DeoxIT/ProGold - Placebo or not?

[elgarak]

This came up in another forum: Is DeoxIt/formerly ProGold really working or just a placebo?

A lot of people swear that it helps to gain functionality on old battery-operated equipment. However, it could also be that it's just the cleaning action of removing/re-installing the batteries that is required, not this stuff.

I would be more comfortable knowing that this stuff works, or what is in it. Their "data sheets" do not contain much data, more marketing, and no information on ingredients.

Their MSDS does not tell more (trade secret). However, whatever I would do to improve contact conductivity, as a physicist with some chemical training, would involve substances which are more toxic and flammable than this stuff.

Does anybody here know more?

Does it work, or is it just electronic woo?

 

[luchog]

A lot of people swear that it helps to gain functionality on old battery-operated equipment. However, it could also be that it's just the cleaning action of removing/re-installing the batteries that is required, not this stuff.

Well, the "active ingredient" listed is "odorless mineral spirits", just a petroleum distillate, so it's really just a glorified solvent cleaner. Probably with some anti-corrosion compounds added. Same as any number of other similar, and cheaper, cleaners on the market. The anti-corrosion compounds might be better than others on the market, but I seriously doubt that they would be significantly so.

It would improve functionality simply by removing dirt, oil, and oxidized metal that have built up on any metal surfaces and add extra resistance to the circuit. But pretty much any good cleaner will do that. You can even do the same with a pink abrasive pencil eraser, but then you risk removing any anti-corrosion plating.

It's pretty much the same stuff that people have been using for decades for the same purpose; but with a whole lot of marketting hype added to enable them to increase the price a bit.

 

[Sagger]

It great for cleaning dirty potentiometers in vintage receivers and amplifiers. Of course you still need to use some elbow grease and turn those knobs to get those contact surfaces cleaned and lubricated. Caig makes many different types of cleaners and contact enhancers for a variety of different applications. Deoxit is different from your average contact cleaner in that it also contains a lubricant and protective coating to prevent further build up of oxidation. If you buy it from the right place, such as parts express, it isn't all that expensive.

There is of course a great deal of overpriced woo in audio, such as burn in time for speaker cables. Some of the claims made about caig products may be exaggerated. However, for the general cleaning needed to get a scratchy pot sounding smooth again, Deoxit does a good job in my experience.

 

[elgarak]

So not woo.

I guess my problem is just the missing ingredient declaration. This is something I'm still not used to living and working in the USA. A lot of chemical products simply are not (required to) carrying ingredients. Especially industrial products, which only carry a manufacturer and part# on the label, without ingredients or usage warnings (which are relocated to the MSDS, which you have to get separately. Which doesn't really make sense when you spill the stuff and wonder what you can/have to do to clean it up). Back in Germany, manufacturers were required to list active ingredients, so that trained people could assess the usefulness and dangers of the product.

 

[bjb]

I keep DeOxit Gold away from my old vacuum tube equipment. I almost bought some but the label says it is only rated for use with voltages below 300V, and it is common for vacuum tube amps run at 400-500V. Some tube amp techs like the DeOxit Gold because it does a good job at cleaning corrosion from old tube sockets, which is a real problem with these amps. But I don't like the residue it leaves behind so I use something else.

 

[Serenity]

This came up in another forum: Is DeoxIt/formerly ProGold really working or just a placebo?

A lot of people swear that it helps to gain functionality on old battery-operated equipment. However, it could also be that it's just the cleaning action of removing/re-installing the batteries that is required, not this stuff.

I would be more comfortable knowing that this stuff works, or what is in it. Their "data sheets" do not contain much data, more marketing, and no information on ingredients.

Their MSDS does not tell more (trade secret). However, whatever I would do to improve contact conductivity, as a physicist with some chemical training, would involve substances which are more toxic and flammable than this stuff.

Does anybody here know more?

Does it work, or is it just electronic woo?

