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Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

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We do not need professionals when we have raw evidence. Experience helps tho.

http://algoxy.com/conc/core.html


What are professionals, Chris? By definition, they are people who are EXPERIENCED in their fields of study, and can give their EXPERT opinion on subjects that have direct knowledge of.

So, stating that you dont need professionals, then add that experience helps, is hypocratic. YOu can't have it both ways.


YOU dont have experience. Raw evidence SHOULD only be examined and interpreted by professionals. Since you're not a professional and are not experienced to give opinions on "raw" evidence, you should take down your page of lies and hearsay, and leave it to the EXPERIENCED to interpret.

The only thing you've shwon yourself to professional at is lying.
 
You waste bandwidth, space and time.

Interesting what you consider good use of bandwidth.

I think I've realized what this thread is. Christopher has created a phrase generator that randomly replies to posts with arbitrary strings of words from some database on his website. This explains the non sequiturs that appear in most of his posts. Every once in a while, the words align properly but mostly they just show links to his site or question our ability to find the truth. Christopher has been off on the beach while everyone debates his with computer.

G
 
Raw evidence SHOULD only be examined and interpreted by professionals.

Yes raw evidence SHOULD be examined by professionals, and when they don't, they've lost their credibility. Their intentions have been compromised.

When a batch of "professionals" make a report and ignore something like this.


Then all the other professionals are afraid to comment something is very wrong. I know this from experience and there ARE NO PROFESSIONALS professionals in this area of understanding this specific kind of corruption.

Basically we have a situation where professionals are useless. Go ahead, try and find one that will personally comment on the above image and apply his "professional seal".
 
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The number of victims being wrong means quite a lot. It shows he wasn't very thorough fact-checking details oblique to his main interest (emergency preparedness).

He was wrong as to the number of victims, and he was misinformed as to the existence of a concrete core.

By the way, Chris, since his account of the collapses differs from yours, should we accept his "expert" testimony over yours? No controlled demolition; no explosives? You can't have it both ways.

Check my last post. Professionals are useless in this situation.

Domel used information from engineers at ground zero to make his report. They said concrete core he used that. They said collapse he used that.

Concrete core agrees with the raw evidence. Collapse does not.

All information from professionals and experts must qualify by comparison to raw evidence and only those people involved with this discusson are qualified and only those that reasonably, logically use evidence are accepetable for inclusion if the preservation of the US Constitution is the goal.
 
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Just thought I'd mention to any of those who haven't read the cute little website he so frequently references, you should give it a look. Read the Phd references they have. Oddly enough, they post these references when only one line sounds similar to anything they (particularly true with regards to this young man's arguments) might say. The funniest part is that are clear answers to this thread's title question in most of them, and none of them agree with him. I guess I shouldn't be that surprised from someone who thinks a photograph is raw evidence, but is a good chuckle nonethless.
 
You waste bandwidth, space and time.
.

Wow..this is honestly funny. This is coming from someone who has posted the exact same images and links dozens and dozens of times.

That will not answer simple questions about the added resistence to torsion that core columns give to a square set of perimeter shear walls.

And this comes from someone who will not answer a simple question about what it would take to change his beliefs.

Professionals are useless in this situation.

Damn. All that schooling gone to waste. I should have spent the money on a few hi-res photographs, instead.
 
Christophera said:
You waste bandwidth, space and time.

Wow..this is honestly funny. This is coming from someone who has posted the exact same images and links dozens and dozens of times.

Yes, in an effort to gain reasonable. logical, responsible responses from others who do not WANT to know the truth.

Christophera said:
That will not answer simple questions about the added resistence to torsion that core columns give to a square set of perimeter shear walls.

And this comes from someone who will not answer a simple question about what it would take to change his beliefs.

I've stated it almost 2000 times. Show me clear pictures of steel core columns at some elevation above ground from the demo images. Everyone has failed in this. Farsitect won't answer because the truth is steel core columns DO nothing to strengthen a square set of perimeter shear walls against torsion. Steel in those proportons flexs too much. You need something ridgid to stop the flex of torsion and lateral sway from deforming the pereimter walls and leaving the maximum load bearing dimensions causing failures.

