Woo on the History Channel? re Edgar Cayce

[Rodney]

I imagine you know more about Cayce than I do, Rodney. You tell me if the cure worked.

Cayce prescribe bedbug juice on two occasions. No specific follow-up exists regarding the efficacy of the treatment in either case. However, in the first case, the reading was for a 63-year old man, and he lived another 24 years after that. In the second case, the subject of the reading reported eight months later that he was "feeling fine."

Certainly, Cayce's prescription of laetrile for cancer is regarded by "non-holistic" doctors as downright dangerous.

As I noted on post #2390 on this thread -- http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1642503&highlight=laetrile#post1642503 -- "[Robert Todd] Carroll states that Cayce 'was the first to recommend laetrile as a cancer cure.' This is downright absurd because, as Christine noted on the Cayce thread, laetrile was not even synthesized until after Cayce's death. Further, I have checked Cayce's readings on-line to see whether Cayce ever recommended bitter almonds or apricot pits, from which laetrile is derived, and discovered that the answer is no. So apparently Carroll is basing his unfounded charge on the fact that Cayce recommended sweet almonds as a cancer preventative. But sweet almonds have nothing to do with laetrile and HAVE been found to help prevent at least some types of cancer."

I definitely have a mind, or a sensorium, and I believe it is a by-product of the neurochemical processes in my brain. I don't believe there is a part of me that will live on after I die.

However, I'm asking a straight question. What makes prescribing something under a supposed trance somehow more "thorough" and "inclusive" than doing it with eyes wide open?

First, I think you will find that there was nothing "supposed" about Cayce's trances. Second, there isn't always an advantage to a trance, but in many cases Cayce seemed aware of a condition that conventional doctors were not aware of. The Aime Dietrich case is a good example. See post #67 on this thread-- http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62560&page=2&highlight=aime+dietrich

 

[Big Al]

Cayce prescribe bedbug juice on two occasions. No specific follow-up exists regarding the efficacy of the treatment in either case. However, in the first case, the reading was for a 63-year old man, and he lived another 24 years after that. In the second case, the subject of the reading reported eight months later that he was "feeling fine."

They were suffering, I believe, from dropsy - not usually a fatal affliction.

As I noted on post #2390 on this thread -- http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1642503&highlight=laetrile#post1642503 -- "[Robert Todd] Carroll states that Cayce 'was the first to recommend laetrile as a cancer cure.' This is downright absurd because, as Christine noted on the Cayce thread, laetrile was not even synthesized until after Cayce's death. Further, I have checked Cayce's readings on-line to see whether Cayce ever recommended bitter almonds or apricot pits, from which laetrile is derived, and discovered that the answer is no. So apparently Carroll is basing his unfounded charge on the fact that Cayce recommended sweet almonds as a cancer preventative. But sweet almonds have nothing to do with laetrile and HAVE been found to help prevent at least some types of cancer."

I stand corrected.

First, I think you will find that there was nothing "supposed" about Cayce's trances. Second, there isn't always an advantage to a trance, but in many cases Cayce seemed aware of a condition that conventional doctors were not aware of. The Aime Dietrich case is a good example. See post #67 on this thread-- http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62560&page=2&highlight=aime+dietrich

That's not answering my question, Rodney. I'd like to know what makes Cayce (or any other supposed healer) "holistic".

 

[Rodney]

They were suffering, I believe, from dropsy - not usually a fatal affliction.

The point is that, while bedbug juice might sound like a bizzare treatment, it certainly seems not to have done any harm. Was it efficacious? I don't know.

I stand corrected.

I appreciate that. My only advice is, when it comes to Cayce, be skeptical of the skeptics. I don't know of a single one who has more than a superficial knowledge of Cayce.

That's not answering my question, Rodney. I'd like to know what makes Cayce (or any other supposed healer) "holistic".

First, I was responding to Psiload's question: "Given that the the field of medicine was Cayce's strongest suit, what lasting contributions has he made to the field of modern medicine? Which treatment, therapy, remedy, etc...?" Second, I think holistic healing emphasizes the whole person, and not just symptoms. It does seem to me that conventional medicine is becoming more holistic; for example, in Cayce's time, conventional psoriasis treatment centered on skin creams, and now it centers on the immune system. However, Cayce's psoriasis treatment always centered on the circulatory system, which I think can be taken as a synonym for the immune system.

