Milk - healthy or not?

logical muse said:
You've never had a decent fetta then, have you? It's yummy!

Then again, over on that other thread somewhere, I talk about how much I like vegemite...
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Your tastebuds are certainly suspect.

Especially if you would have a vegemite sandwich with a nice cabernet on the side.:D
 
drkitten said:
Isn't that one of those phrases like "a circular triangle" or "jumbo shrimp"?
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Hey, the grocery store is having a sale on extra-colossal shrimp this week.

I can see them now, with their many legs astride the Chesapeake bay.
 
Cuddles said:
We used to have goats' milk, mainly because we used to have goats. The milk isn't too different from semi-skimmed cows milk, and within a week of swtiching between them (in either direction) you'll be used to it. On other other hand, goats cheese is just plain nasty.
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Take that back you nekulturny heathen. Goat cheeses are the foods of the gods. Nothing better with fruit than a tangy mild chevre. A well-aged wine-washed hard goat cheese is a wonderful thing with grilled veggies and a pale ale. And there is nothing like breaking through the thick white rind on a well-aged montrachet to that nutty sharpness underneath, with a rustic french bread, some herbed oil, and a good red wine.
 
luchog said:
Take that back you nekulturny heathen. Goat cheeses are the foods of the gods. Nothing better with fruit than a tangy mild chevre. A well-aged wine-washed hard goat cheese is a wonderful thing with grilled veggies and a pale ale. And there is nothing like breaking through the thick white rind on a well-aged montrachet to that nutty sharpness underneath, with a rustic french bread, some herbed oil, and a good red wine.
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Would you STOP making me hungry!
 
Hydrogen Cyanide said:
Chocolate fondue is not necesarily sweet. Chocolate fondue is any good chocolate (bitter is really good) mixed with some warmed cream.
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Not all port is heavily sweetened, that's typical mainly of the cheaper "supermarket" stuff. A good port, though it is a sweeter type of wine, is better balanced between the tannins and the sugar; and the emphasis is on the fruit, and in some cases chocolate or tobacco notes.

And the sweetness of the cream moderates the bitterness of high-liquor (70%+) chocolate too much to allow it to pair well with a dry wine. IMO of course. :) I'm not particularly fond of highly tannic wines, in any case.

What wine you serve might also be determined by what you are dipping into the fondue. I don't think I'd like a port with pears in bitter chocolate... I might like a merlot, though.
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Merlot is much too soft for me. If I'm not drinking port, I'd much rather have a good Australian shiraz (most other shirazes/syrahs tend to be too tannic and woody), or a Georgian saperavi (Kindzmarauli is my current favorite).
Thinktoomuch said:
Cabernet and merlot - too light.
Port - too heavy.
A nice shiraz - just right.
And don't dare drink milk. We need it to make fine cheeses to go with the cabernet and the merlot!
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If you find port too heavy, you've been drinking the wrong ones. Particularly if you've been drinking the cheap stuff. There's also a huge difference between Ruby and Tawny ports as well, the former tending to be sweeter and more fruity, the latter drier and more oaky/tannic. Different blends, ages, years, and so on will make a huge difference as well.
 
luchog said:
.....
Merlot is much too soft for me. If I'm not drinking port, I'd much rather have a good Australian shiraz (most other shirazes/syrahs tend to be too tannic and woody),
......

If you find port too heavy, you've been drinking the wrong ones. Particularly if you've been drinking the cheap stuff. There's also a huge difference between Ruby and Tawny ports as well, the former tending to be sweeter and more fruity, the latter drier and more oaky/tannic. Different blends, ages, years, and so on will make a huge difference as well.
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Geez, I thougth I was only making a humorous quip, next time I'll make sure to add a smilie for those who need a picture. :) We are mostly agreed but obviously the infinite variety of wines and individual tastes makes this discussion futile. Light and heavy are just very generic words good for a quip, not for a treatise on oenology. Have you tried Amarone, a blend of cabernet and merlot? I do not drink cheap port, maybe I am just not fond of ports. I have tolerated some tawny around $30 a bottle, but am not tempted to spend more in the odd chance that I might find some I really like.

Drkitten, as you seem to think that "nice shiraz" is an oximoron, I formally invite you to a study tour of the Barossa Valley! :)
Chhers!
 
An earlier post pointed out that lactose intolerance is different from having an allergy - it bears repeating. I have had a severe lactose intolerance from the time I was 16. At that time, gastroenterology hadn't progressed enough to diagnose my problems as anything other than an allergy. It was only a few years later when medicine finally started recognizing lactose intolerance for what it was.

