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Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

The god in whom Hunster purports to believe is claimed to be omnipotent and interested in the minute details of this world (when a sparrow falls...). If he is responsible for anything that occurs here, he is responsible for all of it by any of your reasons. Strict liability, since he is claimed to have created the man who beats his wife, applies, and I believe the more general liability as well. Since believers claim god is responsible for good things like curing someone of cancer, it is reasonable to claim he is also responsible for the bad things.
 
Freethinker said:
The god in whom Hunster purports to believe is claimed to be omnipotent and interested in the minute details of this world (when a sparrow falls...). If he is responsible for anything that occurs here, he is responsible for all of it by any of your reasons. Strict liability, since he is claimed to have created the man who beats his wife, applies, and I believe the more general liability as well. Since believers claim god is responsible for good things like curing someone of cancer, it is reasonable to claim he is also responsible for the bad things.
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Do you give him credit when good things happen? He's either responsible for everything that happens, or none of it. Cherry-picking is not allowed.
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Given your absolutist comment, I wanted to see what was behind it. Thank you for expanding on that.

your reasons
You presume a great deal.

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
Given your absolutist comment, I wanted to see what was behind it. Thank you for expanding on that.

your reasons
You presume a great deal.

DR
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If I am presuming, then what is your take? Is god responsible for only the good things that happen?
 
There is a far more effective method for analysing preposterous messages that this culture promotes however it is promoted. That is the understanding that ignorance is not voluntary....nor is a quality education. It only becomes apparant and a reality when the question of free will is supported. Human beings are either victims of benefactors of their environments with those measures having many shades of grey in between and throughout their lives. Holding humans responsible for their actions or giving them credit only serves to support religion and the notion of special qualities. People who purport to understand the concept of reason and support it's tenets cannot, regardless of the quality of their reasoning abilities, figure out the problems that they are confronted with unless they have been conditioned by the world they live in to inquire, research, and gather information that is related to the problem or to their evaluatory approach to the question. Infants, children, students and adult human beings cannot learn and inquire unless they have been given an environment that does promote the interests necessary for a quality education. Gods and ghosts are only excuses and reasons for a human being's sense of self worth and self esteem.

Try and have a little symmpathy for your fellow creatures. They know not of what they speak.
 
Freethinker said:
If I am presuming, then what is your take? Is god responsible for only the good things that happen?
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In general, or in detail? In general, if God created it all, and the general case of natural mechanisms that make things work, then certainly a detailed trace of "root cause" would take you back to root causation, since without it all being set in motion, nothing subsequently happens.

So, in that sense, God sets in motion all of the possibilities that you and I experience.

When one gets into detail, I think that trying to extract from the general a specific "God did this to me, that callous SOB" attributes far too much of a human and localized agency, which allows the stater to point a finger of blame, which is to me a bankrupt emotional reponse.

So, you can say God "caused" all of it to happen, and be generally right. If one then wants to feel satisfied with "OK, I blamed the correct causality" one may do so. What good that does still leaves me guessing, beyond a temporary emotional satisfaction.

Now what?

Get on with it.

DR
 
joemailman said:
There is a far more effective method for analysing preposterous messages that this culture promotes however it is promoted. That is the understanding that ignorance is not voluntary....nor is a quality education. It only becomes apparant and a reality when the question of free will is supported. Human beings are either victims of benefactors of their environments with those measures having many shades of grey in between and throughout their lives. Holding humans responsible for their actions or giving them credit only serves to support religion and the notion of special qualities. People who purport to understand the concept of reason and support it's tenets cannot, regardless of the quality of their reasoning abilities, figure out the problems that they are confronted with unless they have been conditioned by the world they live in to inquire, research, and gather information that is related to the problem or to their evaluatory approach to the question. Infants, children, students and adult human beings cannot learn and inquire unless they have been given an environment that does promote the interests necessary for a quality education. Gods and ghosts are only excuses and reasons for a human being's sense of self worth and self esteem.

Try and have a little symmpathy for your fellow creatures. They know not of what they speak.
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No, sorry, but I see that as leaning towards the apologist stance. On what you post, only graduates, philosophers and thinkers would become unbelievers and that clearly isn't the case.

You need to lower your sights a little.

There is literally very littel difference between what we tell kids about Santa and what some parents tell kids about god/s. Kids are old enough at age 6/7/8 to understand that Santa is not real and the same applies to religion. There's no need for "evidence" and research, the truth is blindingly obvious.

I'm not with you on the self-esteem argument, either, as a generalisation. Check out Huntster's posts - he's a firm christian yet has no self-issues to deal with. I think you're trying over-complicate it.
 
Darth Rotor said:
In general, or in detail? In general, if God created it all, and the general case of natural mechanisms that make things work, then certainly a detailed trace of "root cause" would take you back to root causation, since without it all being set in motion, nothing subsequently happens.

So, in that sense, God sets in motion all of the possibilities that you and I experience.
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So, do you feel the same way (as to validity) about someone thanking god that their cancer went into remission as you feel about someone blaming god because they have cancer? This was my point to start with, by the way.
 
If you believe in a god on faith and not on facts, then why can’t you blame your god for your cancer without facts. Once you go down the slipper slop of not needing facts for an important part of your life, why would you need any facts about anything else.:D

Paul

:) :) :)
 
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Tricky said:
Originally Posted by Huntster
You're blaming God for those things?
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(sigh). By now, Huntster, you have been told this many times so I can only assume your continue to ask such questions out of petulance, but assuming that you simply cannot hold a concept in your mind for more than a few minutes, and for the benefit of those who may have come in late, I'll explain again.

Atheists are not mad at God. Atheists don't blame God for anything. Atheists don't believe in God.

What Roadtoad and Slingblade and others who have been hurt by religion dislike is the actions of some of those who claim to follow God.
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So what do the actions of his father, mother, etc have to do with God?
 
Freethinker said:
Originally Posted by Huntster
You're blaming God for those things?
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Do you give him credit when good things happen?
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It depends on what those good things are.

If "Joe" does a good thing, I credit Joe. So what if Joe credits God for the spirit of goodness in his soul?

He's either responsible for everything that happens, or none of it. Cherry-picking is not allowed.
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I never said He's responsible for everything bad that happens. You do.

He's responsible for instilling free will into those who act, and their actions are their own. If they are good acts, they are inspired by God. If they are bad acts, they are inspired by sin, which God opposes but allows.
 
Freethinker said:
The god in whom Hunster purports to believe is claimed to be omnipotent and interested in the minute details of this world (when a sparrow falls...).
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With regard to the affairs of men, we have been given the gift/curse of free will. In order for that to be true, bad occurs and is allowed for our free will to dictate our goodness or sin.

If he is responsible for anything that occurs here, he is responsible for all of it by any of your reasons. Strict liability, since he is claimed to have created the man who beats his wife, applies, and I believe the more general liability as well. Since believers claim god is responsible for good things like curing someone of cancer, it is reasonable to claim he is also responsible for the bad things.
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That is simple shirking of responsibility.

Do you want government to micromanage your decisions?

Is the state legislature responsible when Joe Scumbag burglarizes a house because the legislature made it illegal, or because burglary is wrong, immoral, and because Joe doesn't give a rat's ass?
 
We are talking about a so-called god, who is all-powerful and all-knowing. We are not talking about a manmade government that is not a so-called god and cannot stop things from happening like an all-powerful so-called god can. If a god knows what is going to happen and then will judge you on that there is no free-will.

I wish this was mine “With great power comes great responsibility”.:D

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Freethinker said:
So, do you feel the same way (as to validity) about someone thanking god that their cancer went into remission as you feel about someone blaming god because they have cancer? This was my point to start with, by the way.
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Isn't remission typically a result of treatment? If so, then thanking God for the Doctor's talent/drugs' effectiveness is hardly out of order. If cancer goes into remission all by itself, thank whoever you like. This is a personal matter. Thanks can only be given by you. If you believe that it was God whose agency is responsible, not thanking God seems a bit churlish, eh?

This boils down to the matter of Faith: do you believe that God cares about you, and did that? The answer to that question is not trivial, and is a personal matter that I not only don't interfere with, I don't pretend to have a prepackaged answer for.

DR
 
Paulhoff said:
“With great power comes great responsibility”.:D

Paul
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Fallacious statement.

With great power comes great flexibility. Responsibility is an option, not a necessary outcome, of power. For you to assert that they come as a packaged deal is

1) To ignore the lessons of history
2) Your own assumption, unsupported

DR
 
Argue with the one who wrote the quote, and it is still true.

Those who do not learn from the pass are bound to repeat it. :D

Paul

:) :) :)
 
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