Another Steel-Framed Building Collapses Due to Fire

You can also right click the link and DL the file to your hard drive.
 
Bell said:
Lookit! No fire here...

http://www.cfdhistory.com/jpgs/Hamiltons2.jpg

Or here...

http://www.unitedstatesfireprotection.com/images/projects/cook-county-fire.jpg

Nope, not here either...

http://www.gla.ac.uk/ibls/ASU/bower_fire/01.jpg

More buildings not on fire...

http://www.newlondonfirefighters.org/scrapbookpage/firespage/447bankstreet/Bank01.jpg
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You know whats in these pics (save for the one of the church) that is not in the WTC 7 photos?

Firefighters fighting the fire.....
 
I hope Russell isn't claiming there was NO fire on the floors above 10-15.

You can still SEE the burn marks where flames were jetting out of the windows on the floors 22, 29, and 30.

[qimg]http://www.pentagonresearch.com/lc2/wtcdraft.jpg[/qimg]
 
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Russell Pickering said:
Fascinating discussion.

I love watching people talk about something they know nothing about!
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And you seem to know more?

Such a simple error extrapolated into a personal attack. That literally is all you guys have.
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Is that all you see? Did you not read my post?

I am surprised at you LashL. I explained that to you in great detail via email. Then you have to twist and exaggerate it. Sad. Trusting certain people is just a mistake.
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I'll let him take care of that one.

Well I haven't done an exact word count - but it is a bunch without any photo or video of significant fire at WTC 7.
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What about the firefighters? I don't remember anyone going inside to take pictures of fires so that someone who doesn't understand what creates smoke can know. I mean really.

You guys received a perfect scientific description of what is happening with the smoke and exact statistics on collapses and nothing is ever enough for you.
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Its a speculation based on a single photo.

P.S. Firefighter by proxy - ordinary construction and wood frame structural collapse are different. That is why the WTC scenario of 3 buildings is the first time it has ever happened in history!!
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Yeah and it was the first time big aircraft were purposely flown into our own buildings. Do you purposely forget that little detail, or are you just retarded?
 
Russell Pickering said:
I have taken the time to highlight a couple for you. You do the math. Of the 3 purely steel frame construction buildings that had TOTAL collapse every one of them was at WTC - WTC 1, WTC 2, WTC 7. All the buildings where the appearance of explosives was related to us by over 40 firefighters.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/oralhistories/explosions.html

Probably just another 9/11 "coincidence".





Just a question for your RusselL, you claim the appearence of explosives was related by 40 firefighters. I have read through your links and I cannot find a single one that says "explosives", all of the firefighters talk about explosions. Now these are two very different things. How can you justify the wild leap from one to the other?
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@general question:

Could someone in here tell me where i can find the images
that proves that WTC 7 didn´t fall in it´s own footprint?
I forgot where i saw them...

Thanks in advance,
Oliver :)
 
Oliver said:
@general question:

Could someone in here tell me where i can find the images
that proves that WTC 7 didn´t fall in it´s own footprint?
I forgot where i saw them...

Thanks in advance,
Oliver :)
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I've got pics showing damage to the adjacent buildings from the collapse on the SLC WTC 7 page.
 
Russell Pickering said:
Here are some actual statistics for you (done prior to Madrid which did not suffer total collapse and was not primarily steel. Please don't compare Madrid fire involvement which was fully involved with WTC 7.):
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I notice your table does not include the Kader Toy Factory fire. In this fire, 3 steel-frame multi-story buildings suffered total collapse in a very short space of time, on the same day. It is the worst industrial accident in history.

Perhaps steel buildings only collapse in 3's?

-Gumboot
 
Oliver said:
@general question:

Could someone in here tell me where i can find the images
that proves that WTC 7 didn´t fall in it´s own footprint?
I forgot where i saw them...

Thanks in advance,
Oliver :)
Click to expand...
Here's one I use a lot.

8790449b8276ba3e1.jpg

​
 
Russell Pickering said:
Fascinating discussion.

I love watching people talk about something they know nothing about!

Such a simple error extrapolated into a personal attack. That literally is all you guys have.

I am surprised at you LashL. I explained that to you in great detail via email. Then you have to twist and exaggerate it. Sad. Trusting certain people is just a mistake.

Well I haven't done an exact word count - but it is a bunch without any photo or video of significant fire at WTC 7.

You guys received a perfect scientific description of what is happening with the smoke and exact statistics on collapses and nothing is ever enough for you.

P.S. Firefighter by proxy - ordinary construction and wood frame structural collapse are different. That is why the WTC scenario of 3 buildings is the first time it has ever happened in history!!
Click to expand...

You haven't refuted a single word I've said, Russell. You've simply tried to pretend to do so by obfuscation, as usual. It is not I who knows not of which I speak. You, on the other hand...

And no, this has nothing at all to do with our email conversations, which I have taken great pains to ensure remain private, and which I have taken great pains to ensure that I do not inadvertently disclose here. I've cited only the things that you have posted publicly. Nice try, but you are just making things up again. But since you brought it up, your email "explanation" for your lack of knowledge on basic firefighting subjects was not at all convincing. Like I said, I am grateful that my partner's life is not dependent upon Seattle standards if your knowledge of firefighting and fire related topics is indicative of those standards. You have not demonstrated a level of firefighting knowledge or education that comes even remotely close to that which would be expected here.

Have you ever actually fought fires or were you engaged as an EMS with the Seattle FD?

Moreover, this isn't a "personal attack" at all; rather it is informed observation combined with input from relevant professionals. You would do well to try utllizing such standards sometime.
 
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Does this hole go all the way down?

WTC7 hole.jpg


If so that is a serious amount of damage to the structure!
 
I find it totally befddling:
a wire Rabbit cage, hit by a paper airplane, and with a lit candle in it proves the concept that a steel building can't be damaged by fire.
1, 2, 3 and several story steel-framed buildings coming down simply because of fire is irrelevant.
da$n. What am going to be coming up next? Who is feeding this monster (Hudson & Landry--thanks!)
 
Russell Pickering said:
I see you guys have resorted to personal attacks in the form of unfounded lies that can be definitively disproved. I already displayed the documentation on being a firefighter.

Here are some actual statistics for you (done prior to Madrid which did not suffer total collapse and was not primarily steel. Please don't compare Madrid fire involvement which was fully involved with WTC 7.):




I have taken the time to highlight a couple for you. You do the math. Of the 3 purely steel frame construction buildings that had TOTAL collapse every one of them was at WTC - WTC 1, WTC 2, WTC 7. All the buildings where the appearance of explosives was related to us by over 40 firefighters.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/oralhistories/explosions.html

Probably just another 9/11 "coincidence".

Please read these reports for the actual details. Try and find another steel frame building over 20 floors made purely of structural steel that suffered total collapse. Or for that matter ANY total collapse of ANY building made of steel except at the WTC.

http://www.fpemag.com/archives/article.asp?issue_id=27&i=153

http://www.haifire.com/presentations/Historical_Collapse_Survey.pdf

Most Thorough - http://www.bfrl.nist.gov/866/pubs/NISTGCR02-843.pdf

You can't argue with these scientific studies and comprehensive studies of all significant collapses in history.

Purely steel - Total collapse = 3.

To see the other fires that only caused beams to fall, major damage to floors or significant structural damage, go here.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

That will be all until you deal with the science of the drafting of smoke on the leeward side of a building and/or show ANY photo or video of substantial fires in WTC 7.
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Where is the Madrid building?

Steel only portion that burned fell all over the place!!!!!

Tell us why the building in Philadelphia did not fail??? and where is it now???

Do building fall in fires?

simple easy question?

Why have other steel frame only building not fallen?

Can steel frame buildings fall?

You left out thousands of steel frame buildings that failed where there was fire.
 
