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Global Warming Scam

John Brignell at www.numberwatch.co.uk regularly jokes about wishing he *was* being paid by the oil industry. Christopher Monckton's recent Telegraph articles (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/05/nwarm05.xml) raised controversy, but his Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Brenchley) doesn't mention any links to the oil industry.
Pardon me for being unclear with my challenge, but these links don't inform me that these characters were tagged as oil lackeys.

One must assess the evidence presented.
But only if the evidence meets a threshold making it worthy of assessment, i.e. peer-reviewed scientific studies. To take a more extreme example, if someone posts a link to some random bozo who claims the moon is made of cheese, is it necessary to assess the evidence?

As a practical matter, there's just not enough time in the day to assess every nutty claim made by random bozos.

No, I'm suggesting that many climate scientists work for organisations whose raison d'etre is to research and/or raise public awareness of AGW.
For instance? Is this true of the organizations listed here?

If you believe that we live in a world where anti-AGW proponents might sometimes distort the issues to their own advantage...
I cut off your sentence with this faulty premise and refer back to your question "Evidence for what?"

Evidence that contradicts AGW, in the form of peer-reviewed scientific studies. Can you produce such evidence?

For example, a point raised earlier in this thread was that one only has to observe the shrinking of Kilimanjaro's snow cap to see that AGW is real.
This thread is awfully long, so without a link I'll just comment in the abstract: I agree that a single data point such as Kilimanjaro is insufficient as proof of AGW. Did a peer-reviewed scientific study make such a claim?

I've seen it suggested...
Surely you know by now that "I've seen it suggested..." is not apt to satisfy this crowd, me included.

I'm not at all saying the AGW isn't real; I simply voiced my disquiet.
However you haven't provided a credible basis for your disquiet.

People have amazing abilities to believe what they wish to be true - hence homeopathy. One should not assume that climate scientists are immune from that particular problem, particularly given the West's increasing angst over humanity's obvious and ongoing defilement of the environment.
Again you suggest that climate scientists are akin to homeopathists. This is goofy to an extreme. In my opinion this translates to:


Various government departments have been trying for decades to make us reduce our energy use, for all the perfectly good reasons stated above - pollution, reliance on imports from unstable states, etc etc. I'm simply suggesting that, when presented with the opportunity to write 'Use low-power light bulbs or the polar bear gets it' on a twenty-foot tall billboard, many such government departments would be strongly disinclined to check all the literature first.
And this relates to the price of bread how?
 
Evidence that contradicts AGW, in the form of peer-reviewed scientific studies. Can you produce such evidence?

I'm not claiming that AGW is wrong, and I have seen no such evidence.

However you haven't provided a credible basis for your disquiet.

With respect, the basis for my disquiet doesn't need to be credible to you. My point was, and still is, that I feel there is a significant risk in this debate that people (and goverments, businesses, etc) will tend to accept AGW too readily simply because it is such a perfect stick with which to beat us into doing the things they want us to do anyway. I think we saw a similar thing in 2003 with the whole WMD debacle; people (some people) were far too ready to believe that Saddam had WMD, because it provided the perfect excuse for doing what they wanted to do anyway, ie depose him.

I honestly don't disbelieve the AGW hypothesis, so I feel your aggression is a little misplaced. I'm agnostic, for now. I'm convinced that the planet is warming; I'm convinced that increased atmospheric CO2 causes GW, at least considering what one might call the first order feedbacks; I'm not convinced carbon emissions are playing as big a role as they are currently made out to be.

Again you suggest that climate scientists are akin to homeopathists. This is goofy to an extreme.

I think I made it clear what I meant the extent of my comparison to be. Clearly any scientist publishing work which is skewed by their own personal beliefs should be controlled by the peer review process. What happens if the peers have the same beliefs? Again, I'm not saying this has happened, I'm just saying that AGW has become such a massively important international political issue that one must be aware of these dangers.
 
I'm not claiming that AGW is wrong, and I have seen no such evidence.
Fair enough.