My understanding has been that before the domestication of cattle, it wasn't "natural" to consume milk beyond the breast feeding stage of infants. And thus the human body "naturally" didn't expect to have to deal with lactose anymore in the form of milk. So the production of lactase in the small intestine (to digest the stuff) naturally dropped or atrophied normally, there being no further need to digest lactose. I don't seem to fit demographics mentioned in the OP article as I am caucasion. Curiously, I know several other folks that also have lactose intolerance and they are all caucasion too.

In any case, I used to shudder from all those TV commercials that claimed that "Milk is a natural!" For babies, yes. For adults, No! But if you can drink milk with no problems then more power to you. But if you can't, then you have to consider that it's just biologically natural. I'm not saying that being able to handle milk isn't natural, just that it should be no biological surprise that a lot of people can't tolerate the stuff.
 
fls said:
That's a good question. Why don't we see complex animals that photosynthesize?

Linda
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Because you can't get enough energy that way for complex animals to live. Things that need to move around need a lot more ATP than things that just sit there or float there and absorb. (I edited this to add that, as another interesting fact, we humans do use sunlight to make vitamin D, which is important enough that where I study we actually have a population of children that have a very high incidence of rickets--they are usually dark-skinned children from families that eat a vegetarian diet for religious reasons, and it happens in the winter months when they are not outside/bundled up so much that sunlight doesn't reach their skin.)

The silliest thing about this milk/anti-milk argument, it seems to me, is the polarization on both sides. Milk isn't entirely evil or ambrosia. If you're not allergic or lactose-intolerant and you like it, it's fine.

People who don't like good port or feta cheese, on the other hand, are clearly insane. ;)
 
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Thinktoomuch said:
Geez, I thougth I was only making a humorous quip, next time I'll make sure to add a smilie for those who need a picture. :)
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Some of us happen to take our ports very seriously, and don't find them a suitable subject for frivolous levity. :(
We are mostly agreed but obviously the infinite variety of wines and individual tastes makes this discussion futile. Light and heavy are just very generic words good for a quip, not for a treatise on oenology. Have you tried Amarone, a blend of cabernet and merlot? I do not drink cheap port, maybe I am just not fond of ports. I have tolerated some tawny around $30 a bottle, but am not tempted to spend more in the odd chance that I might find some I really like.
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Region, blend, etc. are important too. I've found a few truly amazing ports in the $15-20 range, and some absolute crap in the $20-30 range.

I've tried the cab/merlot blends, but they all seem to incorporate the worst of both worlds. Not a particularly big fan of either wine, really. As far as dry reds go, I tend to prefer Pinot Noir; with the occasional Malbec or Syrah (some nice versions of the latter 2 coming out of Chile). Mostly I prefer the sweeter reds, like the Georgian saperavi.
Drkitten, as you seem to think that "nice shiraz" is an oximoron, I formally invite you to a study tour of the Barossa Valley! :)
Chhers!
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The Aussie shirazes are probably the best in the world. And there are some very interesting (and inexpensive) ports based on the shiraz grape coming out of Australia (Barossa and McLaren valleys).
 
gdtbiker said:
...In any case, I used to shudder from all those TV commercials that claimed that "Milk is a natural!" For babies, yes. For adults, No! But if you can drink milk with no problems then more power to you. But if you can't, then you have to consider that it's just biologically natural. I'm not saying that being able to handle milk isn't natural, just that it should be no biological surprise that a lot of people can't tolerate the stuff.
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My sister was born lactose intolerant (she was a premie). Funny... other people drinking milk does not bother her, and neither do the commercials. She seems to understand what affects her does not necesarily bother other people. The funny thing is that she still eats cheese while I am avoiding the stuff (because of my high cholesterol).

There are also lots of people who cannot tolerate all sorts of other foods. Along with real allergies for peanuts, tree nuts, soy, eggs, shellfish and others... there are whole swaths of people who cannot tolerate alcohol (very common with Asians)... PLUS there are those who are gluten intolerate --- yet we do not see a campaign to rid the world of wheat, nor any of the other things.

For some reason cow milk is what is being mostly demonized. Often with false information being used as noted in the OP. I once had one guy tell me my son had his seizures because he drank milk. When I explained that the child was 2 day old infant and had only had breast milk... he then try to tell me it was because I drank milk.

Plus the "it is not natural" arguement falls flat when compared to food often eaten by the "No milk" contingent. For instance tofu does come from the soy bean without lots of preparation (including fermentation), and for that matter soy milk is not exactly the natural state of the soy bean (plus it is one of the top dozen food allergies).

