Suzanne Somers Promotes "Bioidenticals"

[Chris Haynes]

Yeah, I don't think she's a credible critic. It looks like she is in competition with T. S. Wiley.

Linda

One of the reasons I posted this:

.... Then I found this editorial (Pubmed also indexes non-peer reviewed stuff like letters and editorials):
http://www.menopause.org.au/public/media_detail.asp?ID=72
It ends with this comment:

...

Erg... the comment didn't come through... But I think I'll post a different quote (since it ties in with the warning about a lawyer from Sophia8!):

Medical negligence could be claimed:​

• If you were unaware of the published risks of the hormones in your prescription;​
  
  
  [*]
  If you have not fully informed your patient of these risks; ​
  
  
  [*]
  If you were unaware of known drug interactions for these products;​
  
  
  [*]
  If you were unsure of the appropriate hormonal mixtures and doses you prescribed;​
  
  
  [*]
  If there is no supporting peer-reviewed academic data for your therapeutic regimen;​
  
  
  [*]
  If you had given the impression to the patient that ‘bioidentical hormones’ were safe.​

Edit to add: Could someone pass me some popcorn?


Thanks!

 

[nraden]

I said:

"Is anyone here interested in getting to the bottom of this or this just a fun game people who have nothing better to do? I've already agreed that I've made some errors, conceded some points. I'm trying to have a real discussion. Is anyone else? "

What I got was:

Go ◊◊◊◊ yourself

I'm not interested in your invective and abuse. Not one person here added a single useful fact to this interchange. You people aren't interested in a discussion, you just want to have fun at others' expense because you have worthless lives, otherwise you wouldn't have time for this auto-eroticism you engage in. What a bunch of self-congratulatory, smug a**holes.

I don't have time for it. Have fun with debv, she's one of you.

Respond as you wish, I won't be seeing it.

 

[ponderingturtle]

How come when people see everyone against them and they basicly have two options

1. Realize that they might be wrong or
2. Go on about how everyone is working against them

Why is it that 90% of the time, at least, they go with option 2?

 

[Hellbound]

I'm not interested in your invective and abuse.

The you shouldn't have started with it. I simply gave what I got...with a bit of interest.

Not one person here added a single useful fact to this interchange.

Quite true, you should have led by example.

You people aren't interested in a discussion, you just want to have fun at others' expense because you have worthless lives, otherwise you wouldn't have time for this auto-eroticism you engage in.

Half right, I wanted to have fun at the expense of an unethical, immorral conman who, by his own admission (that those on the protocol are okay so it's been tested) agrees with performing uncontrolled medical trials of untested therapies on unsuspecting patients. Apparently, you get off on making a profit regardless of who it puts into danger. Not to mention the extreme hubris of believeing you know more than, say, the vast majority of the medical community, along with biologists of all sorts, who, you know, actually study and research these things.

What a bunch of self-congratulatory, smug a**holes.

Yes, but at least we don't test potentially dangerous therapies on others, without informing them we're testing or that the results are uncertain.

I don't have time for it.

Yet you have time to promote your quackery on random internet sites.

Have fun with debv, she's one of you.

I doubt that, she just seems to be a competitor...although I don't care enough to look into it at this point. Time will tell.

Respond as you wish, I won't be seeing it.

Never needed your permission to respond as I wished before, don't see that it's needed now. Feel free to take your toys and go home.

ETA: By the way, generalize much?

Many people here tried to have a serious discussion, you simply avoided their posts and threw up a lot of unsubstantiated garbage. Don't paint everyone witht the same brush; I have been perfectly up front about my intentions, and last I checked the "Add Huntsman to your ignore list" option still comes up if you click on my username.

 

[Ducky]

Interesting. nraden makes a claim that giving hormones to cancer patients is unprecedented, he is shown wrong, and decides to ignore it and throw adhoms about.

Well, no I guess that's par for the course.

 

[debv]

Have fun with debv, she's one of you.

I think that's the nicest thing Neil Raden has ever said about me.

I doubt that, she just seems to be a competitor...although I don't care enough to look into it at this point. Time will tell.

I'm sorry? A competitor to whom?

In countering the pro-Wiley propaganda, I guess I'm a competitor. But I make my living in the computer field and do not endorse anyone offering alternatives to the Wiley Protocol. (I've been asked to put reciprocating links on my site and have declined for this reason.)