Damn. All that schooling gone to waste. I should have spent the money on a few hi-res photographs, instead.

The photos are free, your brain (we assume) is yours to control. Put it to work for its natural purposes.
 
Just thought I'd mention to any of those who haven't read the cute little website he so frequently references, you should give it a look. Read the Phd references they have. Oddly enough, they post these references when only one line sounds similar to anything they (particularly true with regards to this young man's arguments) might say. The funniest part is that are clear answers to this thread's title question in most of them, and none of them agree with him. I guess I shouldn't be that surprised from someone who thinks a photograph is raw evidence, but is a good chuckle nonethless.

Yes, that is my point. One line "CONCRETE CORE" is the same across many web sites. But we have 3 different floor places for the "supposed" steel core columned core and the plans have NEVER been released.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/blueprints.html

Now we know why. To enable a lie.

The towers had a concrete core.
 
Christophera, do you actuallty have REAL evidence, beside your assumptions and 'logical conclusions'?

That has been my question to you for over 200 pages now. My real evidence has been prevailing over your assumptions and the "supposed 'logical conclusions' of your bought and paid for experts/professonals.

If this was not true you and yours would not return over and over again to throw your pitiful assumptions and faulty logic against the hard evidence of the steel reinforced, cast tubular concrete core.

How does it feel to be so wrong for the wrong reasons?
 
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That has been my question to you for over 200 pages now. My real evidence has been prevailing over your assumptions and the "supposed 'logical conclusions' of your bought and paid for experts/professonals.

If this was not true you and yours would not return over and over again to throw your pitiful assumptions and faulty logical against the hard evidence of the steel reinforced, cast tubular concrete core.

How does it feel to be so wrong for the wrong reasons?


I, once again, demand a nomination for comedy posts. It is rare you see someone so self-deluded, he really deserves some sort of award, and a strait-jacket.
 
I, once again, demand a nomination for comedy posts. It is rare you see someone so self-deluded, he really deserves some sort of award, and a strait-jacket.

Easy to say.

But you can produce no raw evidence of the steel core columns, images of them from the core area at some elevation from the demo images which make your words empty and existent only to support a lie.

I assert a concrete core. Where there is concrete there is rebar.

I have evidence, you do not.
 
Easy to say.

But you can produce no raw evidence of the steel core columns, images of them from the core area at some elevation from the demo images which make your words empty and existent only to support a lie.

I assert a concrete core. Where there is concrete there is rebar.

I have evidence, you do not.

You have just proven my statement about your self-delusion, since the only one who takes your evidence seriously is yourself. Here's an idea for you. As I pointed out, you are fond of taking things out of context. Why not write any of the Phds listed on that silly little website and ask him to back your interpretation of their words. It was readily apparent to me how you are bending them, and I am no scientist, and clearly, you are not. The easy way to end this debate (such as it is, I have moderated many a debate, if I had to judge this one, I'd say you are getting creamed) is to simply produce some expert agreement for your version of the WTC.

While you are at it, ask him what raw evidence means, you look truly stupid every time you use the term, as always, out of context.

I now wait expectantly, looking forward to your dodge, and another of the endless repeats of how good your evidence is, as decided only by you.

For me, I am back to lurking, I have had to teach too many goofy first year students to debate with someone who hasn't even gotten that far.
 
What is Chris' evidence of a concrete core?

1) A video in 1990 - one that no one else (except, allegedly, his ex-wife) has ever seen, one that does not exist in the archive records at PBS or at KCET, one that does not even exist in the entire catalogue of TV-Guide for the Santa Barbara area for the year of 1990.

2) An encyclopedia entry written by a person who had, at that point, never even been to the towers, and was writing on assumption, not fact.