I share Luchog’s opinion except for using the eraser… ok, if your in the desert with no other resources, maybe. I think he nailed it with this:

"It would improve functionality simply by removing dirt, oil, and oxidized metal that have built up on any metal surfaces and add extra resistance to the circuit. But pretty much any good cleaner will do that.
The anti-corrosion compounds might be better than others on the market, but I seriously doubt that they would be significantly so"

Here’s the problem I have with Caig: None of their products have been tested independently or rated to any given industry standard. Where I work we do a lot of business with commercial aviation folks and one of my tasks was to find a suitable cleaner and I had been referred to Caig. Under the circumstances I couldn’t. If a GSE engineer had asked me to prove its efficacy, I’d be between that all too popular rock and hard place. Pointing to the testimonial page would be funny for a short while.

I’ve used the Deoxit and ProGold stuff a few times but not with a critical enough eye. I’d be tempted to do a comparative study under controlled conditions some day, considering its recent popularity into the consumer market, vis-à-vis Radio Shack. People tend to be subjective in their analysis of these products. You apply it and the problem goes away; which gets interpreted as “this stuff is awesome!” Bottom line: In the short term practically any cleaner you use will work just fine, but only well designed formulas will continue to perform long-term at their assigned task.

Would I buy Caig again? Probably not. Too many inexpensive products that do a sufficient job out there. I do like their wide variety of dispensing options. The best deoxidizer they sell (still do I think) is Caikleen TNX, but that’s one of those strong chemicals you’re probably aware of that can’t be used just anywhere and must be completely removed post application. It's truly an effective deoxidizing agent. Then again you could just buy TarnX… same stuff. Caig claims their Deoxit product (and ProGold to a more limited extent) removes some oxidation. I'm just not sure if its significant enough to actually make a noticeable difference. Equally important is maintaining that newly deoxidized surface. I'd like to see their claims tested.

What is your application?

 

[elgarak]

Flashlights!

No joke, there's a quite active community out there.

Lots of anecdotal reports as you describe. People use the stuff on battery contacts of (expensive) high-powered flashlights. Get used more frequently on the cheaper and less nicely manufactured Chinese clones. People apply it and cry "Whoa".

A few more skeptical minded people like me use quite happily pink erasers, Isoprop and Q-tips.

 

[Serenity]

Flashlights!

No joke, there's a quite active community out there.

Lots of anecdotal reports as you describe. People use the stuff on battery contacts of (expensive) high-powered flashlights. Get used more frequently on the cheaper and less nicely manufactured Chinese clones. People apply it and cry "Whoa".

A few more skeptical minded people like me use quite happily pink erasers, Isoprop and Q-tips.

I believe you. I've occasionally lurked in the Candlepower forums myself, like the good Firefly that I am. Ken Good, of Strategos International was selling pre-production 40W HID Helios, $295 off the MSRP last month there. Incidentally, an Ebay vendor auctioned off a pair of working Maxibeam’s that sold somewhere between 7 or $800 dollars not too long ago. Great deal!

Intense, coherent beams of light that can be seen for miles are beautiful to look at really. Must be why those coordinated, dancing lightbeams in the sky are sometimes used at premiers or events to lure people in. Just think, when we expire, "walking toward the light" may be the last impulse we experience... biologicaly; not spiritually... if it turns out the effects of dying neurons are responsible for this phenomenon.

You should see the array of xenon lights used on the 11-mile back-up runway for the space shuttle in NM. I’ve seen them up-close during a visit. Hardly portable. The folks at Honeywell maintain it over at WSSH (Space Harbor.) Sometimes their site is pleasantly confused with wssh.org. <warning-high cuteness factor> Either is a good hit.

Getting back to your technique, it’s good that you’re using alcohol to remove any potential layer of residue from the eraser binder. From a professional standpoint I’d never use an eraser to clean contacts especially where plating is involved. For your application it seems harmless and actually quite resourceful in a MacGyver-ish way. Anything slightly abrasive would be fine, really. I’d also add a protective coating of some type. A dab of off-the-shelf electrical joint compound, i.e., Noalox or Penetrox to prevent reoxidation wouldn't hurt.

Feel free to inquire further if you need any contact cleaner/corrosion inhibitor recommendations. Sounds like you’re fine with what you've doing in this case.