• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

Status
Not open for further replies.
OK, I've missed it somewhere... who has the socks now?

If no one else has them, I'll take a stab:

Chris:

Do you honestly think a 1300-ft long steel beam can be created in such a manner that it can stand vertically, unsupported, without shattering?

:socks: (provisional)

I got the socks sometime about two pages ago. But I think I've reached the end of the "scientific argument" portion of this thread. I give them up to you.

Take thee, and remove thine provisions, yea, come into the fullness of true sockholdinghood.
 
I got the socks sometime about two pages ago. But I think I've reached the end of the "scientific argument" portion of this thread. I give them up to you.

Take thee, and remove thine provisions, yea, come into the fullness of true sockholdinghood.

So what´s the current issue? Free fall? :confused:
 
:socks::socks:zaayrdragon has the socks:socks::socks:
The current question is:

:socks::socks:zaayrdragon has the socks:socks::socks:

Shouldn´t they have made sure that the core was
destroyed first to bring the towers down? Did they
sleep while they built the C4-towers?
 
I don´t think it was this famous documentary. You have
to consider that the documentary may not exist outside
"Barney Bears world"


No kidding here.

I don't think he will acknowledge this as the video because it shows the building had steel core columns. I sort of hoped that looking at it might jog his photographic memory and make him admit he has been wrong, but I'm way too optimistic!

BTW, although I have not posted here before I have been following this thread closely. Call me nuts, but I find this thread very entertaining, just like I found Carlos' paranormal hat entertaining. It's the first thread I visit every day! I think this thread is just what the JREF needs: An educational look into the mind of a believer. Eternal optimist that I am, I keep hoping that someone will find a way to get through to the mind of this poor deluded soul. Somewhere out there there is someone who can find the right words to make it click in his head just how wrong he is.

No one, not even Christophera, is unreachable. Don't be discouraged; keep up the fight. I applaud all of you all for sticking with this thread.
 
Vielleicht, aber ich spreche nur Unterhaltungsdeutscher. Heute nacht werde ich ihren website duchlesen. Wenn Sie mir begegnen, hilfen Sie mir bitte!

No problem. In this case you learn how hard it is
to argue in a foreign language - but it´s always
good to evolve your skills. :)

And it would be a pleasure to help you with the
translations. :)
 
Last edited:
I don't think he will acknowledge this as the video because it shows the building had steel core columns. I sort of hoped that looking at it might jog his photographic memory and make him admit he has been wrong, but I'm way too optimistic!
Good find! An interesting bit of history there. What that video says definitely contradicts Chris, though.

Also, it is called Building the World Trade Center and came out in 1983.

The companion material on the PBS site is very nice, too.
The World Trade Center's tube-style construction, with steel columns found only along the exterior wall and within a central core, freed up nearly an acre of space on each floor for offices.
Oops.

ETA
Previous high-rises had relied for their structural integrity on a forest of supporting columns on each floor. Typically, architects spaced these 30 feet apart throughout the interior. The exterior walls of such buildings were merely curtain walls, which let light in and kept weather out but provided little support.

Such was not the case in the World Trade Center. Consulting engineers Leslie Robertson and John Skilling invented an entirely new method of construction. The forest of interior columns vanished; such columns only appeared in and around the central core of elevator shafts, stairwells, and bathrooms. Then it was nothing but open space—60 feet of it on two sides, 35 on the other two sides—before one reached the outside walls. These were not curtain walls but cages of steel columns spaced just over a yard apart, with 22 inches of glass in between.
Oops again.
 
Last edited:
Twisting, evaporating, free fall, arguments

It's amazing - following this thread.

The argument starts with the apparently vital premise that the towers fell at a free fall rate. By my estimate and watching the video: Free fall should take just under 10 seconds - the towers took somewhere between 15 and 20 (guesstimating since the top of the building becomes obscured by the dust cloud before reaching bottom and the initial half second or so of movement (about 1 meter) downward might be hard to see on the zoomed out image). Of course the collapse actually happened many tens of meters from the top, which might actually shorten the time required in a free fall state.

There was also the alleged total pulverization of the buildings. This didn't happen either. It took months to haul the debris away. Some was in fact pulverized. A bunch wasn't - several stories of debris lay at the foundation obviously not pulverized, well crunched, but not pulverized.

When those arguments are obliterated, which ostensibly were core of the conspiracy theory, other arguments take their place - such as the respiratory issues encountered. Seeing all the dust in the air following the collapse I'd be surprised if the cleanup workers didn't have problems!

They cry that no other building before or since has collapsed due to fire. No other buildings before or since had nearly 100,000 pounds of jet fuel poured down their support structure and then lit on fire. The steel weakened until the weight above exceeded the remaining strength - the steel didn't need to melt - and the expected temperatures are sufficient for weakening.

Then it's that the roof didn't fall the right way. How do you know what the right way is? The puncture to the windows only marginally influence which direction the structure will collapse, and for the most part, it came straight down, perhaps the top slightly off center (and I don't care where the puncture was relative to the falling debris - it isn't relevant to the actual collapse).

They ask, "how about that plasma cloud?" What? Where did that come from. Regardless: proof no plasma cloud, blazing hotter than the surface of the sun, existed? Said cloud would shine equally as bright or brighter than our star. No alien death ray, or even New World Order death ray, need apply.

OK, then perhaps it was a controlled demolition. No, the demolitions experts can stay home. I've seen a few controlled demolitions - they don't fall exactly the way the towers did and saying they do doesn't make it so. A couple of jet aircraft full of fuel can, and did, do the job.