With respect, the basis for my disquiet doesn't need to be credible to you.
But when you post your disquiet to a skeptical forum, it becomes fair game.

My point was, and still is, that I feel there is a significant risk in this debate that people (and goverments, businesses, etc) will tend to accept AGW too readily simply because it is such a perfect stick with which to beat us into doing the things they want us to do anyway. I think we saw a similar thing in 2003 with the whole WMD debacle
At the risk of digressing into WMD, there was abundant cause for skepticism on this topic. And there is abundant cause for skepticism about homeopathy. Whereas the skepticism you express re AGW impresses me as vacuous.
 
The "if" isn't all that big. What makes you any less ignorant than I?
His understanding of what argument from ignorance means?

An argument from ignorance basically means that because we don’t know for sure that some idea is true that proves the idea is false or some other idea is true. In this case, from reading your post, it seems like your position is that because it hasn’t been proven conclusively that pollution is a contributing factor to the increased average in global temperatures that proves it isn’t, or ,at the very least, we should act like it isn’t, ignoring any evidence of correlation, until it is proven conclusively that it is a factor. This is an argument from ignorance. You are arguing from the position of what we don’ t know (ignorance) instead of the position of what we do know.

Also, he didn’t call you ignorant or make the claim that he was less so, perhaps this a guilty conscious speaking?
 
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You for one, as well as many others. People who want to jump on the whistle blowing band wagon claiming doom and gloom.

You for one would probably vote for a person who claims to care about the environment and will do anything and everything to reduce GW "causing" gasses vs a person who wants to help the homeless or to enhance the war on drugs.

All of which are quite useless stances in my opinion.
Wow. You really do live in a fantasy world. News flash, buddy -- I ain't a liberal.

Now, stop projecting your fantasies on me and tell me who exactly you think is behind these evil schemes.
 
You for one, as well as many others. People who want to jump on the whistle blowing band wagon claiming doom and gloom.

You for one would probably vote for a person who claims to care about the environment and will do anything and everything to reduce GW "causing" gasses vs a person who wants to help the homeless or to enhance the war on drugs.

All of which are quite useless stances in my opinion.

And in case you missed it, here's the real question again. Try not to dodge it this time:

Who is perpetrating this scam and why?

And how did they get the vast majority of mainstream scientists in the field on their side?
 
And in case you missed it, here's the real question again. Try not to dodge it this time:

Who is perpetrating this scam and why?

And how did they get the vast majority of mainstream scientists in the field on their side?

"In an article in the journal Science the government’s Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir David King, claims global warming is an even more serious threat to the world than terrorism. He maintains that the ten hottest years on record started in 1991, that global warming is causing the ice caps to melt and the seas to rise, and that mankind’s activities in producing carbon dioxide have been proved to be the cause.

With all due respect to Sir David’s eminence, every one of these claims is utter garbage. What science actually tells us is that we just don’t know whether global warming is happening and, if it is, why. Much of the research behind this theory is specious, anti-historical and scientifically illiterate. If the world’s climate is indeed warming up beyond normal patterns, this could be due to natural reasons rather than the actions of mankind.

It is not true that the seas are generally rising. Some are; some aren’t. The claim is based on the atypical North Atlantic, ignoring the seas around Australia where levels have remained pretty static. Indeed, around parts of New Zealand and elsewhere they are falling.

What’s more, there’s no correlation between rises in climate temperature and sea levels. During the ‘Little Ice Age’ in the Middle Ages, sea levels rose; and between 1900 and 1940, when temperatures rose, sea levels actually dropped.

The ice-caps tell a similar story. Some are melting; some are not. The Larsen ice shelf in the Antarctic is breaking up, but most of the Antarctic ice is increasing.

Then there’s the claim that the climate is now the hottest on record. But this statistical record only goes back a few centuries, if that. Yet there’s plenty of other evidence that the climate in Europe was warmer than now by at least 2 degrees in 1100, when vines grew in Northumberland and farmers settled in Greenland. Since this was followed by the Little Ice Age which lasted until about 1880, it’s hardly surprising - and surely a cause for rejoicing - that since then the climate has warmed up by about 0.6 degrees, well within normal patterns.