Russell Pickering said:
I see you guys have resorted to personal attacks in the form of unfounded lies that can be definitively disproved. I already displayed the documentation on being a firefighter.
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Personal attacks? Why you always present both sides in a far an impartial way. I was just asking if a building can fail in a fire? Thought a fireman can tell me. The fireman gives me the CT standard. Please do not tell me about Madrid you say. Why? because the steel only portion fell? Why can you use it and not me? If Madrid had no concrete core, would it fall all the way? Could it? Where is the Madrid building now? Do small building, despite being ravage by fire, have greater chance surviving possible global collapse?

Can a building fall if the fire is not fought? (yes or no, can a building)

Is it true if you do not fight a fire in a building it can fall, fail, and be destroyed? Why is steel so easy to make weak? Are you a fireman, can you talk about steel buildings?

So I am upset with a fireman who, due to his political bias, does not tell the truth when it comes to fighting fires and how buildings do fail! Or am I wrong to get upset when I think I have a guy pushing only one side and ignoring his training and knowledge to mislead others? Are you misleading me? Can building fall due to fire and other damages?

Could WTC7 fail due to fire? Could the damage to the shell help the airflow to aid the fires? Are you missing something when you seem to be a CT guy who does not want the WTC7 to of failed due to fire?

You have enough firemen saying things about WTC7. Why are you incapable of covering what could happen?

Why have you failed to tell us why as a fireman building 7 could fail due to fire. Are you fireman or just a lemming in the 9/11 truth movement.

Seen your post over at the LC forum. Loose Change, that is the fictional parody of 9/11 by Dylan like the twilight zone or something, just fictional, and now the bible for the truth movement? How do you feel about being used by LC for their next fictional account of 9/11? (fictional since the conclusions will be wrong)

Funny how you actually think there is more than fiction to Loose Change. Is this why you are not coming forth with real help?

But you have already put you money all in one bag, a bag of lies on WTC7! You will never stop spreading your idea, your WORDS, "irrefutable evidence like the demolition of WTC7".

You have a closed mind and WTC7 is a done deal with your "irrefutable evidence… the demolition of WTC7".

Share with us your irrefutable evidence on WTC7.

Since you already have this evidence you are not here to discuss WTC7.

Go "focus on the irrefutable evidence like the demolition of WTC7". Your words in quotes. You have no reason to discuses WTC7. You have irrefutable evidence, just like Charlie Sheen.
 
Russell Pickering said:
I see you guys have resorted to personal attacks in the form of unfounded lies that can be definitively disproved. I already displayed the documentation on being a firefighter.

Here are some actual statistics for you (done prior to Madrid which did not suffer total collapse and was not primarily steel. Please don't compare Madrid fire involvement which was fully involved with WTC 7.):

Please read these reports for the actual details. Try and find another steel frame building over 20 floors made purely of structural steel that suffered total collapse. Or for that matter ANY total collapse of ANY building made of steel except at the WTC.
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Do not pick any small building of steel? Why does steel fail in fire Russell?
Only pick those over 20 floors!!!! What happens to those under 20 floors?

Don't look behind the curtain!!!!

A few questions on your Charts:

Where is One Meridian Plaza today?

Why did the fire in One Meridian Plaza not destroy the building?

If the fire in One Meridian Plaza had continued could the building of failed? Is it possible?

With respect to One Meridian Plaza, please explain all the factors you would consider being a fireman as you fight the fire; and explain what happen and what they thought could happen, plus the disposition of the building?

WTC7 sustained an amount of damage after WTC2/1 fell. Knowing that and there was fuel stored in the building. Is it possible for WTC7 to fail?

WTC1/2 sustained aircraft impacts 7 to 10 times greater than the aircraft design impact planned for. With that in mind and 10,000 gallons fuel to start fires in the building and plenty of air due to large holes in the building. Could WTC1/2 fail due to fire on 9/11?

You seem to ignore the very proof of fire failure of WTC1/2 and WTC7.
 
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