavior seems present in a lot of the conspiracy diehards. I guess that's what it takes to resist reality.

 

[Big Al]

Finally, I have seen the light! I now feel the need to expose the whole sorry tale of lies, deceit and Machiavellian manipulation!

The Story So Far...
1. When designing the WTC in the 1960s, the architects wanted to maximise internal space by using an innovative steel core.

2. The NY city fathers, the CIA or whomsoever, said, "No, no, we want a concrete core with all the reinforcing core wrapped in C-4, so we can blow the towers up whenever we want to."

3) Then, a bright person said, "Just a moment, guys, if we do that, it's bound to pulverise all the tens of thousands of tons of concrete utterly into dust, and everyone will wonder where it went."

4) "OK, good point. I hadn't thought of that. Better stick with the fallacious steel core story. . . Err . . . Won't they wonder about where all the steel went, Boss?" "Naah, the elevator guide rails and the undamaged 3" rebar will look like the missing core steel."

5) In 1990, the authorities gave a documentary film crew unprecedented access to footage and pictures of the towers' construction, pointing out the super-special anti-corrosion coating on the already super-thick reinforcing rebar. They told them about all the labour disputes, the strange secrecy surrounding the concrete pouring, and utterly "demolished" the famous official steel core story.

6). They were still kicking themselves weeks later: "I TOLD you not to tell them about the concrete core, you schmuck!" "Sorry, Boss, I guess I just clean forgot!"

7) With their trigger fingers having been itching for over twenty years, they must have been sorely tempted to push the button in 1993, when a terrorist group set off a subterranean explosion to try to knock WTC1 into WTC2. However, they manfully stayed their hands. "Can't I blow it up yet, Boss?" "No, I'm sorry, Chuck. We'd better wait for something better... like, say, someone crashing a couple of jetliners into them."

8) Unlike their prescience when realising they needed the explosives in the first place, and their cunning concealment of the concrete core to forestall conjecture about all the missing concrete (is that enough c's for you?), nobody said, "Excuse me, Boss, but there's no way jet kerosene will burn hot enough to damage the steel." Still, their crystal ball mighthave been out for calibration.

9) AT LAST! Finally, thirty-five years after this was all planned, the homicidal éminences grises got their wish, and joyously brought the buildings down, laughing as they did so. With their commendable foresight, they remembered their boo--boo on the 1990 documentary and swiftly wiped out any trace it had ever been broadcast. Fortunately, nobody had ever bothered to watch it.

Or so they thought...

<Cue dramatic organ stab.>

Only Christophera, the insightful and perceptive investigator, has seen the documentary (apart from his ex-wife, who has had her memory of the event wiped by the NSA), and he, alone, knows the awful truth. He remains as a lone voice, crying out for justice in a world that refuses to acknowledge his undeniable evidence.

How can anyone read that tale and remain unconvinced?

 

[Belz...]

images are as close as we get to raw evidence so by default they deserve the label

So a second-generation copy of a DVD deserves the label of original if you can't find it in stores anymore ?

 

[Unfit4Command]

Finally, I have seen the light! I now feel the need to expose the whole sorry tale of lies, deceit and Machiavellian manipulation!

The Story So Far...
1. When designing the WTC in the 1960s, the architects wanted to maximise internal space by using an innovative steel core.

2. The NY city fathers, the CIA or whomsoever, said, "No, no, we want a concrete core with all the reinforcing core wrapped in C-4, so we can blow the towers up whenever we want to."

3) Then, a bright person said, "Just a moment, guys, if we do that, it's bound to pulverise all the tens of thousands of tons of concrete utterly into dust, and everyone will wonder where it went."

4) "OK, good point. I hadn't thought of that. Better stick with the fallacious steel core story. . . Err . . . Won't they wonder about where all the steel went, Boss?" "Naah, the elevator guide rails and the undamaged 3" rebar will look like the missing core steel."

5) In 1990, the authorities gave a documentary film crew unprecedented access to footage and pictures of the towers' construction, pointing out the super-special anti-corrosion coating on the already super-thick reinforcing rebar. They told them about all the labour disputes, the strange secrecy surrounding the concrete pouring, and utterly "demolished" the famous official steel core story.

