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Science as racism?

Yes, one of the studies found a 9 point drop from mixed race(black/white) couples with a white mother compared to those mixed race couples with a black mother.

Do you have a link to this study? and can you explain this a little more? What does "a 9 point drop from mixed race(black/white) couples with a white mother compared to those mixed race couples with a black mother." mean? And how do you know so much about this field?



Yup, they find IQ correlates much more strongly to skin colour than genetics.
Nisbett goes over both of these points in his rebuttal of the paper Bpesta is defending. You can track down citations for all of the papers from there.

Now that is absolutely fascinating. What are critical responses to this study?
 
Do you have a link to this study? and can you explain this a little more? What does "a 9 point drop from mixed race(black/white) couples with a white mother compared to those mixed race couples with a black mother." mean? And how do you know so much about this field?
Honestly, I know bugger all about the field. I've read a mismeasure of man, some of the threads on this here, half the study bpesta's on about and a couple of critical reviews of it.

Think of mixed race black/white couples with children. If the mother is white, on average the child will have 9 more IQ points than if the mother is black.

The nice thing about study is that it controls for genetic influence (unless the genes for IQ are on the X chromosome) and measures the importance of the mother's culture on the child.

Now that is absolutely fascinating. What are critical responses to this study?

I have no idea, there are several studies dating back to the 70's showing similar results referenced in that paper I mentioned earlier.
Feel free to hunt down responses to them and let us know how it turns out ;) .
 
an untimed, widely used IQ test, and perhaps the single best measure of g in existence.
The best measure of g in existence... and yet, it give exactly the same results as IQ tests applied in 1917.

What does best mean, if it's no different?

How can you point to the unchanging results from 100 years ago while simultaneously arguing that the current results are better?

Another example of a smug but invalid criticism on your part
I have offered many criticisms. You have responded to the easy ones.

"Smug" is perhaps not the right word.
 
That would seem to suggest that cultural expectations play a significant role.

Or less intuitively (except for afrocentrists, in a case of tragic irony) it could suggest that melanin does indeed have an impact on intelligence.*


*Of course this is probably a much less likely explanation.
 
Honestly, I know bugger all about the field. I've read a mismeasure of man, some of the threads on this here, half the study bpesta's on about and a couple of critical reviews of it.

Think of mixed race black/white couples with children. If the mother is white, on average the child will have 9 more IQ points than if the mother is black.

The nice thing about study is that it controls for genetic influence (unless the genes for IQ are on the X chromosome) and measures the importance of the mother's culture on the child.



I have no idea, there are several studies dating back to the 70's showing similar results referenced in that paper I mentioned earlier.
Feel free to hunt down responses to them and let us know how it turns out ;) .

I'd really like a link to the biracial & white vs. black mothers study if anyone has it.
 
Honestly, I know bugger all about the field. I've read a mismeasure of man, some of the threads on this here, half the study bpesta's on about and a couple of critical reviews of it.

Think of mixed race black/white couples with children. If the mother is white, on average the child will have 9 more IQ points than if the mother is black.

The nice thing about study is that it controls for genetic influence (unless the genes for IQ are on the X chromosome) and measures the importance of the mother's culture on the child.

I haven't read the Nisbett study yet-- A white mother / black father pairing results in 9 more IQ points, on average, than does a black mother / white father pairing?

Am I getting that right from your summary?

If so, is Nisbett arguing that white mothers are more nurturing (or in better environments, on average) than are black mothers?

The race of the husband is confounded with race of the mother. Could nisbett argue having a white father results in a 9 point decrease in IQ???

Guess I gots more reading to do...
 
I haven't read the Nisbett study yet-- A white mother / black father pairing results in 9 more IQ points, on average, than does a black mother / white father pairing?

Am I getting that right from your summary?

If so, is Nisbett arguing that white mothers are more nurturing (or in better environments, on average) than are black mothers?

The race of the husband is confounded with race of the mother. Could nisbett argue having a white father results in a 9 point decrease in IQ???

