Randi - You've Been Had! TS1234 Email to Randi

Personally I think they are convinced. They know it was a demolition but cannot bring themselves to oppose the parental figures of government.

Even those who live in different countries ? You've never answered this, chris.

Without them they would have nothing, no guidence to the future.

I don't rely on my government to guide me to the future. I rely on them to collect taxes and give me reasonably-competent health care.

Controlled by fear there is no ability to communicate with their fellow country person to establish priorities of needs relating to; rights, freedoms and justice, so must support illogical nonsense to fend off the fearful darkness of the unkown.

You're not an expert on psychology just because you're a patient.
 
You utterly misstate what I was saying. Of course a cinder block dropped will injure your toe, it cannot injure anything on the way down.

Unless there's something else in the way - like another foot. Or a floor structure.


To the extent that the cinder block damages anything else on the way down, that energy must indeed be subtracted from available GPE, thus slowing the acceleration and adding to the fall time. Objects cannot remain in gravitational free-fall and inflict damage to other objects. Falling objects slow down in exact proportion to the amount of damage they inflict.

And that's exactly what happened. People have shown many time that the collapse wasn't a freefall. And again, as long as the energy in the falling mass is more than that needed to collapse the next floor, the collapse will continue.


You imagine collapsing floors stacking up and accumulating mass and momentum. This bears no resemblence to any observations that are made.

No, that's something you imagined. None of us have ever suggested the floors "stacked up" as they fell. We have said that the rubble of the floors accumulated in a large, largely undifferentiated mass. While some was ejected over the sides, a large enough fraction remained to destroy the lower parts of the tower. Totally different thing.

You imagine steel floor pans full of concrete falling all the way to the ground and then pulverizing. This is evocative, but there is no evidence for this. None. Every picture and every video show the floors turning into powder, systematically.

Again, no. That's what you claim would have happened without explosives, not us.

Can we nominate this for a strawman award?
 
If a bullet cuts a clean hole through a wall, the bullet stays relatively intact. If the soft bullet splatters on the wall, the wall stays relatively intact. There is a reciprocal nature to collision damage.

We're talking about bullets, now ?

Yes, elastic collisions can occur. This complicates the problem, and is further proof that the "collpase" theory of 9/11 is false. Any elastic collision will not pulverize material either.

Pulverise ?

Oh, that's right. You guys think all 110 floors should have piled up like a gigantic pancake.

What? If all of the lateral motion is the result of elastic collisions, what is providing the resistance?

Er... the building ?

How can this tower demonstrate such high resistance, and such low resistance at the same time?

You might want to check the videos of the collapse, again. The tower itself collapsed far slower than the falling debris.
 
Of course a cinder block dropped will injure your toe, it cannot injure anything on the way down. To the extent that the cinder block damages anything else on the way down, that energy must indeed be subtracted from available GPE, thus slowing the acceleration and adding to the fall time.

Depending on the relative strength of whatever it encounters, that "slowing down" might not be significant. Agreed ?

You imagine collapsing floors stacking up and accumulating mass and momentum. This bears no resemblence to any observations that are made.

I'm sure you're aware that 50,000,000 tons of dust weighs the same as 50,000,000 tons of building.

You imagine steel floor pans full of concrete falling all the way to the ground and then pulverizing. This is evocative, but there is no evidence for this. None. Every picture and every video show the floors turning into powder, systematically.

As you'd expect...

Roger, suppose you explain to me what happened with the top 12 floors of WTC1. So 98 fails and the top 12 floors fall down one to 97, right? Then what? Does 97 break and the whole thing falls down breaks apart and falls another level to 96? Is that what you think? What do we observe Roger?

Corrected that for you.
 
You utterly misstate what I was saying. Of course a cinder block dropped will injure your toe, it cannot injure anything on the way down. To the extent that the cinder block damages anything else on the way down, that energy must indeed be subtracted from available GPE, thus slowing the acceleration and adding to the fall time. Objects cannot remain in gravitational free-fall and inflict damage to other objects. Falling objects slow down in exact proportion to the amount of damage they inflict.

If a falling object hits something on the way down, it will slow down in exact proportion to amount of kinetic energy that's converted to heat, which might be all of the energy, most of it, or just some of it, depending on the circumstances. Look at this example: Two cars of the same weight moving at the same speed crash head-on and come to a stop where they collided. Both cars stop moving because all of the kinetic energy is converted to heat. On the other hand, if a line of cars is stopped and then another car crashes into the rear car, some of the kinetic energy is converted to heat, some of it is transferred as momentum to the car that was hit, sending it crashing into the car in front of it, and some of it remains in the car that caused the accident, so it continues moving forward with the car that was hit, so the momentum of BOTH cars is available to do damage to the third car. If the rear car was moving fast enough, that process can continue in a chain reaction through several more cars until all of the kinetic energy has been converted to heat. Figuring out precisely how the energy got divided up in that situation is extremely complicated, but the conservation law simply tells us that none of the energy disappeared.

Now, the biggest difference between that situation and the collapse of the towers is that gravity kept feeding that process as the supporting structure failed.

You imagine collapsing floors stacking up and accumulating mass and momentum. This bears no resemblance to any observations that are made.

On the contrary; that's exactly what I see happening in the videos, except that there's no rational reason to think that the floors should be either neatly stacked up or completely pulverized. The most rational expectation would be something in between -- pulverized stuff and big pieces all falling together.

You imagine steel floor pans full of concrete falling all the way to the ground and then pulverizing.