As for the presumed villain of the piece carbon dioxide, this makes up such a tiny fraction of the atmosphere that even if it doubled it would make little difference to the climate. And like sea levels, it doesn’t correlate with climate change. Historically, it has increased hundreds of years after the climate has warmed up. Between 1940 and 1975, when industrial activity - which produces carbon dioxide -rose rapidly, the climate actually cooled.

Far from being proved, the claim of man-made global warming is a global fraud. Instead of being drawn from observable facts, it is based on computer modelling which churns out wholly artificial - and eminently manipulable - visions of the world.

Computers can only process the information fed into them. This is an inadequate procedure, not least because climate change is affected by billions of variables which are beyond any computer program. The sea level ‘rise’, for instance, omits the full influence of certain crucial natural meteorological changes. And if the disaster scenarios of global warming are fed into the computer as a premise, it is hardly surprising that it will then ‘predict’ the disappearance of species as a consequence.

In other words, if you feed rubbish into a computer, you get rubbish out.

The claim that there’s a scientific consensus behind global warming is also utterly bogus. In 1992, more than 40 atmospheric scientists said the theory was highly uncertain and warned against using theoretical climate models which they said were not supported by existing records.

In 1997, dozens of meteorologists, geologists, atmospheric scientists and other experts said global warming was based solely on unproven scientific theories and imperfect computer models.

In 1998, 18,000 scientists signed the Oregon petition which again criticised this ‘flawed’ research, said historic evidence showed that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide was environmentally helpful, and predicted that the 1997 Kyoto agreement to reduce industrial emissions would keep the developing world trapped in poverty.

One of the world’s most eminent meteorologists, Professor Richard Lindzen, has also protested that while the science behind the Kyoto protocol was suitably equivocal about global warming, the document’s highly politicised summary - the part actually being used to force reduced industrial activity onto the western world - was written instead by government representatives, who had conjured up ’scary scenarios for which there is no evidence’.

Indeed, global warming has little to do with science and everything to do with politics. Those scientists who endorse the theory command the lion’s share of government-funded research grants. Since the global warming prediction emerged in the late 1980s, climate science funding has gone through the roof.

Scientists know, however, that they won’t get funded unless their research confirms global warming. Too many enormous reputations would go down the plug otherwise; too many political agendas depend on the theory. So global warming has become big business.

This is ironic. For it is yet another variation of left-wing, anti-American, anti-west ideology which goes hand in hand with anti-globalisation and the belief that everything done by the industrialised world is wicked. The agenda to cripple this world is revealed by highly questionable assumptions made by climate modellers about likely developments in economics, technology or population movements, which affect emissions and consequent temperature predictions.

As the Economist recently pointed out, they assume growth rates that are beyond any historical experience, resulting in predictions of a bizarre economic future in which the United States stops growing and developing nations overtake the industrialised world. But that reversal of fortune is, of course, precisely the objective.

And if anyone objects, they are demonised. As Professor Lindzen has protested, science is now being used ‘as a source of authority with which to bludgeon political opponents and propagandize uninformed citizens’.

Dr Bjorn Lomborg, the Danish statistician who became famous for his book ‘The Sceptical Environmentalist’, paid a heavy price for pointing out that richer countries were cleaner countries, and observing that the costs of implementing the Kyoto protocol for less than one year would provide clean water for every human being on Earth.

For his demolition of the environmental scam, he was vilified across the globe and accused by a Danish scientific committee of ‘dishonesty’ - a disgraceful verdict that has now been demolished by a superior committee that tore into Dr Lomborg’s inquisitors for intellectual inadequacy.

The claim of man-made global warming represents the descent of science from the pursuit of truth into politicised propaganda. The fact that it is endorsed by the top scientist in the British government shows how deep this rot has gone."
 
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In an article in the journal Science the government’s Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir David King, claims global warming is an even more serious threat to the world than terrorism. He maintains that the ten hottest years on record started in 1991, that global warming is causing the ice caps to melt and the seas to rise, and that mankind’s activities in producing carbon dioxide have been proved to be the cause.

With all due respect to Sir David’s eminence, every one of these claims is utter garbage. What science actually tells us is that we just don’t know whether global warming is happening and, if it is, why. Much of the research behind this theory is specious, anti-historical and scientifically illiterate. If the world’s climate is indeed warming up beyond normal patterns, this could be due to natural reasons rather than the actions of mankind.

The temperature is being measured, that's how we know it's warming.

http://www.dar.csiro.au/information/observedchange.html

The modelling indicates that without the contribution of CO2, the temperature would not be changing as much as it is.

It is not true that the seas are generally rising. Some are; some aren’t. The claim is based on the atypical North Atlantic, ignoring the seas around Australia where levels have remained pretty static. Indeed, around parts of New Zealand and elsewhere they are falling.
New Zealand is a relatively small pair of islands sitting on top of an active area of the earth. It has active volcanoes and earth quake events. I would guess it is rising.

http://www.csiro.au/files/mediaRelease/mr2003/Prrecord.htm

Tide mark in Tasmania. The sea level's would not be rising a lot yet, but that is just what was predicted.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/02/020220075633.htm

The ice-caps tell a similar story. Some are melting; some are not. The Larsen ice shelf in the Antarctic is breaking up, but most of the Antarctic ice is increasing.
The area of the Antarctic is falling, but it has historically been the continent with the least precipitation. That is changing due to warming, it can now snow. However, the net effect is a loss of ice.

Then there’s the claim that the climate is now the hottest on record. But this statistical record only goes back a few centuries, if that. Yet there’s plenty of other evidence that the climate in Europe was warmer than now by at least 2 degrees in 1100, when vines grew in Northumberland and farmers settled in Greenland. Since this was followed by the Little Ice Age which lasted until about 1880, it’s hardly surprising - and surely a cause for rejoicing - that since then the climate has warmed up by about 0.6 degrees, well within normal patterns.

There's a reason for the current rise, and it's not within normal patterns. In geological terms, is rapid, and it's not going to stop at 0.6 degrees, it's going to keep going up. To say that it's just part of normal patterns we don't understand and can't explain is just sticking your head in the ground.

As for the presumed villain of the piece carbon dioxide, this makes up such a tiny fraction of the atmosphere that even if it doubled it would make little difference to the climate. And like sea levels, it doesn’t correlate with climate change. Historically, it has increased hundreds of years after the climate has warmed up. Between 1940 and 1975, when industrial activity - which produces carbon dioxide -rose rapidly, the climate actually cooled.
It is a tiny fraction of the atmosphere, but it takes out one particular part of the bandwidth of light from the sun, with a suprisingly small concentration. Double that concentration, and we get a small, but for us, significant change in the global temperature.

The cooling was due to global dimming. That is, pollution that resulted in particles and sulphur chemicals that cooled the earth, while other pollution contributed to warming. The work to remove these pollutants, which also had a significant effect on the planet and our health, was not accompanied by a fraction of the fuss and carry on we now hear about CO2. Unfortunately, the components of global dimming are only short lived, but CO2 is long lived. In a hundred years, half the carbon we produce now will still be in the atmosphere.

Far from being proved, the claim of man-made global warming is a global fraud. Instead of being drawn from observable facts, it is based on computer modelling which churns out wholly artificial - and eminently manipulable - visions of the world.
The rise in temperature is observed. The absorption of heat from sunlight by CO2 is observed and easily proven. It has been known about for over a hundred years. Much of advanced science and engineering is impossible without modelling. Yet it is only in this area it appears to be an issue.

Computers can only process the information fed into them. This is an inadequate procedure, not least because climate change is affected by billions of variables which are beyond any computer program. The sea level ‘rise’, for instance, omits the full influence of certain crucial natural meteorological changes. And if the disaster scenarios of global warming are fed into the computer as a premise, it is hardly surprising that it will then ‘predict’ the disappearance of species as a consequence.

