Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

[uruk]

Not too likely. C4 explodes under heat AND pressure, not heat alone. Or through electrical ignition.

My dad used to cook with the tiniest bit of C4. Then he'd have the n00b lieutenants or whoever stomp it out...

hehehehe

Don't they use electricty to weld steel? As in arc welders. Or do they use a different method for building construction? www.monoarc.com/mild-steel-electrodes.html

There'a similar joke we would play on new technicians. We would charge up a 10,000 microfarad cap and toss it to the unsuspecting tech. ZZZZAP!!!!.

 

[Christophera]

Impossible. The facade was directly attached to the steel. It could not bow inward unless the steel columns it was attached were bowing.

Tom Scott Gordon has documented the bi-metal corrosion at the fasteners of the aluminum facade. In inages you can see facade pieces coming loose at one end with a warp to them. If the bottom fastener comes off and the bottom warps out, it looks bowed inward.

 

[Christophera]

Especially after they start hitting the fresh welds with a slag hammer.

The speed of an electric arc is enough to initiate a high explosive. The PA cited their concerns for the "flammability" of the "special plastic coating" on the rebar, in the documentary as their reason for allowing only welders with a security clearance to weld on the rebar of the core and its foundation.

In reality the welders with a security clearance were the only ones they could tell that the coating was flammable, but also explosive which would MAKE SURE the welders removed all the coating and shielded the areas near their welds from sparks.

 

[Bell]

Christophera, care to comment on this post?

Thanks.

 

[Z]

Don't they use electricty to weld steel? As in arc welders. Or do they use a different method for building construction? www.monoarc.com/mild-steel-electrodes.html

There'a similar joke we would play on new technicians. We would charge up a 10,000 microfarad cap and toss it to the unsuspecting tech. ZZZZAP!!!!.

Well there you go. Shows what I know about welding.

Yeah - arc-welding C4 = BAD IDEA.

 

[Oliver]

Oh my god. 3000 people died and were murdered by the gov!

50.000 iraqis died because a lie....

Oh my god. 3000 people died and were murdered by the gov!

100.000 iraqis died because a lie....

Oh my god. 3000 people died and were murdered by the gov!

150.000 iraqis died because a lie....

Oh my god. 3000 people died and were murdered by the gov!

200.000 iraqis died because a lie....

Oh my god. 3000 people died and were murdered by the gov!

250.000 iraqis died because a lie....

Oh my god. 3000 people died and were murdered by the gov!

300.000 iraqis died because a lie....

Oh my god. 3000 people died and were murdered by the gov!

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Oh my god. 3000 people died and were murdered by the gov!

STOP WHINING!

 

[Christophera]

Christophera, do you not look at the pictures we post here? Have you not seen the picture - posted twice - of WTC 1 with the HUGE FRIKKING fires at the southside? What do you think that does to the steel beams? That's right, it weakens them. Then they loose the strenght to support the top of the tower and the top falls. Southward.

Oh, the buckling seen were the steel outer columns. Or do you believe the towers only had aluminium siding? No steel behind it?

HUGE FRIKKING fires do not equate to weakened columns. The flames can only effectively get to one face. Evenl then only a small piece of that face is going to get vey hot, and that is not going to e hot enough. The temperature of carbon fires just is not hot enough to do this to columns of that size even under optimum conditions of exposure with forced air.

Have you ever used an oxy/acetlence rosebud and tried to heat a significant amount of a structural member to make a bend? Have you ever tried to make a forge for bending an forming stee? Have you ever taken a campfire and tried to make steel tools, knives?

I have and it it very difficult to get any amount of steel hot enough to lose any significant amount of steel to a temperature where you can bend it.

If the top of the towers was going to fall anywhere it would be where 1/2 the perimeter columns were cut by an airplane travelling about the speed of a 45 caliber pistol round. But it didn't, it fell the other way where all of the columns were intact and probably hot enough to cook burgers on, for part of their surfaces.

Now, there are pictures of white hot areas near the corners of a tower. That, I believe is the C4 in the floors which has ignited and can burn in excess of 3000 degrees C, melting steel. The steel seen melting is not the columns however which are not in contact. The floor pan is melting or even burning.

 

[Christophera]

And this right here is the proof that you've never worked in construction and never did demolitions. Are you really saying that the lower floors should be able to withstand the top FALLING on them? Oh, dear.

Why do you insist on presenting a floor supported all the way around and in the middle as being capable of free falling 10 feet to the floor below. There is resistence in a collapse, ...... period.

I don't have pictures of my brain working doing layout of concrete structures but I do have an image of my feet at work doing grading last year going down a 2:1 in an excavator.

 

[Z]

Ah... so you're a ditch digger.

That explains a lot.

 

[Bell]

HUGE FRIKKING fires do not equate to weakened columns. The flames can only effectively get to one face. Evenl then only a small piece of that face is going to get vey hot, and that is not going to e hot enough. The temperature of carbon fires just is not hot enough to do this to columns of that size even under optimum conditions of exposure with forced air.

Have you ever used an oxy/acetlence rosebud and tried to heat a significant amount of a structural member to make a bend? Have you ever tried to make a forge for bending an forming stee? Have you ever taken a campfire and tried to make steel tools, knives?

I have and it it very difficult to get any amount of steel hot enough to lose any significant amount of steel to a temperature where you can bend it.

If the top of the towers was going to fall anywhere it would be where 1/2 the perimeter columns were cut by an airplane travelling about the speed of a 45 caliber pistol round. But it didn't, it fell the other way where all of the columns were intact and probably hot enough to cook burgers on, for part of their surfaces.

Now, there are pictures of white hot areas near the corners of a tower. That, I believe is the C4 in the floors which has ignited and can burn in excess of 3000 degrees C, melting steel. The steel seen melting is not the columns however which are not in contact. The floor pan is melting or even burning.

 

[Bell]

Why do you insist on presenting a floor supported all the way around and in the middle as being capable of free falling 10 feet to the floor below. There is resistence in a collapse, ...... period.

I don't have pictures of my brain working doing layout of concrete structures but I do have an image of my feet at work doing grading last year going down a 2:1 in an excavator.

I'm kind of worried you operate heavy machinery.

 

[uruk]

HUGE FRIKKING fires do not equate to weakened columns. The flames can only effectively get to one face. Evenl then only a small piece of that face is going to get vey hot, and that is not going to e hot enough. The temperature of carbon fires just is not hot enough to do this to columns of that size even under optimum conditions of exposure with forced air.

Have you ever used an oxy/acetlence rosebud and tried to heat a significant amount of a structural member to make a bend? Have you ever tried to make a forge for bending an forming stee? Have you ever taken a campfire and tried to make steel tools, knives?

I have and it it very difficult to get any amount of steel hot enough to lose any significant amount of steel to a temperature where you can bend it.

If the top of the towers was going to fall anywhere it would be where 1/2 the perimeter columns were cut by an airplane travelling about the speed of a 45 caliber pistol round. But it didn't, it fell the other way where all of the columns were intact and probably hot enough to cook burgers on, for part of their surfaces.

Now, there are pictures of white hot areas near the corners of a tower. That, I believe is the C4 in the floors which has ignited and can burn in excess of 3000 degrees C, melting steel. The steel seen melting is not the columns however which are not in contact. The floor pan is melting or even burning.

I believe in blacksmithing the forge uses a heat source with air forced into the flames to increase the heat of the fire. In the WTC you had both. You had fires fueled by jet fuel and office furniture,..etc. and hugh source of wind blowing into the building from gapping hole. Plus you don't need to get the steel to the melting point before it deforms. The steel just had to get to the tempurature at which it looses half its strength. 300 to 600 dgrees centigrade. The wieght and stress did the rest.

 

[rwguinn]

I believe in blacksmithing the forge uses a heat source with air forced into the flames to increase the heat of the fire. In the WTC you had both. You had fires fueled by jet fuel and office furniture,..etc. and hugh source of wind blowing into the building from gapping hole. Plus you don't need to get the steel to the melting point before it deforms. The steel just had to get to the tempurature at which it looses half its strength. 300 to 600 dgrees centigrade. The wieght and stress did the rest.