6). They were still kicking themselves weeks later: "I TOLD you not to tell them about the concrete core, you schmuck!" "Sorry, Boss, I guess I just clean forgot!"

7) With their trigger fingers having been itching for over twenty years, they must have been sorely tempted to push the button in 1993, when a terrorist group set off a subterranean explosion to try to knock WTC1 into WTC2. However, they manfully stayed their hands. "Can't I blow it up yet, Boss?" "No, I'm sorry, Chuck. We'd better wait for something better... like, say, someone crashing a couple of jetliners into them."

8) Unlike their prescience when realising they needed the explosives in the first place, and their cunning concealment of the concrete core to forestall conjecture about all the missing concrete (is that enough c's for you?), nobody said, "Excuse me, Boss, but there's no way jet kerosene will burn hot enough to damage the steel." Still, their crystal ball mighthave been out for calibration.

9) AT LAST! Finally, thirty-five years after this was all planned, the homicidal éminences grises got their wish, and joyously brought the buildings down, laughing as they did so. With their commendable foresight, they remembered their boo--boo on the 1990 documentary and swiftly wiped out any trace it had ever been broadcast. Fortunately, nobody had ever bothered to watch it.

Or so they thought...

<Cue dramatic organ stab.>

Only Christophera, the insightful and perceptive investigator, has seen the documentary (apart from his ex-wife, who has had her memory of the event wiped by the NSA), and he, alone, knows the awful truth. He remains as a lone voice, crying out for justice in a world that refuses to acknowledge his undeniable evidence.

How can anyone read that tale and remain unconvinced?

This story has me fully convinced. Good job thinking this up It all makes sense now.

 

[Belz...]

Do you have any images that show any of the 47, 1,300 foot the steel core columns at some elevation above ground clearly in the core area?

Yes.

I have an image of WTC 2 core that appears to be concrete as it bears no resemblence to steel columns.

Key word: appears.

i also have an image, raw evidence, of a section of concrete shear wall which is supporting the spire.

Fuzzy evidence, you mean.

We talk "EXPLANATION" here, for "FREE FALL" or speeds near it. I wouldn't want to stress anyone unnecessarily by trying to expain "why" when "how" has not been addressed.

Well, the fact that you think the collapse should've taken several minutes pretty much says it all. You have a deep misunderstanding of buildings and how they fall.

Yes, after 6 months you can count on the contents of the Bel brothers shrunken pantaloons being concrete, similar to your evidence for steel core columns.

Wow. Even chris is resorting to jokes, now.

This thread is dead.

 

[JonnyFive]

How can anyone read that tale and remain unconvinced?

I know I can't, I've finally seen the light!

Wait a minute, it just seems more ridiculous now than ever. The light is fading, fading, faaaaadingggg...

...please post detailed info about the PBS documentary, Christophera, you're my only hope!

 

[uruk]

The issue of torsion and the square tower shear wals is actually obvious to most people once they think about it.

How can an inner bunch of steel vertical elements begin to provide more resistence to twisting than 4 perimeter shear walls that are as dense as the 22 inch center to center spacing of the towers when the outer dimensions of the inner bunch of columns is around 1/2 the dimensions of the square walls????.

Read here!
http://web.mit.edu/civenv/wtc/PDFfiles/Chapter I History.pdf

Go to page 6 of the PDF file and start reading from the 2nd paragraph.

In case your to lazy to read the PDF:
"The World Trade Center Towers used a type of perimeter tube structure along with an interior steel frame to resist the lateral shear and moment imposed on it by the accumulated wind pressure. Both the frame and the perimiter tube also contributed to transferring the internal loads of the building down to the foundations."

Explination:
It was the whole system of the perimiter tube and the core frame being connected by the floor structure that provided resistance to twisting and torsion.

From the linked PDF:
"The floors tied together the exterior perimeter columns and the interior steel frame to resist twisting, or torsion, of the tower."

 

[Belz...]

Lying to children is dispicable.

The ones in Canada that knew of the concrete core had it right tho.

Just because they agree with you doesn't mean they're right.

