This is NOT Dubya's National Guard

It's about time people realize that joining the national guard and military is not just a free ride to get an education, it actually involves concepts such as sacrifice, honor and duty.
 
Sabra said:
It's about time people realize that joining the national guard and military is not just a free ride to get an education, it actually involves concepts such as sacrifice, honor and duty.
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If they joined with the intent to get the "free" ride, by the time they're finished with their service, they've gotten a good block of instruction on duty, honor, country, and discipline.

The same cannot be said for those who never volunteer for military or other public service, and who instead pay for (or get society to pay for them) a multi-year indoctrination in leftist ideology from the American university system, which holds military service in distain, and never misses an opportunity to use the military service of others as a political/ideological weapon to destabilize our society.
 
Huntster said:
. . . who instead pay for (or get society to pay for them) a multi-year indoctrination in leftist ideology from the American university system, which holds military service in distain, and never misses an opportunity to use the military service of others as a political/ideological weapon to destabilize our society.
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That's funny, the "leftist" university near me also includes degrees in military science which can culiminate in an Officer's commission. Most of the young people in the ROTC program are highly motivated and learn skills that will dispel any stereotypes about a "butter bar with a map."

As a matter of fact, the university here holds ROTC cadets in high regard and many actually find the general studentry thankful of their dedication. As for "using the military service of others as a political/ideological weapon to destabilize our society," you DO remember the Swift Boat Wingnuts for Bush, don't you?
 
Huntster said:
If they joined with the intent to get the "free" ride, by the time they're finished with their service, they've gotten a good block of instruction on duty, honor, country, and discipline.

The same cannot be said for those who never volunteer for military or other public service, and who instead pay for (or get society to pay for them) a multi-year indoctrination in leftist ideology from the American university system, which holds military service in distain, and never misses an opportunity to use the military service of others as a political/ideological weapon to destabilize our society.
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Someone doesn't like college.
 
Mephisto said:
Originally Posted by Huntster
. . . who instead pay for (or get society to pay for them) a multi-year indoctrination in leftist ideology from the American university system, which holds military service in distain, and never misses an opportunity to use the military service of others as a political/ideological weapon to destabilize our society.
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That's funny....
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I don't find it funny. I find it unfortunate.

...the "leftist" university near me also includes degrees in military science which can culiminate in an Officer's commission. Most of the young people in the ROTC program are highly motivated and learn skills that will dispel any stereotypes about a "butter bar with a map."
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I agree. Just because the majority of university professors are leftists doesn't mean they all are. Additionally, thank God, universities like Hilldale College do exist.

As a matter of fact, the university here holds ROTC cadets in high regard and many actually find the general studentry thankful of their dedication. As for "using the military service of others as a political/ideological weapon to destabilize our society," you DO remember the Swift Boat Wingnuts for Bush, don't you?
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Yup.

Where are they now?
 
Wheezebucket said:
Someone doesn't like college.
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And someone also doesn't realize that the basis for critical thinking is most often TAUGHT at college. Of course, skepticism isn't helpful when you're trying to pull the wool over someone's legs. ;)
 
Wheezebucket said:
Originally Posted by Huntster
If they joined with the intent to get the "free" ride, by the time they're finished with their service, they've gotten a good block of instruction on duty, honor, country, and discipline.

The same cannot be said for those who never volunteer for military or other public service, and who instead pay for (or get society to pay for them) a multi-year indoctrination in leftist ideology from the American university system, which holds military service in distain, and never misses an opportunity to use the military service of others as a political/ideological weapon to destabilize our society.
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Someone doesn't like college.
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Been there, done that. Got the degree to prove it, too.

It's not higher education I dislike, it's ideological indocrination, and having to pay for it in order to get the degree.
 
Mephisto said:
Originally Posted by Wheezebucket
Someone doesn't like college.
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And someone also doesn't realize that the basis for critical thinking is most often TAUGHT at college. Of course, skepticism isn't helpful when you're trying to pull the wool over someone's legs. ;)
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And someone else doesn't realize that critical thought is not the be-all, end-all of the human existence or human progress.

I'm also well aware that skepticism is helpful keeping your eyes and mind from being covered with wool. In fact, I'm exercising it right now.
 
Mephisto said:
Originally Posted by Huntster
Where are they now?
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I would suspect, after having smeared the combat experiences of a decorated veteran, they have returned to their shady lair under a rock until Karl Rove needs them again.
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Well, then, I hope they're still around when needed. I'd hate for smear campaigns to be used only against conservatives.

I'll note that there were no forged documents used to smear Senator Kerry.
 