3) A fuzzy photograph that shows nothing definite - only an indistinct, rounded shape in the dust cloud that could be concrete, or collapsing debris, or what was left of the steel-core and bedrock-walled core, partially covered with debris from above (explaining the apparent rounded shape)...

4) Deductive reasoning (since no 1300-ft long steel sections were visible during the collapse, they must not have existed). --Which is faulty, considering no 1300-ft long 'MASSIVE BOX COLUMNS' or elevator guide rails were visible, either.

On the other hand, numerous video and photographic evidence shows steel structural columns at the worksite; debris fields show clear evidence of steel support columns, but an insufficient amount of concrete; the most accurate construction plans that are available mention steel, not concrete; and a video documentary from 1983 clearly indicates steel, not concrete.

Why does concrete matter? Because Chris erroneously believes that the steel-reinforced concrete included one additional element: plastic explosives, applied directly to the rebar.

His evidence:

1) the violent collapse pictures showing the ejection of powdery-grey matter at the initiation of collapse - which can be equally accounted for by the presence of drywall, sheetrock, the concrete in the floors themselves, the ash from all that burned office equipment, etc.

2) the apparenty excessive speed of collapse -- which he cannot prove is excessive, nor can he come up with a quantification of what is 'acceptable' versus what is not.

3) 'Total Pulverisation' of the towers - which debris evidence proves is wrong... He equivocates by claiming that observed debris came from the mall, not the towers themselves. But this, too, is wrong.

4) A magazine article in the late 70s which he claims explains the process of returning C4 to slurry state for underwater use - yet he won't divulge what magazine it was, or when he read the article.

Evidence against:

1) Shelf life of plastic explosives under OPTIMAL conditions is only between 15-20 years. He tries to get around this by claiming concrete acted as a better protectant; yet concrete during curing emits heat, is moist, and results in a material which allows more air exchange than cellophane. Further, any such material on the rebar would largely negate one of the purposes of rebar, and such a structure likely would have collapsed under natural stresses long before 2001.

2) Insufficient chemical residue to indicate the existence of plastic explosives, nor of det cord, wiring, or other apparatus.

3) No eyewitnesses over the lifespan of the towers noticed anything odd - considering that wiring for the detonators would have to extend beyond the concrete, and no one ever noticed such wiring.

The only evidence he ever offers in support comes from his own website - owned, operated, and administered by himself from his Isley St. home - and photos which lack clarity and definition, which he also hosts. For all we know, he's doctored those photos. I don't think he has, but he's never offered them in context of the locations he's gotten them from. Meanwhile, he's in flat and open denial of any contraverting evidence, including statements by construction and engineering personnel, photographs of construction, photographs of debris fields, etc. He expounds upon his own 'photographic' memory, but gets details wrong enough to really embarrass himself - if he had any shame, which he doesn't. Why should we trust his memory about concrete cores and magazine articles, when he can't remember the show's name was Ally McBeal, or the age of the mohawk he interviewed, or the station number of KCET, or anything else, really?

His memory is shot - and things he recalls from memory are suspect.

My suggestion to Chris is this: go back to worrying about the available algae contents of your local lakes and rivers. This, at least, is a real problem, with real solutions, and could benefit people. Raving for years on websites has gotten you no where at all, and never will. You're wasting your time here, while the oxygen levels of your home continue to diminish.

My suggestion to all the other participants on this thread: When you feel like replying to Chris, here, just copy and paste this or another of the good summations available, and walk away.

It's time to post this again.
 
Check my last post. Professionals are useless in this situation.

Domel used information from engineers at ground zero to make his report. They said concrete core he used that. They said collapse he used that.

Concrete core agrees with the raw evidence. Collapse does not.

All information from professionals and experts must qualify by comparison to raw evidence and only those people involved with this discusson are qualified and only those that reasonably, logically use evidence are accepetable for inclusion if the preservation of the US Constitution is the goal.

Domel's authors already admitted thier error concerning the nature of the core.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2131537&postcount=8541

Ignoring this fact is not going to make it go away.
 
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