 

[Hellbound]

I think that's the nicest thing Neil Raden has ever said about me.


I'm sorry? A competitor to whom?

In countering the pro-Wiley propaganda, I guess I'm a competitor. But I make my living in the computer field and do not endorse anyone offering alternatives to the Wiley Protocol. (I've been asked to put reciprocating links on my site and have declined for this reason.)

Then my apologies, I was simply going from comments others had made. As I said, I wasn't concerned, and time will tell

Again, sorry for the implication. At least I did say I hadn't looked into it...

 

[Ducky]

Don't feel insulted deb, Huntsman still thinks I am Britney Spears' husband. He never looks into anything.

 

[Hellbound]

I do apologize, debv. I was merely making sure my posterior rectal region was suitably overhung with protective measures, and as I had not looked at anything on your site (recognizing nraden's BS for what it was already) I had no idea what you might have claimed or not. SOme others here apparently thought you might simply be off on a differnet woo tangent, so I wanted to make sure I was clear that I had no idea what you were claiming.

I will submit myself to 50 lashes this evening in pennance...gien by my wife, dressed in black leather, with a lot of handcuffs. Believe me, I'll be suitably chastised

By the way, fowlsound, speaking of your wife Brit...you STILL haven't given me the pictures I sent you $100 for...

 

[Ducky]

I do apologize, debv. I was merely making sure my posterior rectal region was suitably overhung with protective measures, and as I had not looked at anything on your site (recognizing nraden's BS for what it was already) I had no idea what you might have claimed or not. SOme others here apparently thought you might simply be off on a differnet woo tangent, so I wanted to make sure I was clear that I had no idea what you were claiming.

I will submit myself to 50 lashes this evening in pennance...gien by my wife, dressed in black leather, with a lot of handcuffs. Believe me, I'll be suitably chastised

By the way, fowlsound, speaking of your wife Brit...you STILL haven't given me the pictures I sent you $100 for...

That's because Claus paid 500.

 

[fls]

SOme others here apparently thought you might simply be off on a differnet woo tangent, so I wanted to make sure I was clear that I had no idea what you were claiming.

If you were talking about my post:

"Originally Posted by JJM
But, seriously, I note that debv refers to Erika Schwartz (MD) as an opponent of Wiley. However, Dr. S has her own form of bioidentical hormone therapy (as I recall), and my understanding is that all of it is hokum.

Yeah, I don't think she's a credible critic. It looks like she is in competition with T. S. Wiley.

Linda"

I was referring to Dr. Erika Schwartz. Now that I look at what I said, it leaves room for interpretation and could be taken as referring to Debv. I'm sorry for not making that clearer - it was inadvertent.

Linda

 

[debv]

No worries. It's a reasonable question to consider -- that I might be a competitor or bait for one. I was afraid I may have done something to buoy such a suspicion -- and that would be a mistake to correct post-haste!

(I do cooperate with some who may be considered competitors. As long as I suspect no dishonesty or other unsavoriness, then to the extent that we want Wiley stopped, we are provisional allies. And only to that extent.)

 

[Katana]

How come when people see everyone against them and they basicly have two options

1. Realize that they might be wrong or
2. Go on about how everyone is working against them

Why is it that 90% of the time, at least, they go with option 2?

They're used to dealing with frightened, confused women whose vulnerabilities they can exploit. They despicably perpetuate the fear and mistrust of physicians in their pursuit of commercial gain and notoriety while portraying themselves as some sort of saviors.

I'm not interested in your invective and abuse. Not one person here added a single useful fact to this interchange. You people aren't interested in a discussion, you just want to have fun at others' expense because you have worthless lives, otherwise you wouldn't have time for this auto-eroticism you engage in. What a bunch of self-congratulatory, smug a**holes.

What's that they say about the pot calling the kettle black?

What he doesn't realize is that it is not fun to deal with people such as himself. It would have been more fun had he actually been able to support his claims, had had some knowledge of medicine, and didn't throw around insults about health care professionals that are rooted evidently in little more than his own personal bias against them either because he truly believes them or because he sees docs in competitition with him for the HRT kitty.