Guess I gots more reading to do...

It could be, but I think even a purely genetic explanation for this particular difference could also possibly be viable, such as mtDNA is a responsible for a large share of the difference in the black/white IQ performance gap.
 
I'd really like a link to the biracial & white vs. black mothers study if anyone has it.

This is from Rushton and Jensen (2005).

It also addresses a little bit the admixture issue versus using "the old social theory of race".



In the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study, the IQs of the mixed-race
(Black/White) adoptees averaged between those of the “nonmixed” White and the
“nonmixed” Black adoptees, as expected under a genetic hypothesis (see Table 2).
Results from some other types of studies are also consistent with that hypothesis.
In her review, Shuey (1966) found that in 16 of 18 studies in which skin color
could be used as a proxy for amount of admixture, Blacks with lighter skin color
averaged higher scores than those with darker skin, although the magnitude of the
association was quite low (r  .10). The Black American average IQ of 85 (15
points higher than the sub-Saharan African average of 70; see Section 3) is also
consistent with the genetic hypothesis, given the approximately 20% White
admixture of Black Americans (Chakraborty, Kamboh, Nwankwo, & Ferrell,
1992; Parra et al., 1998). The mixed-race “Colored” population of South Africa
also has an average IQ of 85, intermediate to the respective African and White
means of 70 and 100 (Owen, 1992). Early studies of brain weight data also fit with
the genetic hypothesis. Bean (1906) found, as did Pearl (1934), that the greater the
amount of White admixture (judged independently from skin color), the higher the
mean brain weight at autopsy in Black groups. More recent data of this nature are
not available.

***

Although the studies of racial hybrids are generally consistent with the genetic
hypothesis, to date they are not conclusive. It may be true, for example, that
lighter skinned Cape Coloreds and African Americans have better nutrition, have
greater opportunities for learning, or are treated better by their societies. On the
other hand, the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study (Table 2) held many such
factors constant and removed the most frequently proposed causal agents such as
poverty, malnutrition, poor schools, and dysfunctional neighborhoods. Yet, here
too, the mixed-race children had a higher mean IQ than did the children of two
Black parents, and the means for each group were very similar to those for their
respective counterparts elsewhere in the United States. The discussion in this
section is particularly supportive of Loehlin’s (2000) conclusion that “Research
using larger samples and better techniques for estimating ancestry is called for and
quite feasible” (p. 188).
 
Yes, one of the studies found a 9 point drop from mixed race(black/white) couples with a white mother compared to those mixed race couples with a black mother.

Interesting, but not particularly astonishing.

Not long ago my wife mentioned a recent study that found that children's IQ is more strongly tied to the IQ of the mother than the father. Therefore if whites have a higher average IQ than blacks, then cross-racial couples with a white mother would be expected to have higher IQ children than cross-racial couples with a black mother.

I don't know what causes are suspected for this correlation. An obvious candidate is that the mother is more likely to be the primary caregiver, and therefore has a bigger impact on the child's environment. But I do not know whether research has happened into this.

Cheers,
Ben
 
I haven't read the Nisbett study yet-- A white mother / black father pairing results in 9 more IQ points, on average, than does a black mother / white father pairing?

Am I getting that right from your summary?

If so, is Nisbett arguing that white mothers are more nurturing (or in better environments, on average) than are black mothers?
Yes,yes, and yes.*
He's citing "Intellectual development of children from interracial matings: performance in infancy and at 4 years." by Willerman L,Naylor AF, and Myrianthopoulos NC(1974). I don't have pubmed access so I probably won't be reading it.

The race of the husband is confounded with race of the mother. Could nisbett argue having a white father results in a 9 point decrease in IQ???
No, you're not comparing like with like.
You'd have to compare white mother/black father with white mother/white father or black mother/black father with black mother/white father to show a white father => IQ drop.

*Well, better at bring up children so that they respond well to IQ tests rather than more nurturing.
 
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This is from Rushton and Jensen (2005).