In other words, if you feed rubbish into a computer, you get rubbish out.

The claim that there’s a scientific consensus behind global warming is also utterly bogus. In 1992, more than 40 atmospheric scientists said the theory was highly uncertain and warned against using theoretical climate models which they said were not supported by existing records.

In 1997, dozens of meteorologists, geologists, atmospheric scientists and other experts said global warming was based solely on unproven scientific theories and imperfect computer models.

In 1998, 18,000 scientists signed the Oregon petition which again criticised this ‘flawed’ research, said historic evidence showed that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide was environmentally helpful, and predicted that the 1997 Kyoto agreement to reduce industrial emissions would keep the developing world trapped in poverty.
Yet here we are in 2006. Nothing has happened to disprove global warming, only confirm it.

One of the world’s most eminent meteorologists, Professor Richard Lindzen, has also protested that while the science behind the Kyoto protocol was suitably equivocal about global warming, the document’s highly politicised summary - the part actually being used to force reduced industrial activity onto the western world - was written instead by government representatives, who had conjured up ’scary scenarios for which there is no evidence’.

Indeed, global warming has little to do with science and everything to do with politics. Those scientists who endorse the theory command the lion’s share of government-funded research grants. Since the global warming prediction emerged in the late 1980s, climate science funding has gone through the roof.

Scientists know, however, that they won’t get funded unless their research confirms global warming. Too many enormous reputations would go down the plug otherwise; too many political agendas depend on the theory. So global warming has become big business.

This is ironic. For it is yet another variation of left-wing, anti-American, anti-west ideology which goes hand in hand with anti-globalisation and the belief that everything done by the industrialised world is wicked. The agenda to cripple this world is revealed by highly questionable assumptions made by climate modellers about likely developments in economics, technology or population movements, which affect emissions and consequent temperature predictions.
Utter rubbish and paranoia. There are some who fit that stereotype, but Piggy has already told you he is a conservative politically.
 
"In an article in the journal...

-SNIP-

...to remove the article you cut and pasted word for word from Melanie Philips....."

Dear Ceritus,

It was a little dishonest not to source your quote from Melanie Philips http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=185 and perhaps even more so given that it is over two years out of date.

I am not sure which country you live in, but in the UK this woman is a target of ridicule. You can see the low quality of her work from the complete lack of references she gives for any of her supposed "facts".

She is also an ardent supporter of the discredited MMR/autism hypothesis, which is indicative of her level of critical thinking skills.

This is not an ad hom, merely an explanation of the kind of "research" and thought she puts into her work.

I would seriously think again before quoting this opinion piece writer again, although perhaps now I can see why yoe were reluctant to acknowledge the source...
 
Scientists know, however, that they won’t get funded unless their research confirms global warming. Too many enormous reputations would go down the plug otherwise; too many political agendas depend on the theory. So global warming has become big business.
You don't understand how science or government work.

You've also got things backward. It's not that pro-GW scientists are given grants, but rather that the science supports GW, so if you pick a grant recipient in the area, you'll likely find that their data supports GW.

Similarly, you'll find that grant recipients support Darwinian evolution, but there's no conspiracy behind that fact.

And according to your conspiracy theory, the business and government interests who ultimately fund the grants are -- for some reason -- interested in funding their own undoing.

That's just nuts.

This is ironic. For it is yet another variation of left-wing, anti-American, anti-west ideology which goes hand in hand with anti-globalisation and the belief that everything done by the industrialised world is wicked. The agenda to cripple this world is revealed by highly questionable assumptions made by climate modellers about likely developments in economics, technology or population movements, which affect emissions and consequent temperature predictions.
More unsupported conspiracy-theory paranoia. Again, why in the world would the US establishment be secretly funding "left-wing, anti-American, anti-west ideology... and the belief that everything done by the industrialised world is wicked"?

That's insane.
 
It is not true that the seas are generally rising. Some are; some aren’t. The claim is based on the atypical North Atlantic, ignoring the seas around Australia where levels have remained pretty static. Indeed, around parts of New Zealand and elsewhere they are falling.