Of course, at this point, the argument turns to a discussion of the construction of the building and why such a building wouldn't fall just from the impact of a jet. Never mind their descriptions of the building don't match the evidence left after the collapse, nor the demonstrated actual construction of the buildings. Rather than cite documents demonstrably true, they post circular links to other sites claiming the buildings were built some other way, never actually arriving at real proof (or that we're even discussing the same building!) - it's incestuous and recursive.

Plus the evidence the CT believer presents as a concrete core seems to me to present the steel exoskeleton (what the windows were mounted to) with the detail (for evidence of 3 inch re-bar on 4 foot centers) being well below the resolution level available in the image.

However, once a CT zealot becomes convinced by the initial, invalid, arguments, there's no turning back. As every argument is ground finer than the dust coating the lungs of the rescue workers, the CT adherent must find other "proof" - but the proof continues to become crazier and crazier. The opportunity to admit defeat becomes more and more remote. More interestingly, they quickly claim their initial point was pointless and their current point is the one to consider - never mind that the initial point was required to get to the current one.

Once convinced the Government did it, no government reports prove otherwise. It's a death-spiral. Once in this feedback loop, no way out exists.

I find truly amazing how often the CT advocate claims to have developed these theories on their own before finding the other sites that agree with them. So many experts wasting their talents in other fields!

{CT MODE}
I've been soldering and assembling solid state circuits for decades - that qualifies me as an expert super-computer designer - and when one fails I can explain in exquisite detail what went wrong...
{/CT MODE}
Yeah, right.

{CT MODE}
Oh, and I can tell from a grainy photo taken from 2 miles away at wide angle, which model of mini-frame computer was rack mounted next to it. I've worked on many types of electronic devices and can tell from even the tiniest pixel exactly which is which...
{/CT MODE}
Yeah, right.

On the other hand, the term Troll seems appropriate for many CT posts I've seen.

jbs
 
I don't think he will acknowledge this as the video because it shows the building had steel core columns. I sort of hoped that looking at it might jog his photographic memory and make him admit he has been wrong, but I'm way too optimistic!

BTW, although I have not posted here before I have been following this thread closely. Call me nuts, but I find this thread very entertaining, just like I found Carlos' paranormal hat entertaining. It's the first thread I visit every day! I think this thread is just what the JREF needs: An educational look into the mind of a believer. Eternal optimist that I am, I keep hoping that someone will find a way to get through to the mind of this poor deluded soul. Somewhere out there there is someone who can find the right words to make it click in his head just how wrong he is.

No one, not even Christophera, is unreachable. Don't be discouraged; keep up the fight. I applaud all of you all for sticking with this thread.

That video shows the elevator guide rail support steel in the core area. Not "core columns." The steel in the core area is much smaller than that surrounding the core which dis exist.

The "MASSIVE BOX COLUMNS" were not inside the core only ringing the core area. If there were columns of that size inside the core they would be seen in many images and they are never seen.

Here is an image of what can only be a steel reinforced cast concrete core.
 
That video shows the elevator guide rail support steel in the core area. Not "core columns." The steel in the core area is much smaller than that surrounding the core which dis exist.

The "MASSIVE BOX COLUMNS" were not inside the core only ringing the core area. If there were columns of that size inside the core they would be seen in many images and they are never seen.

Here is an image of what can only be a steel reinforced cast concrete core.

Why doesn't the documentary mention a concrete core? Or show it being poured?
 
There was also the alleged total pulverization of the buildings. This didn't happen either. It took months to haul the debris away. Some was in fact pulverized. A bunch wasn't - several stories of debris lay at the foundation obviously not pulverized, well crunched, but not pulverized.

There were no large pieces of concrete and a 1300 foot steel reinforced cast concrete tube would leave massive pieces of concrete.

This image shows pulverized concrete.

http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs/2001/10/wtc/pdrm1943.jpg

The term "Digging Out" was used for what happened at GZ. This referes to diging steel out of sand and gravel. The steel of course was no pulverized.

Have you forgotten the many bodies shredded and buried in the local dump?

Collapses have bodies intact afterwards. There were very few. Nothing short of heavy steel and bent, buckled and blackened floor pan was left. No desks, file cabinets, no chairs no computers were found.

This essentially, for all intents and purposes IS "total pulverization".
 
AHA! I got it.

I bet Chris actually did see this documentary and is confusing the concrete retaining wall with core columns. The documentary makes a big deal out of both. Let years pass in a head full of muddled memories and POOF. Concrete core columns!

ETA The documentary mentions that the concrete retaining walls were steel reenforced. I really think I can explain what's happening in his addled brain.
 
Last edited:
Chris, please stop posting here and watch that video. It will show you footage of the steel core columns. Lots of it. Nothing more quickly and easily refutes everything you've said here. You're wrong. So wrong. The video shows you're wrong. The core columns were steel. Steel steel steel. Go see for yourself. Watch the cranes on top of the steel columns lifting steel columns into place.
 
AHA! I got it.

I bet Chris actually did see this documentary and is confusing the concrete retaining wall with core columns. The documentary makes a big deal out of both. Let years pass in a head full of muddled memories and POOF. Concrete core columns!

ETA The documentary mentions that the concrete retaining walls were steel reenforced. I really think I can explain what's happening in his addled brain.

Consider I spent 1 hour per night for 2 consecutive night watching "The Construction Of The Twin Towers." It mentioned the 18 minuite video and referred to it as a "Clelebratory Video" and differentiated itself as an "Intimat look at the construction process", and it was. Very detailed. No comparison to the 18 minute show.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom