Who Disrespects NYPD & NYFD

Look, this is NUTS

Consider the following simple points:

1. The FDNY wouldn't let anyone near WTC 7 after, oh, say 2 PM or thereabouts, because they were afraid of collapse.

2. WTC 7 collapsed about 5:30 PM. The precise time is not important.

So, if WTC 7 collapsing is such a bloomin' surprise, then how did the FDNY know about it? Pick one:

(a) FDNY blew it up

(b) FDNY was told by _____ that it was going to be blown up

(c) Lucky guess

(d) It wasn't so hard to predict that WTC 7 was coming down after all, and all this talk about how it "must have been 'splosives" is armchair speculation of people who don't know what the heck they're talking about

Please explain your answer. Thanks.
 
jessicarabbit said:
I agree but what bothers me is that the debris wasn't ever inspected with explosives in mind. Every time you challenge a CT to come up with physical evidence of explosives you are asking the impossible because we don't have the steel to look at. Frustrating
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The steel also wasn't inspected with vampires, elves, fairies, or Eskimos in mind. Why do you think that is?
 
Pardalis said:
Fair enough Russell, can you do the same for your government?
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Between the military and civil service I have spent 17 years of my life giving at the office. I just did a photography job for Special Operations Command and made a CD for them to support the widow's fund.

Please don't question me on this level.

Now it is time for them to be accountable.

Maybe it is the 3.61 soldiers being killed every day this month that has me upset.

http://icasualties.org/oif/

No ties between Saddam and Al-Qeada! Remember? No WMD remember? Just the plan to have bases in the Middle East.
 
jessicarabbit said:
Your a very intelligent man. I understand resistance is futile. Whats your site BTW?
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Yes he is trying to say

Some CT guys make up stuff because they do not like policies of the government.

Facts are not important to CT guys, just make up what you want and blame it on the government. Ask not what CT you can make up about your government, join the CT movement and we will make it up for you to repeat forever more.

Seems like CT on 9/11 is a religion. Wonder when they will use logic and reason.

RP is a CT web site operator, his web site has errors and misinformation a literal treasure trove of information to help mislead fellow Americans.

examples of RP errors are too numerous to list without being banned for spaming,

but one is this --------- "This statement conflicts with the statement that the transponder was turned off. Primary radar alone does not detect altitude." OOPS how do you know? Guess what?

for over 60 years By comparing the strengths returned from the various radars the altitude could be determined to some degree of accuracy, (could this be how the NTSB tricked old Russell and figured out the altitude of an aircraft hijacked by terrorist on 9/11

How can the truth be clouded, ask RP, he seems to be an expert, or ask the NTSB how they used data from 9/11 to find the altitude of flight 77 from primary radar only

When it comes to 9/11, CT minded people could care less if they do superficial research!
Proof is all over RP site, and is typical on all the CT web sites I have found concerning 9/11 events.

So listen to RP and believe him on what he says cause his research on how things are is the best the CT world has.
 
Pardalis said:
Russell, all I know from Craig is that anger is not the best way to remain objective. He is repeating exactly what the Truth movement is saying. Word by word.
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I agree.

I haven't talked with or interviewed a witness who wasn't hurt and angry.

But many also tell the official story just as firmly.
 
jessicarabbit said:
I agree but what bothers me is that the debris wasn't ever inspected with explosives in mind. Every time you challenge a CT to come up with physical evidence of explosives you are asking the impossible because we don't have the steel to look at. Frustrating
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That's false. The engineers were specifically looking for steel that had been damaged by blast and impact from the aircraft, and for steel from the damage zone that had failed in any way. They found a great deal of such steel, but they did not find any evidence of steel that was severed by explosives.

Nor did any of the hundreds of ironworkers who worked intimately with the steel for nine months.

Nor did any of the hundreds of heavy equipment operators, truckers, or scrap yard employees.

Nor did any of the hundreds of firefighters who were on the pile during that time.

Nor did any of the engineers who were on the scene every day, from day 1.

Nor is any such damage visible in the photographs I've seen. Nor is there any such evidence on video.

Nor did any investigator, anywhere, find evidence of explosive devices. At Fresh Kills 1.6 billion pounds of debris was sorted on conveyor belts by investigators, and thousands of items such as small as teeth, buttons, coins, etc., were found. Not a single trace of an explosive device was found.

There is zero evidence of the use of explosives at the World Trade Center site. Zero.
 
mortimer said:
The steel also wasn't inspected with vampires, elves, fairies, or Eskimos in mind. Why do you think that is?
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Maybe because those things don't bring buildings down and aren't used by terrorists, but explosives are. They should have kept the steel, evidence from crime scenes should never be destroyed.
 
Pardalis said:
Russell, in your first post, you said nothing of controlled demolitions. Why?
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I said, "I believe at the very least it was facilitated by elements within our current administration."

I did not highlight every detail of that belief.

I am also currently evaluating my beliefs about CD here as part of my mission.
 
Gravy said:
That's false. The engineers were specifically looking for steel that had been damaged by blast and impact from the aircraft, and for steel from the damage zone that had failed in any way. They found a great deal of such steel, but they did not find any evidence of steel that was severed by explosives.

Nor did any of the hundreds of ironworkers who worked intimately with the steel for nine months.

Nor did any of the hundreds of heavy equipment operators, truckers, or scrap yard employees.

Nor did any of the hundreds of firefighters who were on the pile during that time.

Nor did any of the engineers who were on the scene every day, from day 1.

Nor is any such damage visible in the photographs I've seen. Nor is there any such evidence on video.

Nor did any investigator, anywhere, find evidence of explosive devices. At Fresh Kills 1.6 billion pounds of debris was sorted on conveyor belts by investigators, and thousands of items such as small as teeth, buttons, coins, etc., were found. Not a single trace of an explosive device was found.

There is zero evidence of the use of explosives at the World Trade Center site. Zero.
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I do beg to differ on one point made there. The Iron workers at ground zero spoke out in a video called Metal of Honour.
 
You see Russell, tha fact that you believe top people at the White House helped in some way 9/11, that's fine, but the controlled demolitions theories would necesserally have to require many, many people to be involved. That is the problem.

You may believe in your interpretation of the PNAC, but this CD nonsense is accusing alot of people that may very well be innocent.
 
mortimer said:
The steel also wasn't inspected with vampires, elves, fairies, or Eskimos in mind. Why do you think that is?
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So, even though there was an event at the WTC in 1993 where terrorists were known to have used explosives, you feel it should not be considered?

Have you heard of a "secondary device"? Some of the firefighters did because they mentioned it in the oral histories.

Timothy Burke -- [SIZE=-1]Firefigter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 202][/SIZE] Then the building popped, lower than the fire, which I learned was I guess, the aviation fuel fell into the pit, and whatever floor it fell on heated up really bad and that's why it popped at that floor. That's the rumor I heard. But it seemed like I was going oh, my god, there is a secondary device because the way the building popped. I thought it was an explosion.

That is because it is part of firefighter terrorist training.

"Secondary explosive devices are bombs placed at the scene of an ongoing emergency response that are intended to cause casualties among responders. Secondary explosive devices are designed to explode after a primary explosion or other major emergency response event has attracted large numbers of responders to the scene to inflict additional injury, damage, and fear.?

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/emergencypreparedness/guides/secondary.html

So if the steel was destroyed and not tested for explosives, then how do we know that a proven tactic of terrorists was not employed?

Not a very complete investigation in my opinion.
 
Pardalis said:
Why are you always bringing up Iraq?

Investigate the facts of 9/11 all you want, but don't make this a political issue.
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Because 9/11 was one of the justifications to invade Iraq. They are linked. Politics are not the issue. Religious wars happen too. Wars start over resources etc. etc..
 
jessicarabbit said:
I understand what you are saying, that they didn't need all the steel to understand a collapse but how can any CT find evidence of explosives if they don't have the steel to look at?
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This is an interesting comment.

Are we now to accept that any major event which occurs, whether in the US or other countries, should be open to investigation by amatuers, simply because a few people have a pathological mistrust of government?

Do you not trust the police to investigate a crime?

The police, FBI, FEMA, NIST et al, are your neighbours, friends, relatives...are they to considered suspects in this 'conspiracy' because it was they who carried out the investigation and not the amatuer slueths of the internet?

It's a strange world we are living in, to be sure.

I first found out about CT's regarding 9/11 when I was posting on another forum which had nothing to do with conspiracy theories. To be honest, although I had a vague idea that some kind of conspiracy theory was floating around (aren't they always?) I did not know the specifics until people started posting these incredible claims about how the WTC towers couldn't have come down the way the official version described.

But I know construction and I know that the claims made by these people (the CT advocates) were simply not true with regard to the collapse.

Yes I put my trust in structural engineers and other professionals who are competent to investigate such an event, and unless they come forward and complain that evidence was witheld, destroyed or tampered with, no amount of wild fantasies about termites or holograms is going to make me believe that anyone else out their has more competence or integrity than those who have already published their findings based upon the available evidence.

This isn't scooby doo or CSI or the X files.

If you really believe that your government and it's institutions are murderous conspirators then I expect you to be doing more about it than posting on an internet forum or making bad videos.

Rant over :boxedin:
 
Russell,

Everybody knows Bush used 9/11 to justify invading Iraq. Nobody is disputing that. I too am against that stupid war. The difference here is that there is no substancial proof that the US governement was directly or indirectly complicit in the 9/11 attacks themselves.

Do you see the difference here?
 
Russell Pickering said:
So, even though there was an event at the WTC in 1993 where terrorists were known to have used explosives, you feel it should not be considered?

Have you heard of a "secondary device"? Some of the firefighters did because they mentioned it in the oral histories.

Timothy Burke -- [SIZE=-1]Firefigter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 202][/SIZE] Then the building popped, lower than the fire, which I learned was I guess, the aviation fuel fell into the pit, and whatever floor it fell on heated up really bad and that's why it popped at that floor. That's the rumor I heard. But it seemed like I was going oh, my god, there is a secondary device because the way the building popped. I thought it was an explosion.

That is because it is part of firefighter terrorist training.

"Secondary explosive devices are bombs placed at the scene of an ongoing emergency response that are intended to cause casualties among responders. Secondary explosive devices are designed to explode after a primary explosion or other major emergency response event has attracted large numbers of responders to the scene to inflict additional injury, damage, and fear.?

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/emergencypreparedness/guides/secondary.html

So if the steel was destroyed and not tested for explosives, then how do we know that a proven tactic of terrorists was not employed?

Not a very complete investigation in my opinion.
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I don't want to get into the specifics about the "didn't test/check for explosives claims" however there is still quite a bit of steel currently located here at Hanger 17 in the Kennedy International Airport.
http://www.amny.com/news/local/groundzero/
 
Russell Pickering said:
So, even though there was an event at the WTC in 1993 where terrorists were known to have used explosives, you feel it should not be considered?
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Good point. How is it helpful to start talking about vampires and elves when we are talking about explosives that had already been used in that very building?


Al Qaeda modus operandi to date -

truck bomb
truck bomb
boat bomb
truck bomb
truck bomb
cleverly co-ordinated simultaneous attack on US soil using skilful
flying techniques and lack of any intervention by the US state or
military
truck bomb
car bomb
truck bomb
truck bomb

etc.


Can you see the odd one out? Looking for explosives on that steel was a reasonable thing to do
 
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