What is your source for this? From everything that I've read, even scientists sceptical of anthropogenic-caused GW have not claimed that sea levels aren't rising.

Then there’s the claim that the climate is now the hottest on record. But this statistical record only goes back a few centuries, if that.
But ice cores can give some indication of climate over the past several thousand years.

As for the presumed villain of the piece carbon dioxide, this makes up such a tiny fraction of the atmosphere that even if it doubled it would make little difference to the climate.
Really? On what do you base this claim?


And like sea levels, it doesn’t correlate with climate change. Historically, it has increased hundreds of years after the climate has warmed up. Between 1940 and 1975, when industrial activity - which produces carbon dioxide -rose rapidly, the climate actually cooled.
A strawman argument, isn't it? No one is claiming that CO2 is the only thing influencing the climate. The overall temperature trend has been upward since the start of the Industrial Revolution even though there have been short-term drops in the temperature.

Far from being proved, the claim of man-made global warming is a global fraud. Instead of being drawn from observable facts, it is based on computer modelling which churns out wholly artificial - and eminently manipulable - visions of the world.
So we shouldn't believe any computer models? On anything?

The claim that there’s a scientific consensus behind global warming is also utterly bogus. In 1992, more than 40 atmospheric scientists said the theory was highly uncertain and warned against using theoretical climate models which they said were not supported by existing records.
1) 40 is a very small percent of the total number of atmospheric scientists;
2) Do all of these people still hold the same opinion? I know of several scientists who have changed their opinion in the past 5 years.

In 1998, 18,000 scientists signed the Oregon petition which again criticised this ‘flawed’ research, said historic evidence showed that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide was environmentally helpful, and predicted that the 1997 Kyoto agreement to reduce industrial emissions would keep the developing world trapped in poverty.
No one knows how many of these people were actually scientists of any sort. The petitioners have never provided any documentation on the educational backgrounds of the signers. According to SourceWatch, "only a few dozen, at most, of the signatories were drawn from the core disciplines of climate science".

The petition was also accompanied by a deceptive letter to fool people into thinking that the National Academy of Sciences was involved in circulating the petition.

One of the world’s most eminent meteorologists, Professor Richard Lindzen, has also protested that while the science behind the Kyoto protocol was suitably equivocal about global warming, the document’s highly politicised summary - the part actually being used to force reduced industrial activity onto the western world - was written instead by government representatives, who had conjured up ’scary scenarios for which there is no evidence’.
Lindzen is funded by energy companies.

Scientists know, however, that they won’t get funded unless their research confirms global warming. Too many enormous reputations would go down the plug otherwise; too many political agendas depend on the theory. So global warming has become big business.
You don't believe that the Bush Administration would throw money at any scientist that could disprove an anthropogenic basis for global warming?

Dr Bjorn Lomborg, the Danish statistician who became famous for his book ‘The Sceptical Environmentalist’, paid a heavy price for pointing out that richer countries were cleaner countries, and observing that the costs of implementing the Kyoto protocol for less than one year would provide clean water for every human being on Earth.
My understanding is that Dr. Lomborg's thesis is that it would be cheaper to mitigate the effects of global warming than to try to prevent it. I don't believe that he has argued against an anthropogenic contribution to global warming.
 
In 1998, 18,000 scientists signed the Oregon petition which again criticised this ‘flawed’ research, said historic evidence showed that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide was environmentally helpful, and predicted that the 1997 Kyoto agreement to reduce industrial emissions would keep the developing world trapped in poverty.

The Oregon petition is organised by a nutcase loner. The integrity of it has been questioned by many. He just took signatures by anyone who claimed they were worth listening to, not specialists in that field, and names that were clearly a joke. I wouldn't place any trust in it.

Indeed, global warming has little to do with science and everything to do with politics. Those scientists who endorse the theory command the lion’s share of government-funded research grants. Since the global warming prediction emerged in the late 1980s, climate science funding has gone through the roof.