Sabra said:
It's about time people realize that joining the national guard and military is not just a free ride to get an education, it actually involves concepts such as sacrifice, honor and duty.
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Not to mention living up to a contractual obligation to go if called.
 
Huntster said:
I'll note that there were no forged documents used to smear Senator Kerry.
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I agree with you 100% regarding critical thought, but I hope you'll also note that neither Kerry nor any other veterans forged documents to discredit anyone.
 
Huntster said:
Well, then, I hope they're still around when needed. I'd hate for smear campaigns to be used only against conservatives.

I'll note that there were no forged documents used to smear Senator Kerry.
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The Swifties occupy a special place in the smear hall of fame. I don't think there has ever been a smear campaign with the same combination of vileness, dishonesty, funding, and success. I'm hoping your comment was sarcastic because anybody who values the truth, such as skeptics presumably, should be opposed.

Memogate, though certainly deplorable, was barely a blip on the radar in comparison.
 
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Mephisto said:
Originally Posted by Huntster
I'll note that there were no forged documents used to smear Senator Kerry.
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I agree with you 100% regarding critical thought, but I hope you'll also note that neither Kerry nor any other veterans forged documents to discredit anyone.
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A strong agreement from me regarding that. Veterans, who (generally) learned the value of honor, don't need to stoop to such treachery.

I'll also point out that Senator Kerry doesn't need his boatmates to discredit him today. To borrow a couple of biblical phrases:

I'm not worthy for you to come under my roof. Simply say the words,......
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......and thy soul shall be revealed.

It is not what goes into one, but what comes out which defiles thee.
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varwoche said:
....I'm hoping your comment was sarcastic because anybody who values the truth, such as skeptics presumably, should be opposed......
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I tend to be the sarcastic type. The Swifty event was an unfortunate occurrance.

However, I point out that those men were the Senator's boatmates (not remote journalists seeking dirt), the whole thing was regarding the same type of smear leveled at the President, and while playing dirty with dirty people is no excuse for sin, it is a natural consequence, and should be expected.

The whole rutted, two-way-street should serve as a lesson for us all.
 
Huntster said:
However, I point out that those men were the Senator's boatmates (not remote journalists seeking dirt)
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Correction: One of the ~260 Swifties was a crewmate of Kerry's. Two or three were on missions with Kerry but on different boats. The remainder were no more witness to Kerry's actions in combat than Ronald McDonald. Yet they all participated in a campaign the centerpiece of which was that Kerry scammed his medals. These men are abject liars of a high order.

It's fitting that the term swiftboat has become synonymous with political smear.
 
RandFan said:
:rolleyes: Is plain old venom ok? I note you don't complain about the venom directed at George Bush so I guess you only have a problem with the deceit, right?
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I'm sorry.
Please show me where I missed some other steaming pile of deceit and venom in this thread.
 
Mephisto said:
Who deserves venom more than a soldier who can't even prove that he finished out the "cushy" non-combat assignment his father won him through political connections?

You can bet the soldiers who are returning from Iraq only to go AWOL at the chance of another tour will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, whereas our fearless leader (who is responsible for a whole NEW generation of disabled veterans) simply had his military records sealed and deemed OFF LIMITS by the Pentagon.

Talk about deceit!
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He wasn't a soldier, he was a pilot, he was in the Air National Guard, and he was one of tens of thousands who pursued the Air Force and ANG as a way to serve.

I will note that the Cold War and Europe were, in the early 1970's, where the Big issues still was, and that reinforcing Europe etc were not trivial military responsibilities.

Viet Nam hurt, and was a war, and lost us too damned many good men, but it wasn't the only issue in town. US was playing Global Power. It needed lots of bodies to do that, even Air National Guard fighter pilots.

The Air National Guard still deploys, and still fights. Head on over to Balad some day, and watch Air National Guard guys duck mortars.

You'll doubtless feel better. :p

ETA: Mephisto, are you gonna crap on my cousin too? The day he got his draft notice he enlisted in the US Navy. (This was during Viet Nam.) He served a 4/2 contract as a radar operator, honorable discharge. Is he deceitful also? Is anyone not in the Infantry inherently deceitful?

DR
 
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I can sort of see a good national interest reason for Bush to serve in the Texas Air Guard rather than being sent to Viet Nam. His father being such a big wheel in the CIA would have made GWB a high value prize for the North Vietnamese. He might have been captured, shipped to some Red Chinese secret lab, brainwashed, implanted with orders to sabotage US operations, returned in a prisoner exchange, then gone on to high level public office - unconsciously waiting for the secret code words that would set him on his programmed mission of destruction.
 
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