Another staple that is required in many areas is cassava... but that can't be eaten until the poison is removed!

Another example is blue corn... a staple of the American Southwest. The protein in it is not released until it is boiled in lime.

Now back to the real subject: wine

luchog, while I like good strong reds like shiraz and zinfandel (the latter is getting harder to find a good one), I also like merlots and cabernets. But for different reasons. Also the quality really depends on where it is grown, the year and the winemaker. We did once have a Beringer Cabernet from their Knight's Valley vineyard that was almost as potent as an Australian shiraz (Knight's Valley is full of obsidian, so it really concentrates to flavor of the grapes).

Still, I am not too fond of port. I have a friend who loves port and we have tried some of her favorites. I do have some Whidbey's Port on hand to make the sauce for a pork roast (it is covered in onions, thyme and sage... some stock in added with port in the last hour of roasting... that is strained and reduced down for the sauce... I like it served with a Pinot Noir).
 
luchog said:
Some of us happen to take our ports very seriously, and don't find them a suitable subject for frivolous levity. :(
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Let's get deadly serious, then:eye-poppi . My GGT is raised, HDL and DDL out of whack, and I get a gout attack just by looking at a bowl of salted anchovies [well, by scoffing it and washing it off with a couple of glasses of cabernet, actually... Wife's note]

As a consequence, of late I approach red wine like a porcupine mates: veeery carefully. My philosophy is that I will not be able to drink much in the remainder of my life, therefore if I drink a bottle of plonk means that I am smashing against the wall the good bottle I could have instead.

And there is method in my madness: I believe that if a red wine is really good, no producers in their right mind would just kill it with ethanol to make port. However, Doctor, if you can prescribe a Barossa port that will cure my madness I am happy to try it.

luchog said:
I've tried the cab/merlot blends, but they all seem to incorporate the worst of both worlds.
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Yes, this is probably true for most of them, that is why I suggested the exception of Amarone. A good one is rather rare and expensive, though.
 
Thinktoomuch said:
Let's get deadly serious, then:eye-poppi . My GGT is raised, HDL and DDL out of whack, and I get a gout attack just by looking at a bowl of salted anchovies [well, by scoffing it and washing it off with a couple of glasses of cabernet, actually... Wife's note]
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Heh. Well, moderate amounts of alcohol are supposed to be good for the cholesterol levels and balances; though probably not as good for the gout. (Can't say the same for the anchovies, unfortunately, no matter how much I love them.)
And there is method in my madness: I believe that if a red wine is really good, no producers in their right mind would just kill it with ethanol to make port. However, Doctor, if you can prescribe a Barossa port that will cure my madness I am happy to try it.
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But there's a method to the madness in port as well. The ethanol doesn't kill it (and it's not like it's industrial ethanol, it's made from the same wines, after all), but preserves an earlier stage of development, a rich fruitiness that no other red wines have.

I don't know any of the Barossa ports, unfortunately. Most of the ones I do know are Portugese (the Dows vintage ports are quite good, and I particularly like their '85 Qinto do Bomfim, though good luck finding it). The only Australian I am familiar with is the d'Arenberg, which is a McLaren valley winery. The 2000 is good.
Yes, this is probably true for most of them, that is why I suggested the exception of Amarone. A good one is rather rare and expensive, though.
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They usually are.
 
bluess said:
Your tastebuds are certainly suspect.

Especially if you would have a vegemite sandwich with a nice cabernet on the side.:D
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The wine snobs will uncork a bottle of derision over this, but merlot goes well with vegemite.
 
Wine snobbery is such that they will claim that it only goes with certain foods (normally french cheeses etc) whatever your own tastebuds tell you.

Wine connoisseurship is full of balony. I'm dubious as to all red wines having red berry flavours and whites having light coloured tropical fruit flavours. I usually stop listening when I hear the descriptions containing the words "cigar box" approaching.

One thing that annoys me is people who won't even sip a sweeter wine claiming it's far too sweet and quite horrible. And then they go on to down a glass of Coke.

Seems to me people are schooled into what is right or wrong rather than what simply tastes good.
 
luchog said:
Take that back you nekulturny heathen.
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I'm not sure what that means, but that's a great word that I'm definately going to have to remember. :)

HawkeyeMD said:
People who don't like good port or feta cheese, on the other hand, are clearly insane. ;)
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Fortunately I don't like either, so being a double negative that makes me entirely sane.
 
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