Who Disrespects NYPD & NYFD

Dazed said:
They really wanted the towers to come down to neccesitate the proper "casuality lists" that would generate an appropriate wave of moral outrage to support a venture that benefitted nobody but the military industrial complex.
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Wouldn't the plane crashes suffise? Why the enormous complexity of rigging two of the world's biggest skyscrapers for demolition?
 
Russell Pickering said:
I like this Wkipedia article on evidence.

"The most immediate form of evidence available to an individual is the observations of that person's own senses."
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Of course that's the most immediate, Russell. How could there be something more immediate to a person than his or her sensory perception?

However, that quote doesn't mean that human senses are the most accurate source of evidence.

How about senses that are augmented by training and experience? Why do you believe in the absurd WTC 7 CD theory, which you cobbled together by watching a few videos, rather than the experts in the FDNY and demolitions work, who were there and were confident that the building would collapse?
 
Dazed said:
Let me paraphrase what Russel is trying to say. :)

They really wanted the towers to come down to neccesitate the proper "casuality lists" that would generate an appropriate wave of moral outrage to support a venture that benefitted nobody but the military industrial complex.
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Don't forget Philip Zelikows appraisal of if the towers had fallen in '93.

In the November-December 1998 issue of Foreign Affairs, he co-authored an article entitled “Catastrophic Terrorism,” in which he speculated that if the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center had succeeded, “the resulting horror and chaos would have exceeded our ability to describe it. Such an act of catastrophic terrorism would be a watershed event in American history. It could involve loss of life and property unprecedented in peacetime and undermine America’s fundamental sense of security, as did the Soviet atomic bomb test in 1949. Like Pearl Harbor, the event would divide our past and future into a before and after. The United States might respond with draconian measures scaling back civil liberties, allowing wider surveillance of citizens, detention of suspects and use of deadly force.
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from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Zelikow
 
Pardalis said:
Wouldn't the plane crashes suffise? Why the enormous complexity of rigging two of the world's biggest skyscrapers for demolition?
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[Devil's Advocate]
Had just the crashes somehow not done the trick, they probably would have put out the fires and 95% of the people inside survive.

Just not enough moral outrage.
[/Devil's Advocate]
 
Dazed said:
Properly debunking an article takes time, give the man time.

Maybe start a new thread for him called "Gravy's debunking of steele" and I'm sure he'll be obliged to post it. I seem to recall this technique working well.
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Dazed, you haven't been folowing this thread so I'll fill you in. We've repeatedly told US that this is a discussion forum, not a place for him to come and dump links and demand "debunkings." We've repeatedly requested him to state specifically what, and why, he found to be important in Steele's writing. US has refused to do so, and has repeatedly lied and otherwise behaved like an ass. I've told him I won't be responding to him.
 
Gravy said:
Dazed, you haven't been folowing this thread so I'll fill you in. We've repeatedly told US that this is a discussion forum, not a place for him to come and dump links and demand "debunkings." We've repeatedly requested him to state specifically what, and why, he found to be important in Steele's writing. US has refused to do so, and has repeatedly lied and otherwise behaved like an ass. I've told him I won't be responding to him.
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LTW made a film about 911 and several people produced debunkings of it. Former CIA Steele appears but no one seems keen to publish debunkings of what he says. Just a thought.
 
Gravy said:
Of course that's the most immediate, Russell. How could there be something more immediate to a person than his or her sensory perception?

However, that quote doesn't mean that human senses are the most accurate source of evidence.

How about senses that are augmented by training and experience? Why do you believe in the absurd WTC 7 CD theory, which you cobbled together by watching a few videos, rather than the experts in the FDNY and demolitions work, who were there and were confident that the building would collapse?
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Gravy,

I watched the video and it looked like a controlled demolition.

It still does every time.

So does every angle of it that has been released now.

Since you brought up the mitigation of PTSD in witnesses, let's not forget the firefighter's family, career, and retirement as a factor.

I will not elaborate but I have seen things "overlooked" first hand. It is not a crime in my opinion to value one's survival. When you are doing your best to help people and something goes wrong, sometimes private silence is an option.

It would not surprise me one bit if there are other people who have chosen to continue helping people and letting something go that nothing can be done about and may destroy everything they have worked for for themselves and their family.

I have seen it, obviously not to this magnitude but human nature is human nature.

Russell
 
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