Nope, as I said, I would imagine some of it being pulverized immediately, some of it being pulverized on the way down as the moving mass crashed through the standing structure, and some of being pulverized when the whole mass hit the ground and all of the remaining kinetic energy was converted to heat.

This is evocative, but there is no evidence for this. None. Every picture and every video show the floors turning into powder, systematically. All of your ideas about the collapse are evocative, but they do not match what we observe. At all.

Sorry, but that's total baloney, and I see that you've been called on that before. What the videos show is that both powder and big chunks are being ejected in the cloud you can see, and there's no way to tell from the videos what percentage of each is present in the cloud, much less what's going on inside the building, at any given point. You're the one making totally unsupported assertions here.

Roger, suppose you explain to me what happened with the top 12 floors of WTC1. So 98 fails and the top 12 floors fall down one to 97, right? Then what? Does 97 break and the whole thing falls down another level to 96? Is that what you think? What do we observe Roger?

I have no idea what you're getting at. The videos show the top sections of each tower crashing through the next floor, as would be expected if the momentum greatly exceeded the carrying capacity. It's clear that the resistance of the towers is slowing the fall, somewhat: The debris that's falling away from the towers is obviously falling faster than the towers are collapsing. The fact that the falling mass isn't slowed very much is simply an indication that its momentum greatly exceeds the carrying capacity, precisely as predicted by calculations. It's absurd to suggest, as Judy Wood has, that the mass should come to a stop, then the next floor would "break free," then begin accelerating at G. As more and more mass gets moving faster and faster, the carrying capacity becomes a smaller and smaller fraction of the momentum present, so the falling mass is slowed less and less as the collapse progresses, until it's crashing through the remaining structure at "near" freefall speeds. But no matter how many times CTers demand an explanation for the "freefall" speed of the collapse, there's no need to explain things that obviously didn't happen. If you and Judy Wood want to convince people that the towers fell "too fast," based on absolutely nothing but your own assertions, you really need to start by convincing people that you have some minimal understanding of the physics involved. When you start off by demonstrating that you don't, your argument is dead in the water.
 
Quoted for Apathoid.

Note that it is physical impossible for a human being to be a myspace page.

Thanks Bell, its not who I was thinking anyways(thank heavens). His myspace page says he's 5'6" and my ex-coworker is about my height, 6'1", or better. It is odd, because "Nick" is a dead ringer for Jay(also from Cleveland). He even wore the same type of shades!
 
gravy said:
TS1234 recently stated that he expected to see entire intact floor slabs from the towers, stacked up, like a doughnut with a hole in the center.

As an experiment, and for dinner, I made crepes.....

As an experiment, this morning I bought and ate 2 donuts (1 pumpkin spice and 1 coconut). My conclusion: donuts are delicious. I suggest independent replication, perhaps confirming my results with other donut varieties.

Sadly, my experiment will have as much of an impact on TS et al. as yours, gravy.
 
Right there is the problem. He seems to belive there was no rubble, that it all turned to dust. We've tried to show him otherwise, but he won't budge.

N0o. no, NO!
IT used all its PE up by turning into KE.
It's like the salad bar--you get 1 trip only!

Now, I have some really prime beach property in New Mexico I can let you have for a really, really good price....
 
If a falling object hits something on the way down, it will slow down in exact proportion to amount of kinetic energy that's converted to heat, which might be all of the energy, most of it, or just some of it, depending on the circumstances. <<Lsnipped stuff that a high-school graduate understands but a CT'er with a Master's in Physics finds incomprehensible>>.

But Roger (other roger--I'm senior here, by golly!)
According to CT theory, if you interject your head between the falling block and your toe, the block cannot hurt your head
It is my considered opinion (that's opinion, CT'ers)
Too many experiments of this type have taken place by CT'ers, with total obliviousness to the result being the major contributing factor to their worldview...
 
N0o. no, NO!
IT used all its PE up by turning into KE.
It's like the salad bar--you get 1 trip only!

No, it's more like an "all you can eat" buffet, where they keep force feeding you till you burst!

Now, I have some really prime beach property in New Mexico I can let you have for a really, really good price....

Oooh! Tell me more! It's almost winter here, and I need a nice desert beach to escape to!
 
if you interject your head between the falling block and your toe, the block cannot hurt your head

Unless we were to disintegrate your head with a Star Wars Beam Weapon, just before the impact. Then you'd be fine.
 
TS1234 seems to think if you breakup or powderize the concrete it cant hurt anything

so, which weighs more (and thus is capable of exerting more force at a given acceleration) a pound of solid concrete, a pound of concrete rubble, or a pound of concrete powder?
 
TS1234 seems to think if you breakup or powderize the concrete it cant hurt anything

so, which weighs more (and thus is capable of exerting more force at a given acceleration) a pound of solid concrete, a pound of concrete rubble, or a pound of concrete powder?

That's a trick question! We all know it's either all solid or all powder, there's no rubble!

And you thought I'd fall for that!
 
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Excellent compilation of obvious logic. The fact that the opposition does not quote you often shows that your reasoning cannot be defeated.

Personally I think they are convinced. They know it was a demolition but cannot bring themselves to oppose the parental figures of government. Without them they would have nothing, no guidence to the future.

Controlled by fear there is no ability to communicate with their fellow country person to establish priorities of needs relating to; rights, freedoms and justice, so must support illogical nonsense to fend off the fearful darkness of the unkown.

You know, you wax damn near poetic with that post.

I miss them so
I knew they were unreal
but that just makes the absence hurt more.
 

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