Scientists know, however, that they won’t get funded unless their research confirms global warming. Too many enormous reputations would go down the plug otherwise; too many political agendas depend on the theory. So global warming has become big business.

On the contrary, if a scientist in Australia wanted to get a guaranteed grant, all he would have to do is be a contrarian, it's what the current government wants to be told, but never is.

This is ironic. For it is yet another variation of left-wing, anti-American, anti-west ideology which goes hand in hand with anti-globalisation and the belief that everything done by the industrialised world is wicked. The agenda to cripple this world is revealed by highly questionable assumptions made by climate modellers about likely developments in economics, technology or population movements, which affect emissions and consequent temperature predictions.

What is your proof? Evidence?

As the Economist recently pointed out, they assume growth rates that are beyond any historical experience, resulting in predictions of a bizarre economic future in which the United States stops growing and developing nations overtake the industrialised world. But that reversal of fortune is, of course, precisely the objective.

To an extent, that is exactly what is happening now. China will be a bigger economy than the US in about 20 years, IIRC.

And if anyone objects, they are demonised. As Professor Lindzen has protested, science is now being used ‘as a source of authority with which to bludgeon political opponents and propagandize uninformed citizens’.

Dr Bjorn Lomborg, the Danish statistician who became famous for his book ‘The Sceptical Environmentalist’, paid a heavy price for pointing out that richer countries were cleaner countries, and observing that the costs of implementing the Kyoto protocol for less than one year would provide clean water for every human being on Earth.

For his demolition of the environmental scam, he was vilified across the globe and accused by a Danish scientific committee of ‘dishonesty’ - a disgraceful verdict that has now been demolished by a superior committee that tore into Dr Lomborg’s inquisitors for intellectual inadequacy.

The claim of man-made global warming represents the descent of science from the pursuit of truth into politicised propaganda. The fact that it is endorsed by the top scientist in the British government shows how deep this rot has gone."


A scientist says what the evidence is, and that is an example of "how deep the rot has gone"?

Lomborg makes out that the choice is between fresh water and action on global warming, a false dilemma. For Bangladesh, a one meter rise in the the ocean will see 50% of the country under water.
 
I give up, the human race is coming to an end I guess due to AGW and I may as well enjoy it while it lasts.

All I can do is welcome the chaos and warmer temperatures then.
 
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It's worth remembering that the scientific consensus isn't just a consensus amongst the scientists, it's a consensus amongst the science.

That's not to say all research is unanimous (any more than all repetitions of Michelson-Morely are), but the vast majority support both GW and (where relevant) AGW.
 
I give up, the human race is coming to an end I guess due to AGW and I may as well enjoy it while it lasts.

I shouldn't worry, 'bird flu' will most likely get us all long before warming has a chance!

(Ooh, new thread!)
 
Lomborg makes out that the choice is between fresh water and action on global warming, a false dilemma. For Bangladesh, a one meter rise in the the ocean will see 50% of the country under water.

And not even fresh water at that!
:(
 
If scientific evidence was in favor of global warming & green house gases being nonsense & business should continue as normal. Then why would Politicians even consider going down the road of reducing carbon emissions?

Wouldnt they just simply refuse to reduce emissions because scientific evidence says humans are not to blame? It seems they think otherwise. Or at least some are.

Why would Carbon Emissions Trading even be considered if big business didnt think they were partly responsible?

Wouldnt all of the above just simply carry on with life & ignore the global warming "scare mongers"?

Lol. I liked that one about Australia having one of its biggest droughts ever because Aboriginals have cleared forests throughout the centuries with fire,haha.

The aboriginals were/are known for their conservative fire usage. They burnt regularly to get rid of small underbrush which helped them flush out animals to eat. The secondary effect was that huge forest destroying fires rarely happened as there was not a sufficient build up of fuel to set the larger trees alight fully.

D2011
 
Why would Carbon Emissions Trading even be considered if big business didnt think they were partly responsible?

Good point. In fact, it's certain prominent members of the business community in the US who are starting to move on this issue, despite the government's foot-dragging and denial. Why? Because f*****g up the planet is a business risk.
 

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