I've dealt with the images as raw evidence issue.

And of course that establishes that I do have raw evidence of the core, and that evidence is redundant.

No, it doesn't, because images are NOT RAW, no matter how much you want them to be.

My redundant evidence has not been resonably explained as anything but concrete

I believe someone here said it could also be dust. Oh, that was you.

meaning that the core must be concrete by default

False dichotomy.

This is a fact also because the steel core columns are never seen where they should be

They are, and they're mislabeled by the steel core deniers.

Next, the issue of near free fall and pulverization.

Non issue: no free fall, no pulverisation. This must be the 50th time I told you.

The image of a pulverized concrete debris wave is irrefutable

Except you can clearly see larger pieces of concrete. Only circular reasoning can lead someone to claim they're from a different building.

Since almost nothing was identifiable in the ground zero debris, the issue of pulverization is quite absolute.

Please stop using terms like "absolute", "irrefutable" and "undeniable". They don't prove anything.

I don't know that what you say makes sense in this case.

Fact-checking, chris. If they don't know what happened, why trust them ?

It is absurd to think of a wall 1,300 feet tall that is the same thickness at the top than the bottom.

Why ?

The core walls were not load bearing walls for the most part.

Oh, so that was circular reasoning, AGAIN, on your part. Got it.

In one sense, I admit you are right. If professionals were to loose their fear and begin to examine real evidence and provide commentary on it, that would be quite meaningful.

Again, you have no evidence of said fear. You simply interpret that it exists.

laymen providing competent interpretations of the strucutre that DID EXIST are far more useful to the process of sharing truth.

No, because said laymen don't know how buildings are made and destroyed any more than they did BEFORE. Ergo, they aren't more competent NOW.

Find experts who agree with you. Not children. EXPERTS.

 

[Belz...]

Are you going to compete with Belz for "All seeing galactic seer" title.

Impossible. Caster level differences.

Your gross exaggeration of what is possible with hypnosis shows your ignorance of the human mind.

No, it shows that you rely of hollywoodish conceptions of the mind and of hypnosis.

Not the best way to accumulate knowledge.

 

[Bell]

Impossible. Caster level differences.

Oi!!

 

[uruk]

Particuarly when there is NO plan available showing how they are connected and braced. Notice NONE of BV's nor Farseitects images show any diagonal bracing of the supposed columns they attempt to evidence with misrepresented images.

Read this PDF file.:
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NISTNCSTAR1-2ADraft.pdf

Go to pages 36,37,39,40,41,42,43,44,53,67,68,70,82,97,105,1124,126,127,128,129, and 176 (PDF pages)


P.S. By the looks of the images of the NIST report, it seems that the NIST had VERY detailed plans of the towers.

 

[uruk]

That is an image of the framework of the interior box columns extended up ove rthe concret ecore being cast below. False floors are installed for the elevator guide rail installation crews to work on while guide rail support steel is lowered into position and aligned.

The elevator crews had priority, or, whatever would get the elevators up another few floors sooner was what the rest of the crews were working on. Every 80 feet or so, the concrete core HAD TO CATCH UP by the engineers specifications but until that point was reached the guide rail supports were installed and aligned and temporarily braced to the interior box columns.

After that the false floors were removed and the breakdown steel inner forms were set and outer form wood was placed against the inside of the interior box columns, (the building floors and perimeter columns would be in place by this time) and another 40 feet of concrete core was cast.

Those aren't elevator guide rails. They are too big. Look at the floor plans, the elevators are nowhere near those columns. If you really are in construction you'd know that the guide rails go up after the shaft has been built because the rails go inside the shaft.
Tell you what. prove to me that those are elevator rail guides. show me "raw evidence" that there are elevator rail guides that big.

 

[Z]

He probably found them the same place he found all that 3" and 6" (!) rebar...

 

[Big Al]

Read here!
http://web.mit.edu/civenv/wtc/PDFfiles/Chapter I History.pdf

Go to page 6 of the PDF file and start reading from the 2nd paragraph.