 

[gdtbiker]

What's with the History Channel?? I'm watching it right now and it's all about how amazing Edgar Cayce was. Their website here tells it all really.

Is this garbage or what?! How does the History Channel get away with this stuff? Shouldn't they apply for Randi's Million? Seems like I've seen a lot more woo going on with the History Channel lately, like rewriting history!

Since I originally started this thread, I feel a small twinge to keep up on the posts here and perhaps to make a token response. On the other hand, it has taken me a whole day to stop smoking about it - it really got my goat for some time and I ranted to several friends and family members about it. Some, surprisingly, had never heard of Cayce and this is probably just as well - they've somehow avoided the insult to their intelligence and powers of reasoning.

In any case, to answer my own questions:

What's with THC? - Well, I'm learning that whatever it is, THC is keeping company with at least several other shows that one would think SHould represent authoritative and trustworthy sources of information, but don't.

Is this garbage or what? - I remain unconvinced of the "or what"! and am still having visions of smelly trash containers.

How do they get away with this stuff? - Apparently, because of a large enough population of believers that are suckers for it and will "defend" the ideas as Rodney has exemplified.

Shouldn't they apply for Randi's Million? - I withdraw the question - it's absurd. Or rather Was absurd - it's History!

 

[Mojo]

No, that's Nostradamus. Cayce didn't do quatrains. And, as I've mentioned on other threads, Cayce's weakest suit was likely his prophecies. His strongest suit was medical diagnoses.

Some of his prophecies, such as his prophecy that Hitler would rise to power in Germany, made in 1934, were very accurate.

As far as diagnosis goes, you might like to see a discussion of what Rodney seems to regard as Cayce's best evidence in this thread.

Many people have claimed success by following Cayce's treatments. See this discussion on another thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1660125&highlight=psoriasis#post1660125

You might like to read the discussion that came before Rodney's final post in that thread.

 

[Mojo]

However, Cayce's psoriasis treatment always centered on the circulatory system, which I think can be taken as a synonym for the immune system.

What makes you think that?

 

[Big Al]

The point is that, while bedbug juice might sound like a bizzare treatment, it certainly seems not to have done any harm. Was it efficacious? I don't know.

Homeopath belivevers make the same shoulder-shrugging claim. "Oh, well, it doesn't do any harm".

My only advice is, when it comes to Cayce, be skeptical of the skeptics.

I wouldn't be able to call myself a skeptic if I didn't.

Second, I think holistic healing emphasizes the whole person, and not just symptoms. It does seem to me that conventional medicine is becoming more holistic; for example, in Cayce's time, conventional psoriasis treatment centered on skin creams, and now it centers on the immune system. However, Cayce's psoriasis treatment always centered on the circulatory system, which I think can be taken as a synonym for the immune system.

Well, here we are at "holistic" again. Please, Rodney, explain to me why prescribing bedbug juice for dropsy (or wormwood smoke, or peach-tree poutice or whatever) addresses the "whole person", whereas a modern thiazole diuretic will clear up just the problem the patient actually complained about.

PS - I have fairly bad psoriasis. As far as I can see, we're still at the topical creams stage. Coal tar and steroid creams.

Can you tell me what Cayce's treatment was, and how it centred on the circulatory system? I may try it. However, I think it's a very loose connection to say that concentrating on a blood-borne agent is in any way understanding the modern view of psoriasis as an auto-immune disease.

 

[Polaris]

for example, in Cayce's time, conventional psoriasis treatment centered on skin creams, and now it centers on the immune system. However, Cayce's psoriasis treatment always centered on the circulatory system, which I think can be taken as a synonym for the immune system.

But does it work? I'm not asking academically - I've tried everything.

 

[Rodney]

But does it work? I'm not asking academically - I've tried everything.

See this link for psoriasis case reports using techniques based on the Cayce readings:
http://www.meridianinstitute.com/psorias5.html

 

[Rodney]

What makes you think that?