As an "for funsies" blacksmith, I agree-
Note on "Mythbusters" they heated a gunbarrel (this is stout steel, folks--180ksi stuff) on a charcoal fire, with a hairdyrer blower, to cherry, put it in a vice, smacked it with a sword, and bent it 90 degrees-right where I expected it, at the max moment point--at the vice (also where it was the thickest, with the most area).
very simple to do, no problem.

 

[Christophera]

Ah... so you're a ditch digger.

That explains a lot.

I've had to dig a few, even by hand (long ago) instead of a hydraulic excavator. I do what is available and pays well. That was last year and I've spent a week on machines since then.

Mostl, yI'm helping contractors get references present on their projects for the dimensions of the structures they build andthings like this are present while my brain works.

Of course, as far as we know, you do nothing at all except try to put people down.

 

[Christophera]

Unqualified Information

[qimg]http://killtown.911review.org/images/wtc-gallery/nist1d/6-46_wtc1-96floor-temps.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://killtown.911review.org/images/wtc-gallery/nist1d/6-47_wtc2-81floor-temps.jpg[/qimg]

Sorry Bell, it is way too easy to fake diagrams and information such as this. There may have been a few areas that reached 675c but I cannot imagine that more than a few feet of any column ever got to that temperature.

Jet fuel and office furnishings just do not burn that hot.

And, how is anyone going to know what the temperature is 60 feet from the perimeter walls?

 

[rwguinn]

As an "for funsies" blacksmith, I agree-
Note on "Mythbusters" they heated a gunbarrel (this is stout steel, folks--180ksi stuff) on a charcoal fire, with a hairdyrer blower, to cherry, put it in a vice, smacked it with a sword, and bent it 90 degrees-right where I expected it, at the max moment point--at the vice (also where it was the thickest, with the most area).
very simple to do, no problem.

too much time around troofers..
That should be vise, not vice...

 

[twinstead]

Sorry Bell, it is way too easy to fake diagrams and information such as this. There may have been a few areas that reached 675c but I cannot imagine that more than a few feet of any column ever got to that temperature.

Jet fuel and office furnishings just do not burn that hot.

And, how is anyone going to know what the temperature is 60 feet from the perimeter walls?

Is that all you have? You "can't imagine", and "it's way too easy to fake diagrams and information"?

Well [FONT=&quot]touché! LOL[/FONT]

 

[Christophera]

I believe in blacksmithing the forge uses a heat source with air forced into the flames to increase the heat of the fire. In the WTC you had both. You had fires fueled by jet fuel and office furniture,..etc. and hugh source of wind blowing into the building from gapping hole. Plus you don't need to get the steel to the melting point before it deforms. The steel just had to get to the tempurature at which it looses half its strength. 300 to 600 dgrees centigrade. The wieght and stress did the rest.

The air is forced into the BOTTOM of the FUEL, not the flames.

The wind was hardly blowing at all. The building was built 6 times stronger than it needed to be. Loose 1/2 the strength in a few columns over a few feet, no problem.

 

[rwguinn]

Is that all you have? You "can't imagine", and "it's way too easy to fake diagrams and information"?

Well [FONT=&quot]touché! LOL[/FONT]

but he has such a vivid imagination!

 

[Christophera]

As an "for funsies" blacksmith, I agree-
Note on "Mythbusters" they heated a gunbarrel (this is stout steel, folks--180ksi stuff) on a charcoal fire, with a hairdyrer blower, to cherry, put it in a vice, smacked it with a sword, and bent it 90 degrees-right where I expected it, at the max moment point--at the vice (also where it was the thickest, with the most area).
very simple to do, no problem.

I gues you do not realize how optimized their conditions were compared to the WTC. No comparison.

KEYWORDS:

Charcoal

Over

Blower

And they bent it where it was cherry, not in the 300 to 600 c areas.

You need myth busters to be able to post this?