I enjoy discussing health care topics and having engaging debate. It is quite obvious that nraden was not interested in the same and is not used to being confronted with the fact that the claims he makes are either unsupported, completely unfounded, or directedly contradicted by the literature. Admittedly, I would be a bit surprised if this were the case because I would think that he had stepped into forums like this already. Then again, maybe not.

 

[kellyb]

Wow. I just read this whole thread.
Katana and fls...you guys ROCK!

Weirdly, the idea of fluctuating hormone levels to mimic nature doesn't sound like a bad idea...but super-massive-estrogen-doses for everyone?
"Have faith! I've got lots of anecdotes that it's perfectly safe!"
Whaaa???

I'm honestly surprised nobody's gotten killed by this yet. Seriously. And to pretend like it's "safe" by virtue of being natural?
How is that not intentional deception if you know anything at all about hormones?

The hypocrisy is just breathtaking. I've honestly never seen anything like it before.

 

[debv]

I'm honestly surprised nobody's gotten killed by this yet. Seriously.

Would we know if they had?

Women have joined the Rhythmic Living discussion group desperate, on the verge of suicide, with their hair fallling out in brushfuls and a litany of other problems. I would be a bit surprised if there haven't been any suicides yet.

If anyone wants to see Wiley in action, here's some video excerpted from a support meeting. In these meetings, Wiley reviews the adverse effects women are experiencing, blames them on anything but the protocol, and then tells them how to adjust their dosages. It's where she gets to play doctor and spin doctor, all at the same time.

I particularly like the whitewash that if you're suffering, that's great -- it means your brain thinks you're still alive!

wileywatch.org/node/14

(Sorry, still can't post links.)

 

[JJM]

If anyone wants to see Wiley in action, here's some video excerpted from a support meeting. In these meetings, Wiley reviews the adverse effects women are experiencing, blames them on anything but the protocol, and then tells them how to adjust their dosages. It's where she gets to play doctor and spin doctor, all at the same time.

I particularly like the whitewash that if you're suffering, that's great -- it means your brain thinks you're still alive!

wileywatch.org/node/14

(Sorry, still can't post links.)

Here: http://www.wileywatch.org/node/14

 

[Katana]

Wow. I just read this whole thread.
Katana and fls...you guys ROCK!

Weirdly, the idea of fluctuating hormone levels to mimic nature doesn't sound like a bad idea...but super-massive-estrogen-doses for everyone?
"Have faith! I've got lots of anecdotes that it's perfectly safe!"
Whaaa???

I'm honestly surprised nobody's gotten killed by this yet. Seriously. And to pretend like it's "safe" by virtue of being natural?
How is that not intentional deception if you know anything at all about hormones?

The hypocrisy is just breathtaking. I've honestly never seen anything like it before.

Thanks, kellyb.

I've seen you in action, so that means a lot. Much appreciated.

 

[Katana]

Would we know if they had?

Women have joined the Rhythmic Living discussion group desperate, on the verge of suicide, with their hair fallling out in brushfuls and a litany of other problems. I would be a bit surprised if there haven't been any suicides yet.

If anyone wants to see Wiley in action, here's some video excerpted from a support meeting. In these meetings, Wiley reviews the adverse effects women are experiencing, blames them on anything but the protocol, and then tells them how to adjust their dosages. It's where she gets to play doctor and spin doctor, all at the same time.

I particularly like the whitewash that if you're suffering, that's great -- it means your brain thinks you're still alive!

wileywatch.org/node/14

(Sorry, still can't post links.)

Here: http://www.wileywatch.org/node/14

So she's talking to a woman who has been on Tamoxifen for breast cancer? She's got cojones. As has been pointed out, hormones have been used in breast cancer survivors, but it takes a lot of counseling and risk/benefit assessing. She isn't qualified to do either and she's advocating supraphysiologic doses of estrogen. Wha- wha- whaaat???

"The fact that you had phantom nipple pain is a beautiful thing." Wow. She's so deep.

Woman in the audience (paraphrase): "I hadn't slammed a door in 15 years, I hadn't thrown things in 5 years, I hadn't cried in 4 years."

Response: "Well, you're alive."

Oh, is that what that is?

Wiley's friend even has the nerve to say to one of the women that her ovaries might even be healthier than they were before she started on their crap. They are just unbelievable.

 

[kellyb]

I liked the analogy that it was akin to some kind of second puberty that you have to "push through".

 

[Katana]

I wonder if she even takes the stuff herself.