• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hey Chris, how did they fool this guy - he's a real professor and everything (of a proper university, too, none of your Steve Jones crap)

http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/pr...toricFires/BuildingFires/worldTradeCenter.htm
While I don't have any use for BYU (they get special dispensation from the NCAA for missions, fer cryin' out loud! ), not Michigan, nor USC, nor Notre Dame, by all definitions and criteria, BYU is indeed/b] a proper university--complete with eccentric professors (and former profsesors).
Dadblamed UKers always have to bash us, one way or another. Respect is a 2-way street, fella! Like Oxford doesn't have its share of wierdo's?:p
 
You have just proven my statement about your self-delusion, since the only one who takes your evidence seriously is yourself. Here's an idea for you. As I pointed out, you are fond of taking things out of context. Why not write any of the Phds listed on that silly little website and ask him to back your interpretation of their words. It was readily apparent to me how you are bending them, and I am no scientist, and clearly, you are not. The easy way to end this debate (such as it is, I have moderated many a debate, if I had to judge this one, I'd say you are getting creamed) is to simply produce some expert agreement for your version of the WTC.

While you are at it, ask him what raw evidence means, you look truly stupid every time you use the term, as always, out of context.

I now wait expectantly, looking forward to your dodge, and another of the endless repeats of how good your evidence is, as decided only by you.

For me, I am back to lurking, I have had to teach too many goofy first year students to debate with someone who hasn't even gotten that far.

Blah, blah, blah

Typical, no evidence of anything.

I prove the concrete core with one image.


You will be utterly unable to reasonably explain what it is if you think it is not concrete.
 
Domel's authors already admitted thier error concerning the nature of the core.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2131537&postcount=8541

Ignoring this fact is not going to make it go away.

Domel doesn't have authors that Domel has identified. And the bozo who claims to be the author is also the idiot that claims the "hammer" theory. A post on randi.org is about as far as a fact as test can get.

When it is linked to a substantial element of raw evidence that is consistent with other raw evidence, then you've got facts.

 
Your ability to identify and categorize evidence is laughable.

I prove the concrete core with one image.

What is Chris' evidence of a concrete core?

1) A video in 1990 - one that no one else (except, allegedly, his ex-wife) has ever seen, one that does not exist in the archive records at PBS or at KCET, one that does not even exist in the entire catalogue of TV-Guide for the Santa Barbara area for the year of 1990.

2) An encyclopedia entry written by a person who had, at that point, never even been to the towers, and was writing on assumption, not fact.

3) A fuzzy photograph that shows nothing definite - only an indistinct, rounded shape in the dust cloud that could be concrete, or collapsing debris, or what was left of the steel-core and bedrock-walled core, partially covered with debris from above (explaining the apparent rounded shape)...

4) Deductive reasoning (since no 1300-ft long steel sections were visible during the collapse, they must not have existed). --Which is faulty, considering no 1300-ft long 'MASSIVE BOX COLUMNS' or elevator guide rails were visible, either.

On the other hand, numerous video and photographic evidence shows steel structural columns at the worksite; debris fields show clear evidence of steel support columns, but an insufficient amount of concrete; the most accurate construction plans that are available mention steel, not concrete; and a video documentary from 1983 clearly indicates steel, not concrete.

Why does concrete matter? Because Chris erroneously believes that the steel-reinforced concrete included one additional element: plastic explosives, applied directly to the rebar.

His evidence:

1) the violent collapse pictures showing the ejection of powdery-grey matter at the initiation of collapse - which can be equally accounted for by the presence of drywall, sheetrock, the concrete in the floors themselves, the ash from all that burned office equipment, etc.

2) the apparenty excessive speed of collapse -- which he cannot prove is excessive, nor can he come up with a quantification of what is 'acceptable' versus what is not.

3) 'Total Pulverisation' of the towers - which debris evidence proves is wrong... He equivocates by claiming that observed debris came from the mall, not the towers themselves. But this, too, is wrong.

4) A magazine article in the late 70s which he claims explains the process of returning C4 to slurry state for underwater use - yet he won't divulge what magazine it was, or when he read the article.

Evidence against:

1) Shelf life of plastic explosives under OPTIMAL conditions is only between 15-20 years. He tries to get around this by claiming concrete acted as a better protectant; yet concrete during curing emits heat, is moist, and results in a material which allows more air exchange than cellophane. Further, any such material on the rebar would largely negate one of the purposes of rebar, and such a structure likely would have collapsed under natural stresses long before 2001.