It also addresses a little bit the admixture issue versus using "the old social theory of race".
)

Interesting, but seems rather primitive given the resources (such as genetic admixture testing) that we had available by 2005. Also, I'm bpesta, are you having trouble tracking down that white mother vs. black mother of mixed race child study? I'd think it would be useful to you for your work -I'm starting to doubt its existence because I don't think anybody has published an actual link to the study or a citation of it.
 
Interesting, but seems rather primitive given the resources (such as genetic admixture testing) that we had available by 2005. Also, I'm bpesta, are you having trouble tracking down that white mother vs. black mother of mixed race child study? I'd think it would be useful to you for your work -I'm starting to doubt its existence because I don't think anybody has published an actual link to the study or a citation of it.

I haven't been looking for it-- did you ask me to find it?
 
Interesting, but seems rather primitive given the resources (such as genetic admixture testing) that we had available by 2005. Also, I'm bpesta, are you having trouble tracking down that white mother vs. black mother of mixed race child study? I'd think it would be useful to you for your work -I'm starting to doubt its existence because I don't think anybody has published an actual link to the study or a citation of it.

It's referred to in The Black-White Test Score Gap......

"The Black-White Test Score Gap" published
in 1998. This book includes a chapter by Richard Nisbett, one of the most
prominent psychologists of our time with a reputation for methodological
sophistication, who reviews the evidence for the relations between "Race,
Genetics and IQ." I will provide an extensive quote from the
final section of his chapter (pp. 100-101:>>


Richard E. Nisbett is quoted thus:


<<"The studies most directly relevant to the question of whether the IQ
difference between blacks and whites is genetic in origin show no association
between IQ and African, as opposed to European, ancestry. A few older studies
of skin color are consistent with European superiority, but most are not. The
best modern study shown no relationship between IQ and European ancestry as
defined by blood group factors, but indicating that although there is a weak
relationship between skin color and IQ, this has nothing to do with European
ancestry. One other modern study of blood types also suggests that there is no
genetic difference in IQ between the races, while the other weakly suggest
African superiority. Studies of the children of black as against white GI
fathers in Germany and of the European heritage of black children in Chicago
show no advantage of European over African genes. a study of mixed-race
children shows that those with white mothers and black fathers have much
higher
IQs than those with black mothers and white fathers.... The evidence thus
indicates that if there are genetically determined IQ differences between the
races, they are too small to show with any regularity in studies covering a
wide range of populations and using a wide range of methodologies. This is an
extraordinary important conclusion.">>

Maybe you could ask for the book for Christmas..... :)

http://www.brookings.edu/press/books/blckwhit.htm
 
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It's referred to in The Black-White Test Score Gap......



Maybe you could ask for the book for Christmas..... :)

http://www.brookings.edu/press/books/blckwhit.htm

Very interesting. So according to Nesbitt (1998) "a study of mixed-race
children shows that those with white mothers and black fathers have much
higher IQs than those with black mothers and white fathers".

AndyAndy, can you provide more direct information about this particular study? Such as a link to it or at least the author of it? I'll poke around for it on my own, but if anyone else knows please share.
 
He's citing "Intellectual development of children from interracial matings: performance in infancy and at 4 years." by Willerman L,Naylor AF, and Myrianthopoulos NC(1974). I don't have pubmed access so I probably won't be reading it.

V
AndyAndy, can you provide more direct information about this particular study? Such as a link to it or at least the author of it? I'll poke around for it on my own, but if anyone else knows please share.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&cluster=2209873175706797063
 
Very interesting. So according to Nesbitt (1998) "a study of mixed-race
children shows that those with white mothers and black fathers have much
higher IQs than those with black mothers and white fathers".

AndyAndy, can you provide more direct information about this particular study? Such as a link to it or at least the author of it? I'll poke around for it on my own, but if anyone else knows please share.

This is a pdf of nisbitt on "race, genetics and IQ"

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~nisbett/racegen.pdf

In in he references the study as "willerman et al. 1974" (p7 of pdf)
 

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