Scools Board member calls students Faggots

[LawnOven]

uhmm...

ω


...kinda sorta.

 

[bob_kark]

uhmm...

ω


...kinda sorta.

I hear Germans make movies about things like that.

 

[steverino]

And the best response to this problem is to accept every point of view as equally valid? No terms are off limits, no objections can be made?

Reminds me of the idiot teachers in elementary school, that when you went to tell them that one of the kids was sticking other kids with a needle that "nobody likes a tattletale".

I don't get your point. I stated that I was called a "faggot" in school and it hurt my feelings. I also stated that the overused term "diversity" excludes groups of varying, sometimes distasteful opinions. That somehow lead to human sacrafice and people writing that Hitler was an artist and did not actually do any killing. Now you are saing in your above post that no terms are off limits. That goes back to what I said. My head is spinning. And more confusing still is that ever since you gave me that nifty list of things to say to my annoying relatives at the Thanksgiving dinner table in 3 days now, there is nothing you can say anymore that would irritate me.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I don't get your point. I stated that I was called a "faggot" in school and it hurt my feelings. I also stated that the overused term "diversity" excludes groups of varying, sometimes distasteful opinions. That somehow lead to human sacrafice and people writing that Hitler was an artist and did not actually do any killing. Now you are saing in your above post that no terms are off limits. That goes back to what I said. My head is spinning. And more confusing still is that ever since you gave me that nifty list of things to say at the Thanksgiving dinner table in 3 days now, there is nothing you can say anymore that would irritate me.

You seemed to be complaining that attempts to create diversity are as bad if not worse than the opposite. I am attempting to point out that this is not the case. Yes, some people go too far in their attempts to promote diversity. This is generally where people get all upset and use the term "political correctness". However, even if sometimes things don't work out perfectly, diversity is still a worthwhile goal. It's much better than the opposite.

And to complain that tolerance isn't tolerant of intolerance is to play semantical games. If you seriously believe that a requirement of true tolerance is to permit intolerance, than there is nothing more to be said because one cannot debate with someone who isn't grasping the meaning of words.

I will also note that generally people start to complain about "PC" and such when the issue at stake does not concern them personally. That someone once called you, inaccurately, a fag and hurt your tender feelings I do not doubt. Had someone beaten you with a baseball bat and left you for dead while screaming "fag" at you, you might feel more strongly about it.

 

[steverino]

You seemed to be complaining that attempts to create diversity are as bad if not worse than the opposite. I am attempting to point out that this is not the case. Yes, some people go too far in their attempts to promote diversity. This is generally where people get all upset and use the term "political correctness". However, even if sometimes things don't work out perfectly, diversity is still a worthwhile goal. It's much better than the opposite.

And to complain that tolerance isn't tolerant of intolerance is to play semantical games. If you seriously believe that a requirement of true tolerance is to permit intolerance, than there is nothing more to be said because one cannot debate with someone who isn't grasping the meaning of words.

I will also note that generally people start to complain about "PC" and such when the issue at stake does not concern them personally. That someone once called you, inaccurately, a fag and hurt your tender feelings I do not doubt. Had someone beaten you with a baseball bat and left you for dead while screaming "fag" at you, you might feel more strongly about it.

I will assume you are not kidding with the above post. I complain bitterly about Political Correctness, and "diversity." These concepts have concerned me personally on many occasions. I was almost fired at the Seattle Space Needle retail store because I tapped a co-worker on her shoulder lightly to allert her that a customer was needing her help. I was almost fired the next day by my (female) boss and told this was inappropriate touch and that I need to attend sensitivity training with the other male employees. The girl who tattled on me, by the way, had made numerous physical advances toward me and made a lot of sexual inuendo. In plain English, I was almost fired for not responding sexually to her. Another example is I was a freelance photographer for the Chicago Tribune in 1992-3, and being groomed for a staff position. In those days that was $38,000 plus medical plus raises. I was told finally that they needed a Spanish name under the published photos and hired two, upper-middle class photographers, mediocre in talent, who had Spanish names. They were not even from Chicago. (I know, I should have just changed my last name.) And, yes, editors told me I was quite qualified.

Before living in Seattle, I lived in "diverse" Oak Park, Illinois. Trust me, if your front lawn did not have a Kerry sign on it, you were snubbed. Many in Oak Park pride themselves on diversity, meaning blacks and whites together in the high school. Then they complain about high property taxes, yet few will move across Austin Avenue to a "real black neighborhood" where they can live for a fifth the amount and their (white) kids can have an authentic diverse upbringing. Hypocrits, I say. I am tired of it. And I feel I can articulate as much in this forum without the requiredment of a Kerry sign in my proverbial lawn.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I will also note that generally people start to complain about "PC" and such when the issue at stake does not concern them personally. That someone once called you, inaccurately, a fag and hurt your tender feelings I do not doubt. Had someone beaten you with a baseball bat and left you for dead while screaming "fag" at you, you might feel more strongly about it.

Bull load of donkey dung

I came here to this forum because I am an atheist. I thought among other atheists I could learn a lot, as I figured (wrongly to some degree) that they were more likely the "intellectual" crowd. I figured (again wrongly) that they would more likely than not try and look at things rationally.

Instead, as I flee from the religious right, I run smack into the religious left.

PC is 1984 all the way. You even name things backwards like 1984 was...the ministry of truth, that deals lies? Well PC has "diversity" which means conforming to one set of ideals. It is colorblind of though, except for anti white sentiments of course.

Pat yourself on the back, you have created a religion as entrenched in society as the invisible sky monster that rules the christians

 

[Antiquehunter]

Sounds like issues with 'affirmative action' more than 'diversity' to me. In the Canadian public service, 'diversity' in the workplace encompasses a number of different issues, including breaking down barriers to employment for women, the disabled, visible minorities, indigenous peoples, and the GLBT community.

While you appear, from an anecdotal basis, to have been the victim of 'reverse discrimination', I do think its a slippery slope to blame a concept that is of tremendous importance to civil rights, for some perceived mistreatments.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Sounds like issues with 'affirmative action' more than 'diversity' to me. In the Canadian public service, 'diversity' in the workplace encompasses a number of different issues, including breaking down barriers to employment for women, the disabled, visible minorities, indigenous peoples, and the GLBT community.

While you appear, from an anecdotal basis, to have been the victim of 'reverse discrimination', I do think its a slippery slope to blame a concept that is of tremendous importance to civil rights, for some perceived mistreatments.

Not me, Im a plump, brown Hawai'ian, I get a few things offered because of my "race" and take that as an INSULT

A bunch of PC thugs are saying "hey stupid idiot brown pile of crap, you are too stupid to feed yourself so lets give you free stuff...we cant expect you to do anything for yourself since the white man is holding you down"

Bull

I will compete with anyone, anytime on a level playing field

I dont need handouts

I dont need special treatment

I dont need free food

I dont need free college

I dont need free medicine

I am a human being same as any other and deserve to be treated with the same dignity or lack therof of anyone else

 

[Antiquehunter]

I was actually addressing Steverino, and our posts crossed by accident.

But again - my use of the word 'diversity' as it applies to the workplace is EXACTLY what you are driving at, pipeline. It is NOT about handouts / quotas etc... Nor is it about 'the population is 10% purple, so we need to hire 10% purple people.'

It IS about ensuring that people don't create real or perceived barriers to advancement etc... because of race or what have you.

 

[steverino]

I was actually addressing Steverino, and our posts crossed by accident.

But again - my use of the word 'diversity' as it applies to the workplace is EXACTLY what you are driving at, pipeline. It is NOT about handouts / quotas etc... Nor is it about 'the population is 10% purple, so we need to hire 10% purple people.'

It IS about ensuring that people don't create real or perceived barriers to advancement etc... because of race or what have you.

Now you are talking about quotas. Which ideally are cute but in practice stink. You stated you are male and have a male husband. I have a buddy in Boston who also has a life-partner. His life-partner is not eligable for health benefits or other goodies through his job because his life-partner is a woman. Had he chosen a male life-partner, that person would indeed be eligable for health care and other special favors. The law asks why does he not marry her and he (and I say) it's nun ya bizness.

 

[steverino]

Scherfel's overtly discriminatory and homophobic attitude

Or maybe there is actually no such medical disease as "homophobia" and maybe Scherfel felt that his high school was a place to learn to read, write, and do math. And maybe by making his feelings overt, as you say, he was simply not intimidated by the do-gooders around him who were afraid to cliarify why a high school club needs to closely examine cunilingus and fellatio. I enjoyed reading The Importance of Being Earnest in high school without the prerequisit of joining a rectal-stimulation club.

 

[Antiquehunter]

No - I'm specifically NOT talking about quotas. 'Affirmative Action' means quotas. 'Diversity' (In the Canadian Public Sector context) is specifically NOT about quotas.

It is NOT about handouts / quotas etc... Nor is it about 'the population is 10% purple, so we need to hire 10% purple people.'

It IS about ensuring that people don't create real or perceived barriers to advancement etc... because of race or what have you.

Anyways - on the matter of your friend in a heterosexual relationship - wouldn't 'common law' spousal laws apply?

On your comments about clubs like Adam's, my opinion is that they're sort of like trade unions. Organizations tend to 'deserve' unions, because they have abused their staff in some way. I'd say that when a student at a school feels a need to start a GLBT club, its addressing a need - and its a need that is evinced by Scherfel's asshat comment. I'd expect that if school administrators were less homophobic and less inclined to openly degrade students using an epithet, students would feel less of a need to organize.

 

[steverino]

No - I'm specifically NOT talking about quotas. 'Affirmative Action' means quotas. 'Diversity' (In the Canadian Public Sector context) is specifically NOT about quotas.

Anyways - on the matter of your friend in a heterosexual relationship - wouldn't 'common law' spousal laws apply?

On your comments about clubs like Adam's, my opinion is that they're sort of like trade unions. Organizations tend to 'deserve' unions, because they have abused their staff in some way. I'd say that when a student at a school feels a need to start a GLBT club, its addressing a need - and its a need that is evinced by Scherfel's asshat comment. I'd expect that if school administrators were less homophobic and less inclined to openly degrade students using an epithet, students would feel less of a need to organize.

As I am not a lawyer I can't answer the common law question. But of all the people I know, this particular friend is the most liberal and open to diversity and gay marriage and he still got screwed by the diversity system.

My other points flew right over your head. I am not convinced of the validity of your definition of "homophobic." Particularly when you speculate if the adminstrators were "less homophobic." What does that mean scientifically? "Less Homophobic" ? I also recall being a high school student, and now realize it was perfectly valid for my "needs to organize" to be ignored by grown-ups who ran the show and paid the taxes. Again, what does sexual orientation have to do with high school? Yes-enjoy the genius of Walt Whitman, Aaron Copeland, etc. But if the students really want to gain a healthy sense of self by exploring which civil war soldier's penis went into Whitman's mouth at a makeshift triage facility, they can easily chat about it ad nauseum over lattes at Starbucks after the last school bell rings, and you can quote me on that.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I will assume you are not kidding with the above post. I complain bitterly about Political Correctness, and "diversity." These concepts have concerned me personally on many occasions. I was almost fired at the Seattle Space Needle retail store because I tapped a co-worker on her shoulder lightly to allert her that a customer was needing her help. I was almost fired the next day by my (female) boss and told this was inappropriate touch and that I need to attend sensitivity training with the other male employees. The girl who tattled on me, by the way, had made numerous physical advances toward me and made a lot of sexual inuendo. In plain English, I was almost fired for not responding sexually to her.

This has nothing to do with "diversity". It's either sexual harrassment, or a climate of ridiculousness created by the fear of lawsuits about sexual harrassment.

Another example is I was a freelance photographer for the Chicago Tribune in 1992-3, and being groomed for a staff position. In those days that was $38,000 plus medical plus raises. I was told finally that they needed a Spanish name under the published photos and hired two, upper-middle class photographers, mediocre in talent, who had Spanish names. They were not even from Chicago. (I know, I should have just changed my last name.) And, yes, editors told me I was quite qualified.

As someone's pointed out, this is affirmative action. Not everybody who likes diversity thinks it can or should be created by artificial means.

Before living in Seattle, I lived in "diverse" Oak Park, Illinois. Trust me, if your front lawn did not have a Kerry sign on it, you were snubbed. Many in Oak Park pride themselves on diversity, meaning blacks and whites together in the high school. Then they complain about high property taxes, yet few will move across Austin Avenue to a "real black neighborhood" where they can live for a fifth the amount and their (white) kids can have an authentic diverse upbringing. Hypocrits, I say. I am tired of it. And I feel I can articulate as much in this forum without the requiredment of a Kerry sign in my proverbial lawn.

Oh, that's just people. Who's going to put their money where their mouth is? Everybody likes to talk about believing in various ideals, but when thousands of dollars of property value and crime rates enter the equation for them personally, they'll find excuses. People like that want diversity, but they want clean, name-brand Diversity brought to them by Disney. To borrow a metaphor from Terry Pratchett, it's the difference between getting muddy when you have a bath to look forward to, and getting muddy when you know you'll have to stay muddy for a long time afterward.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Bull load of donkey dung

I came here to this forum because I am an atheist. I thought among other atheists I could learn a lot, as I figured (wrongly to some degree) that they were more likely the "intellectual" crowd. I figured (again wrongly) that they would more likely than not try and look at things rationally.

Instead, as I flee from the religious right, I run smack into the religious left.

PC is 1984 all the way. You even name things backwards like 1984 was...the ministry of truth, that deals lies? Well PC has "diversity" which means conforming to one set of ideals. It is colorblind of though, except for anti white sentiments of course.

Pat yourself on the back, you have created a religion as entrenched in society as the invisible sky monster that rules the christians

Snort. I love how people project opinions on me. So far this month I've counted three posts by other people explaining what I meant.

I like diversity. Because I like people, and I find them more interesting when they are different. That doesn't mean all differences can and should be tolerated, or that people can ditch common sense or common courtesy in the name of diversity.

But I don't think it's possible to create diversity artificially. Things like quotas and trying too hard to pretend that some differences, the problematic ones, don't exist are ridiculous. People trying to promote diversity by celebrating one holiday but changing the name of another, hiring one person based on their ethnicity rather than another to show that they aren't considering ethnicity important...it's nuts. The best way to achieve diversity is to leave people the ◊◊◊◊ alone and let them be themselves. I like diversity. That's why I don't give a rat's buttock who you are, where you're from, or what you think. It's not my business. It's not important.

Diversity occurs best when it occurs naturally, and that only happens when people stop trying.

 

[Antiquehunter]

Nothing flew over my head. You are clearly and likely purposely reading more into the stated intention of the club in order to foster your own misguided assertions.

Some ground rules:

Definition of homophobia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia is a good enough starting point for me.

Stated purpose of Adam's club: "mission is to promote diversity and confront discrimination and homophobia."

You want to know how Asshat could've been less homophobic? How about not using a hateful epithet to describe a group of people. Indeed, we have no way of knowing if indeed Adam identifies as gay or straight himself - it is a 'Gay-Straight Alliance' which implies that you don't have to be gay to join (although it probably helps.)

Now - you've alleged that you believe this club to be some sort of study of homosexuality in culture, and further made the suggestion that the club is some sort of dating / sex club. Re-read the mission statement of the club. Its not. Point blank.

The VERY FACT that students feel a need to form an 'ALLIANCE' suggests strongly to me that they are feeling abused and/or bullied in their environment. Clearly, they're being abused and/or bullied by the very administrators of the school.

I'm not going to rise to the occasion and suggest that your attitude in your posts implies homophobia - because I suspect you're waiting just for that as some sort of false proof that 'Diversity' is the root of all evils, and that you're really a hip and caring guy with loads of gay friends, and that once again, the PC police are throwing about intolerant labels all willy-nilly. But I will say that your comments about Walt Whitman giving blowjobs and rectal stimulation suggests a certain disconnect, and implies a degree of immaturity.

Thanks for the offer of using your line as a quote, but I find it more asinine than quote-worthy.

 

[Almo]

That is some real twisted logic. If, for example, the Holocaust musume invites people from various backgrounds to discuss genocide, and does not invite a representative group of Holocaust deniers, it would not be a diverse group?

Sorry, I'm not gay, I do wish for diversity, and I feel that people who make bigoted moronic comments like those in the opening post should be condemned.

Daredelvis

Very well put, dude. My post doesn't add much. Just felt like saying for the record that this was very well put.

 

[Almo]

The best way to achieve diversity is to leave people the ◊◊◊◊ alone and let them be themselves.

Wrong. Leave people alone and you get VERY unpleasant amounts of ____ism. Perhaps things have gone too far the other way in demanding diversity, (I'm unsure of this), but it is certainly not OK to just leave people alone about it.

 

[steverino]

Oh, that's just people. Who's going to put their money where their mouth is? Everybody likes to talk about believing in various ideals, but when thousands of dollars of property value and crime rates enter the equation for them personally, they'll find excuses. People like that want diversity, but they want clean, name-brand Diversity brought to them by Disney. To borrow a metaphor from Terry Pratchett, it's the difference between getting muddy when you have a bath to look forward to, and getting muddy when you know you'll have to stay muddy for a long time afterward.

This is brilliant. And I love the muddy-metaphor. In Chicago we had a newscaster, Walter Jacobson, what some would call a "nebbish." Kind of an Andy Rooney without the gravitas, or bushy eyebrows. Anyway, he did a "piece" on homelessness. He walked around Chicago on a cold rainy weekend, with hidden cameras following him. He stared longingly at yummy food through restaurant windows being consumed by customers, and tried to bum change from passersby. He made a point, but by the time the story aired, Mr. 3-Piece Suit was back in his fancy 6000 sf home, his kids safely off to fancy New Trier High School. And of course he didn't exactly open HIS front door to drifters.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Wrong. Leave people alone and you get VERY unpleasant amounts of ____ism.

evidence?