2) Insufficient chemical residue to indicate the existence of plastic explosives, nor of det cord, wiring, or other apparatus.

3) No eyewitnesses over the lifespan of the towers noticed anything odd - considering that wiring for the detonators would have to extend beyond the concrete, and no one ever noticed such wiring.

The only evidence he ever offers in support comes from his own website - owned, operated, and administered by himself from his Isley St. home - and photos which lack clarity and definition, which he also hosts. For all we know, he's doctored those photos. I don't think he has, but he's never offered them in context of the locations he's gotten them from. Meanwhile, he's in flat and open denial of any contraverting evidence, including statements by construction and engineering personnel, photographs of construction, photographs of debris fields, etc. He expounds upon his own 'photographic' memory, but gets details wrong enough to really embarrass himself - if he had any shame, which he doesn't. Why should we trust his memory about concrete cores and magazine articles, when he can't remember the show's name was Ally McBeal, or the age of the mohawk he interviewed, or the station number of KCET, or anything else, really?

His memory is shot - and things he recalls from memory are suspect.

My suggestion to Chris is this: go back to worrying about the available algae contents of your local lakes and rivers. This, at least, is a real problem, with real solutions, and could benefit people. Raving for years on websites has gotten you no where at all, and never will. You're wasting your time here, while the oxygen levels of your home continue to diminish.

My suggestion to all the other participants on this thread: When you feel like replying to Chris, here, just copy and paste this or another of the good summations available, and walk away.

One fuzzy photo, easily explained, isn't 'proof'.
 
Yes raw evidence SHOULD be examined by professionals, and when they don't, they've lost their credibility. Their intentions have been compromised.

what the hell are you talking about?
What a crock of manure statement to make.
If htey dont examine the raw evidence they lost their credibilty. Give me a break

btw, 100's of professionals HAVE examined the raw evidence and have never come to the conclusions or statements you are asserting.

Thanks for proving that the professionals know what they are talking about and proving you to be a liar.
 
[Y]ou can produce no raw evidence of the steel core columns, images of them from the core area at some elevation from the demo images which make your words empty and existent only to support a lie...
Sayeth the lying liar.

Mr. Brown, how 'bout you produce "raw evidence" of 11 stories of WTC tower being heavier than 25?
 
Sayeth the lying liar.

Mr. Brown, how 'bout you produce "raw evidence" of 11 stories of WTC tower being heavier than 25?

Your request is prempted by the logic of knowing which structure stood FIRST. Logically, rates of fall, loads etc. will not matter BEFOR knowing what kind of structure stood.

I can show you what kind of structure I KNOW stood. It was a steel reinforced cast concrete core and HERE is the top of WTC 2 about to hit WTC 3. The brown grey object inside the perimeter columns IS the top of the concrete core. The cast concrete roof is easily seen.
 
what the hell are you talking about?
What a crock of manure statement to make.
If htey dont examine the raw evidence they lost their credibilty. Give me a break

btw, 100's of professionals HAVE examined the raw evidence and have never come to the conclusions or statements you are asserting.

Correct. The FEMA WTC report does not use raw evidence of images from 9-11 and neither does NIST. They use text just like you do. And it is very easy to see how things can be misrepresented with text. All one has to do is read what you write.

I use images. I say HERE IS THE CONCRETE CORE OF WTC 2. Then I link the text to an image showing raw evidence which is consistent with what I assert. it is simple, if you had any evidence you too could do it, but you don't so you just lie, supporting FEMA and NIST.

Thanks for proving that the professionals know what they are talking about and proving you to be a liar.

The professionals did not even get close to descibing rates of fall near free fall, I do and the first thing I do is prove what kind of structure stood with raw evidence of images of the actual buildings that were demolished.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

FEMA and NIST do not do this.
 
Last edited:
Correct. The FEMA WTC report does not use raw evidence of images from 9-11 and nieter does NIST. They use text just like you do. And it is very easy to see how things can be misrepresented with text. All one has to do is read what you write.

Oh so i guess the ACTUAL DEBRIS FOUND AT THE SITE isn't raw evidence at all then? So that 7 story pile of concrete, steel, wiring and metal isn't raw evidence? My god, you're beyond delusional; you are certifiable.

No, NIST and FEMA had the raw evidence (in the blue prints, the debris, the metal, the concrete, sheetrock, gypsum and the like). AND IMAGES Are not raw evidence. Which why you do not UNDERSTAND THE term.