In case your to lazy to read the PDF:
"The World Trade Center Towers used a type of perimeter tube structure along with an interior steel frame to resist the lateral shear and moment imposed on it by the accumulated wind pressure. Both the frame and the perimiter tube also contributed to transferring the internal loads of the building down to the foundations."

Explination:
It was the whole system of the perimiter tube and the core frame being connected by the floor structure that provided resistance to twisting and torsion.

From the linked PDF:
"The floors tied together the exterior perimeter columns and the interior steel frame to resist twisting, or torsion, of the tower."

Christophera will just throw mud at Professor Fernandez like he did at the article written by Professor Eagar I posted yesterday. Anyway, they're both at MIT. That's gotta be proof of collusion.

 

[Big Al]

I know I can't, I've finally seen the light!

Wait a minute, it just seems more ridiculous now than ever. The light is fading, fading, faaaaadingggg...

...please post detailed info about the PBS documentary, Christophera, you're my only hope!

Damn! And I was so close! Would it help to sway you back to the side of truth if I said that over an hour after the aircraft struck, with only feeble gravity acting on the building, the buildings would have toppled over sideways? Gravity can't possibly pull things straight down: as we know, "what goes up must come down at a tangent."

AAAAGH! Now I'm having doubts again! Why did they wait a bloody HOUR to blow the buildings, if the jet fires couldn't have caused it? Why didn't they blow them immediately after the impacts?

..... No. Gotta stay focused. It's real. It's true. I believe...

 

[uruk]

Christophera will just throw mud at Professor Fernandez like he did at the article written by Professor Eagar I posted yesterday. Anyway, they're both at MIT. That's gotta be proof of collusion.

Yea, He takes the word of highschoolers over that of college professors simply on the sole criteria that they agree with him.

 

[uruk]

Damn! And I was so close! Would it help to sway you back to the side of truth if I said that over an hour after the aircraft struck, with only feeble gravity acting on the building, the buildings would have toppled over sideways? Gravity can't possibly pull things straight down: as we know, "what goes up must come down at a tangent."

AAAAGH! Now I'm having doubts again! Why did they wait a bloody HOUR to blow the buildings, if the jet fires couldn't have caused it? Why didn't they blow them immediately after the impacts?

..... No. Gotta stay focused. It's real. It's true. I believe...

Come on. You know it's like dominoes or bowling pins. Something hits it near the top, it goes falling over. See there! irrefutable logic! The rawest of raw evidence! It's dripping with the red jucies of truth! Incorruptable by the salmonella of denial! And like totaly hungered by the wombats of the truth starved.

 

[Big Al]

Come on. You know it's like dominoes or bowling pins. Something hits it near the top, it goes falling over. See there! irrefutable logic! The rawest of raw evidence! It's dripping with the red jucies of truth! Incorruptable by the salmonella of denial! And like totaly hungered by the wombats of the truth starved.

Yes... I bleeve ... I bleeve ...

Words are all that matters. Words and the faith that what you know is true, no matter what.

I will never leave this hazy Nirvana Christophera has created for us!

 

[Belz...]

THIS is not a collapse.

Yes, it is. You have ONE still picture of a complex collapse event. You might want to CHECK THE VIDEOS.

They appear quite a bit smaller as those in the distance on the perimeter appear about the same size but are perhaps 3 times the distance away.

Key word: appear. You're just making this stuff up, aren't you ?

You have certainly found the best image to date with columns in the core are that appear close to the same size.

The image of the "MASSIVE BOX COLUMNS" shows more of the columns and the downward angle allow a better evaluation of the end sections which show a smaller vertical piece of steel.

Of course, if there WAS a concrete core a few stories below the top of the tower, the fact that the whole thing was basically transparent means that people would've seen it.

The issue of the core core columns logically being of the strongest elements of the towers but not showing up in the demo images is a problem for the case you try to make despite what images you produce showing vertical steel in the core area.

That's because you think structural steel is invincible. Not so.

You fellows are not reading my web site.

Drivel isn't worth my time.

are not the same core columns he claims to show in his previous posts. Some web sites show H-beams in the uppper core areas. Liars should get their stories straight.

Oh, so now we're no longer hypnotised, we're liars ?

Who should get his stories straight, now ?