I discussed this in post # 297 on this thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1660125&highlight=psoriasis#post1660125

"'A major breakthrough in understanding psoriasis occurred in the mid '80s, when it was identified as an immune disorder. It is now thought that an immune system response to as yet unknown stimuli activates many T-cells (a type of white blood cell that fights infection and other disease) in the skin. This, in turn, triggers inflammation and excessive skin cell production.'

"And what is the immune system? 'The immune system is made up of a network of cells, tissues, and organs that work together to protect the body. The cells that are part of this defense system are white blood cells, or leukocytes (pronounced: loo-kuh-sytes). They come in two basic types (more on these below), which combine to seek out and destroy the organisms or substances that cause disease.

'Leukocytes are produced or stored in many locations throughout the body, including the thymus, spleen, and bone marrow. For this reason, they are called the lymphoid (pronounced: lim-foyd) organs. There are also clumps of lymphoid tissue throughout the body, primarily in the form of lymph nodes, that house the leukocytes.

'The leukocytes circulate through the body between the organs and nodes by means of the lymphatic (pronounced: lim-fah-tik) vessels. (You can think of the lymphatic vessels as a type of highway between the rest stops that are the lymphoid organs and lymph nodes). Leukocytes can also circulate through the blood vessels. In this way, the immune system works in a coordinated manner to monitor the body for substances that might cause problems.'"

 

[KilgoreTrout]

See this link for psoriasis case reports using techniques based on the Cayce readings:
http://www.meridianinstitute.com/psorias5.html

Have any sources from a respected medical journal?

 

[Rodney]

Have any sources from a respected medical journal?

No, but that isn't what Polaris and Big Al are asking. Since the conventional medical wisdom seems to have failed them, they seem open to alternative treatment.

 

[Polaris]

See this link for psoriasis case reports using techniques based on the Cayce readings:
http://www.meridianinstitute.com/psorias5.html

I'll read this over later. There is some chance that it's dietary - it didn't really start until after I had my gall bladder removed back in 2001. That said, I still have to see a doctor about it - as of right now it's a self-diagnosis, though unless there's some other disease out there with identical symptoms of psoriasis which will be exacerbated by the OTC treatments for it, I'm pretty safe. To err on the side of caution I'm not using coal tar yet - finances are keeping me from visiting a dermatologist.

I suspect the relation between no gall bladder and my psoriasis (which, frustratingly is on my face) is a spurious one. If there's a relation between psoriasis and dandruff, I found that improving water quality and adding a lot of aerobic exercise helped get rid of the latter for a while (I was in Italy on a university-related tour, so I did a lot of forced all-day walking, and the water was fantastic).

Sadly I can't go back to Italy at my discretion, so I'm forced to do the unthinkable - seriously consider the findings of a guy who claims to predict the future. HELP!

 

[Polaris]

No, but that isn't what Polaris and Big Al are asking. Since the conventional medical wisdom seems to have failed them, they seem open to alternative treatment.

The last time I went to a dermatologist, it hadn't quite progressed to flakes and scales, it was merely unbearable itching and dryness, particularly after showers. I went to see the specialist the first time I scratched myself until I drew blood. The stuff he gave me was a bottle the size of a conventional hair-mousse can, with the thin nozzle. You know the kind. Well, at $155 a pop, that was out of the question.

He told me the same thing that Cayce mentions in that link - there is no cure, and nobody knows the cause. I've been using Dermarest but it's far from perfect. All it does is make my skin shiny for a few hours and then the flakes come back even more pronounced. It's still worst after a shave and a shower, I look like lizard man. And the itching never went away, it's just not as bad or frequent.

 

[Loss Leader]

I'm not getting into this again. In a previous thread, Rodney challeneged himself to state Cayce's greatest acomplishments as a psychic. The case he chose, in which Cayce is supposed to have healed viral encephalitis using chiropractic manipulations, was so handily and thoroughly debunked that Rodney abandoned the thread.

In the end, several medical doctors flatly stated that the events outlined in the story were medically impossible.

Read the whole horible mess here. I think the Cayce stuff gets going around page 3 or 4.

Cayce was, without question, an extraordinary salesman of himself. And he seemed to be genuinely interested in politics and economics. His "psychic" predictions appear to me to be about as good as any decent stockbroker. My favorite? 1934 when he predicted that Hitler would soon come to power in Germany. I'm not sure you can call that psychic, though. Hitler had been elected Chancellor in 1933.

 

[Rodney]

Some of his prophecies, such as his prophecy that Hitler would rise to power in Germany, made in 1934, were very accurate.

I just checked Cayce's Hitler readings. He gave only one in 1934 that mentioned Hitler. That one, given on January 19, 1934, stated in response to a question:

"Q) Explain the relation between the information just given regarding Germany and the changes for this year, and the information already given through this channel on Hitler.

"(A) Read that, my children, that has been given; that there was the destiny for the man, if he did not allow Imperialism to enter in - and it is entering. Hence must be called into question."

So, while Cayce had given a November 4, 1933 reading that praised Hitler, he did not after the fact in 1933, 1934, or any other time claim that Hitler would rise to power.

 

[Loss Leader]

I just checked Cayce's Hitler readings. He gave only one in 1934 that mentioned Hitler. That one, given on January 19, 1934, stated in response to a question:

"Q) Explain the relation between the information just given regarding Germany and the changes for this year, and the information already given through this channel on Hitler.

"(A) Read that, my children, that has been given; that there was the destiny for the man, if he did not allow Imperialism to enter in - and it is entering. Hence must be called into question."

So, while Cayce had given a November 4, 1933 reading that praised Hitler, he did not after the fact in 1933, 1934, or any other time claim that Hitler would rise to power.

Well, if you're willing to stand by that statement, I'm willing to accept it. It appears clear that whatever the heck Cayce said about Hitler in January of 1934, it was completely incomprehensible. So, he's either a terrible psychic for praising Hitler in 1933 or a terrible psychic for making not the least bit of sense in 1934. Take your pick.

 

[Rodney]

I'm not getting into this again. In a previous thread, Rodney challeneged himself to state Cayce's greatest acomplishments as a psychic. The case he chose, in which Cayce is supposed to have healed viral encephalitis using chiropractic manipulations, was so handily and thoroughly debunked that Rodney abandoned the thread.

In the end, several medical doctors flatly stated that the events outlined in the story were medically impossible.

Read the whole horible mess here. I think the Cayce stuff gets going around page 3 or 4.

We agree on one thing: I encourage everyone to review that thread. However, you will find that: (a) A major participant on that thread, Huntsman, said he was going to solicit the opinion of several doctors about the facts of the Aime Dietrich case, but then stopped posting; see his post #321, among many others. (b) Two skeptical doctors weighed in on the Dietrich case and both thought it unlikely that Cayce's treatment would have worked, but gave contradictory opinions; see my post #359. (c) Cayce never said that Aime Dietrich had viral encephalitis; that is the opinion of the doctor found by Loss Leader; see again my post #359. (d) I have not abandoned the thread, but I haven't been able to find another doctor to weigh in on the Dietrich case.

Cayce was, without question, an extraordinary salesman of himself. And he seemed to be genuinely interested in politics and economics. His "psychic" predictions appear to me to be about as good as any decent stockbroker. My favorite? 1934 when he predicted that Hitler would soon come to power in Germany. I'm not sure you can call that psychic, though. Hitler had been elected Chancellor in 1933.

You're in error, I just posted about this here.

 

[Rodney]

Well, if you're willing to stand by that statement, I'm willing to accept it. It appears clear that whatever the heck Cayce said about Hitler in January of 1934, it was completely incomprehensible. So, he's either a terrible psychic for praising Hitler in 1933 or a terrible psychic for making not the least bit of sense in 1934. Take your pick.

On the contrary, his 1934 reading made plenty of sense, and Cayce continued to criticize Hitler thereafter. His reading just 2.5 months earlier seems to have been way off-base, but perhaps Hitler really did change dramatically during that brief period. In any event, Cayce began to criticize Hitler and Nazism well before WW II, even calling Nazi Germany a "leech" prior to the war.

 

[PBTree]

First, I think you will find that there was nothing "supposed" about Cayce's trances. Second, there isn't always an advantage to a trance, but in many cases Cayce seemed aware of a condition that conventional doctors were not aware of. [/url]

Hmm, now we have Rodney confirming (rpt confirming) that Cayce actually went into a trance. How could you know this, or are you just repeating what other's have stated?