All one has to do is read what you write and know that you are a certifiable loon.
 
What is Chris' evidence of a concrete core?

1) A video in 1990 - one that no one else (except, allegedly, his ex-wife) has ever seen, one that does not exist in the archive records at PBS or at KCET, one that does not even exist in the entire catalogue of TV-Guide for the Santa Barbara area for the year of 1990.

It's time to post this again.

How can you call that evidence? I do not. I call it EXPERIENCE which I USE to identify evidence.

This is what I mean. You attempt to identify or catagorize evidence is a joke.

You do not even list the evidence I present.

Here is evidence there was concrete. An image showing what can only be the 3 inch rebar I assert it is. Proof follows.


My opposition here is so laughable they have attempted to prove the viewer cannot see the fine vertical elements which are obviously much smaller than interior box columns shot with the same camera from the same distance a second before the rebar is exposed after the steel falls away.
 
No, NIST and FEMA had the raw evidence (in the blue prints, the debris, the metal, the concrete, sheetrock, gypsum and the like). AND IMAGES Are not raw evidence. Which why you do not UNDERSTAND THE term.

You are so pitifully uninformed is is incredible that you attempt your deceptions.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/blueprints.html

Incredibly, FEMA's team that investigated the collapses lacked access to the buildings' blueprints -- access which has been the subject of legal battles.


And BTW, I have copies of the master plan.

World Trade Center Master Plan

While detailed engineering drawings of the World Trade Center remain unavailable, 9-11 Research has been able to obtain drawings of the MASTER PLAN, dated December 16, 1963.


They do not have any details on the core and are 3 years before construction began.
 
Chris,

I'll ask you again: WHY DID WHOEVER-IT-WAS THINK IT WAS A GREAT IDEA TO LINE THE WTC WITH EXPLOSIVES, 30 YEARS BEFORE BLOWING IT UP? JUST IN CASE A BUNCH OF RELIGIOUS FANATICS MIGHT CHOOSE TO CRASH A COUPLE OF PLANES INTO THEM?

WHY DID THEY EVEN EXPECT THE EXPLOSIVES TO WORK AFTER DOUBLE THEIR STORAGE LIFE?

DID THEY HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL OR SOMETHING?
 
And why have they daringly stated in advance that Freedom Tower will have a concrete core? Aren't they taking the risk people will wonder about the pulverisation when they have to blow that up in 2046, as an excuse to invade some other country, as yet unknown?
 
You are so pitifully uninformed is is incredible that you attempt your deceptions.
you are so incredibly delusional, you should be institutionalized before you think that kids around you are "out to get you".

BTW, that 911 research site, has been known to NEVER update what is outdated information. Considering that the REAL ESTATE companies had blueprints of each FLOOR so they COULD RENT OUT THAT SPACE to interested companies, proves that site wrong yet again!

And BTW, I have copies of the master plan.
Oh that is a world class lie. YOU do not have access to no such thing.

They do not have any details on the core and are 3 years before construction began.
and why should it. THAT WAS 3 years before construction.
With every post you make, Christopherea, you lie takes on new details and the deeper the hole you are digging. Have you reached china yet?

Seeing as your photographic memory has been to shown to have more holes than swiss cheese, your claims are again figments of your delusional imagination.
 
Last edited:
And why have they daringly stated in advance that Freedom Tower will have a concrete core? Aren't they taking the risk people will wonder about the pulverisation when they have to blow that up in 2046, as an excuse to invade some other country, as yet unknown?

Perhaps they're really building it without a concrete core. CONSPIRACY!


I assert a concrete core. Where there is concrete there is rebar.

I have evidence, you do not.

Could you please post some new pictures. You've been showing the same four or five for the past 200 pages. I suppose they're supposed to floor us all, but they really don't.

I'm not stupid enough to think that anything anyone could every possibly say will ever change your mind, because you're sure you know THE TRUTH, but at least show some different photographic evidence of STEEL REBAR and CONCRETE CORE and all those other capitalized things. You must have mountains of it, right?
 
You must have mountains of it, right?

If he did, he would have brought a lawsuite already. The fact that he doesn't bring a lawsuite, means that he is sitting on "evidence" and dishonoring those who were murdered that day.


Or that his evidence is ONLY of those 12 or so photographs, which doesn't prove anything that he claims.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom