ACLU reports Pentagon tracking peace activists as potential terrorists.

[Dancing David]

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spyfiles/27050prs20061012.html

Documents released today by the American Civil Liberties Union reveal new details of Pentagon surveillance of Americans opposed to the Iraq war, including Quakers and student groups. The documents show that the Pentagon was keeping tabs on non-violent protesters by collecting information and storing it in a military anti-terrorism database.
….

The documents come in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by the ACLU earlier this year after evidence surfaced that the Pentagon was secretly conducting surveillance of protest activities, anti-war organizations and groups opposed to military recruitment policies. The Pentagon shared the information with other government agencies through the Threat and Local Observation Notice (TALON) database.

The TALON database was intended to track groups or individuals with links to terrorism, but the documents released today show that the Pentagon gathered information on anti-war protesters using sources from the Department of Homeland Security, local police departments and FBI Joint Terrorism Task Forces.
….

One document, which is labeled "potential terrorist activity," lists events such as a "Stop the War NOW!" rally in Akron, Ohio on March 19, 2005. The source noted that the rally "will have a March and Reading of Names of War Dead" and that marchers would pass a military recruitment station and the local FBI office along the way.

Also included in the documents is information on a series of protests mistakenly identified as taking place in Springfield, Illinois (the protests actually occurred in Springfield, Massachusetts). According to the document, "Source received an e-mail from the American Friends Service Committee (AFSC), e-mail address: [REDACTED] that stated that on March 18-20, a series of protest actions were planned in the Springfield, IL area… to focus on actions at military recruitment offices with the goals to include: raising awareness, education, visibility in community, visibility to recruiters as part of a national day of action."
….

The ACLU said it is concerned that the Defense Department cites acts of civil disobedience and vandalism as cause to label anti-war protests as "radical" and potential terrorist threats in some of the TALON reports. In a document listing upcoming Atlanta area protests by the Georgia Peace and Justice Coalition, the Pentagon - citing the Department of Homeland Security as its source - states that the Students for Peace and Justice network poses a threat to DOD personnel.

To support that claim, the TALON report cites previous acts of civil disobedience in California and Texas, including sit-ins, disruptions at recruitment offices and street theater. Describing one protest in Austin, Texas, the document notes: "The protesters blocked the entrance to the recruitment office with two coffins, one draped with an American flag and the other covered with an Iraqi flag, taped posters on the window of the office and chanted, ‘No more war and occupation. You don’t have to die for an education.’"

 

[Darth Rotor]

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spyfiles/27050prs20061012.html

That is a rational approach to finding infiltrators into the country who will aid and abet saboteurs and terrorists. IMO, the FBI ought to be doing it, given the Posse Comitatus Act's restrictions on the use of the Armed Forces of the US for law enforcement matters, but it is irrational to give privileged sanctuary among a sea of protesters to those attempting to use them as cover for less lawful actions against the US.

DR

 

[fuelair]

That is a rational approach to finding infiltrators into the country who will aid and abet saboteurs and terrorists. IMO, the FBI ought to be doing it, given the Posse Comitatus Act's restrictions on the use of the Armed Forces of the US for law enforcement matters, but it is irrational to give privileged sanctuary among a sea of protesters to those attempting to use them as cover for less lawful actions against the US.

DR

Friendly reminder from a Vietnam vet(Binh Hoa, 9th Med Lab, 44th Evac, Located right down main drag from LBJ) (69-70). Pentagon,FBI and local police did that during VN War period. Made them the enemy for many years after when all the silliness behind the war started showing the "peacenicks/Hippy's" had been mostly right about it all.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Friendly reminder from a Vietnam vet(Binh Hoa, 9th Med Lab, 44th Evac, Located right down main drag from LBJ) (69-70). Pentagon,FBI and local police did that during VN War period. Made them the enemy for many years after when all the silliness behind the war started showing the "peacenicks/Hippy's" had been mostly right about it all.

I am aware of the history on that, thanks. That history does not render the Posse Comitatus Act invalid.

It also does not preclude the utility of the useful idiots section of the antiwar movement (which is not the entire movement) as a fertile ground for recruiting indigenous operatives and agents. Playing ostrich and pretending that such a group of people does not hold promising recruits to a fifth column is irresponsible. If someone is serious about "the war on terror" and cracking fifth column movements, which is what terrorist cells in this country are, then farming fertile ground in the hunt for fifth column elements is rational policy.

Are all anti war activists potential saboteurs? Hell no. You have to separate the wheat from the chaffe. I am certain, for example, that Daniel Ellsberg is not going to bomb anyone, for all his anti war activism and rehtoric. Likewise Noam Chomsky isn't anyone who needs "watching."

Is it rational to assume that, like the anarchists of the Viet Nam protest era, some fools can be recruited to commit violent acts?

Yes.

Santayana for fifty, Alex.

DR

 

[Tony]

What are you talking about? Peace activists are notorious for being terrorists, just ask any true american. These people here:

http://www.armyofgod.com/

are the real peace activists.

 

[Cylinder]

DOD has long had clear authority from Congress to investigate threats against DOD property, personnel and installations. If you don't think DOD cannot touch you because you're a civilian - I suggest shoplifting your closest AAFES. If you're of the mind that blocking the entrance of a government office is protected speech, I suggest your local police department or precinct station.

 

[EBU]

If the government has done similar things before (e.g. Vietnam), they should have a track record. How many terrorists have they caught using such methods? Or is that number classified?

 

[drkitten]

That is a rational approach to finding infiltrators into the country who will aid and abet saboteurs and terrorists. IMO, the FBI ought to be doing it, given the Posse Comitatus Act's restrictions on the use of the Armed Forces of the US for law enforcement matters, but it is irrational to give privileged sanctuary among a sea of protesters to those attempting to use them as cover for less lawful actions against the US.

Thank you for illustrating so vividly such a novel use of the word "rational" with which I was previously unfamiliar.

Unfortunately, in the dialect of English that I speak, for an approach to be "rational" requires it to have some basis in evidence and reason.

What's your evidence that such "infiltrators ... who will aid and abet saboteurs and terrorists" actually exist, or that they are using protestors as a cover?

In particular, why should the American Friends Service Committee be subject to any more strict scrutiny than, say, the local branch of the Tappa Kegga Bru fraternity down at Enormous State University?

 

[Dancing David]

That is a rational approach to finding infiltrators into the country who will aid and abet saboteurs and terrorists. IMO, the FBI ought to be doing it, given the Posse Comitatus Act's restrictions on the use of the Armed Forces of the US for law enforcement matters, but it is irrational to give privileged sanctuary among a sea of protesters to those attempting to use them as cover for less lawful actions against the US.

DR

That makes sense but i think the conspiracy theory was a little more far fetched.

 

[Dancing David]

Because they are brothers of I Felta Thigh and they know that "fraternity pranks" like drowning are not really torture. Frat brothers would never sell out the country.

 

[ponderingturtle]

DOD has long had clear authority from Congress to investigate threats against DOD property, personnel and installations. If you don't think DOD cannot touch you because you're a civilian - I suggest shoplifting your closest AAFES. If you're of the mind that blocking the entrance of a government office is protected speech, I suggest your local police department or precinct station.

ANd if you think that america tolerates political discent you have another thing coming.

Oh I know what it is, we are exporting our freedom, so you have to expect a local depleation of freedom

 

[ponderingturtle]

Thank you for illustrating so vividly such a novel use of the word "rational" with which I was previously unfamiliar.

Unfortunately, in the dialect of English that I speak, for an approach to be "rational" requires it to have some basis in evidence and reason.

What's your evidence that such "infiltrators ... who will aid and abet saboteurs and terrorists" actually exist, or that they are using protestors as a cover?

In particular, why should the American Friends Service Committee be subject to any more strict scrutiny than, say, the local branch of the Tappa Kegga Bru fraternity down at Enormous State University?

Hey you never know when a quaker is going to lose it and go suicide shunning.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Thank you for illustrating so vividly such a novel use of the word "rational" with which I was previously unfamiliar.

Unfortunately, in the dialect of English that I speak, for an approach to be "rational" requires it to have some basis in evidence and reason.

What's your evidence that such "infiltrators ... who will aid and abet saboteurs and terrorists" actually exist, or that they are using protestors as a cover?

In particular, why should the American Friends Service Committee be subject to any more strict scrutiny than, say, the local branch of the Tappa Kegga Bru fraternity down at Enormous State University?

Rational approach is to assess each group on its merits, assign a threat probablity factor, and pursue those leads that are more likely to be tied to foreign agents provoceateurs than not.

I don't understand why you propose a strawman of Quakers as equivalent to SDS, or tcontemporary equivalent, nor do I think you have the gall to assert so, regardless of the smart arsed tone of your post.

The vetting process is the first of many steps in a threat assessment. Not all "groups" are equally likely to recruit a fifth column. Or do you use a broad tar brush on all problems presented to YOU for solution?

As I pointed out, not all antiwar groups fall into the same "useful idiot" ategory.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

ANd if you think that america tolerates political discent you have another thing coming.

Oh I know what it is, we are exporting our freedom, so you have to expect a local depleation of freedom

Dear PT:

Dissent
Depletion
America
And

In two sentences, you demonstrate a need to learn how to use the "Preview Post" button. I have walked a mile or two in those shoes.

Your sarcasm is noted.

DR

 

[Dancing David]

Dear PT:

Dissent
Depletion
America
And

In two sentences, you demonstrate a need to learn how to use the "Preview Post" button. I have walked a mile or two in those shoes.

Your sarcasm is noted.

DR

Cheeze it guts, it's the Speeling Poleace, lets beet a hosty retraet.

I much prefer to spell in Italian and Spanish.

 

[Demigorgon]

Documents released today by the American Civil Liberties Union

That's when I stopped reading.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Cheeze it guts, it's the Speeling Poleace, lets beet a hosty retraet.

I much prefer to spell in Italian and Spanish.

Then you have failed miserably in this post, having (deliberately) spelled badly in English, and not at all in Italiano, nor Espaňol.

??: the normal tilde doesn't appear in my character map. That's weird.

DR

 

[drkitten]

R
I don't understand why you propose a strawman of Quakers as equivalent to SDS,

It's hardly a strawman. The American Friends Service Committee is specifically one of the organizations named for surveillance by the FBI, according to the cited article.

Evidently the Pentagon considers the Quakers to pose a credible terrorist threat.

nor do I think you have the gall to assert so, regardless of the smart arsed tone of your post.

I don't. But evidently the Pentagon does, and you explicitly consider it "rational" that they do so.

 

[Cylinder]

ANd if you think that america tolerates political discent you have another thing coming.

Define dissent. You are very certainly free in the United States to express views contrary to the current government's policy and officials. You are not free to vandalize or disrupt governmental operations or to deny other citizens of their rights to speak unless they are your minor child.

Are you sure you're not mistaking freedom of speech with the (non-existent) freedom to compel people to listen? Those are quite different animals.

 

[brodski]

That's when I stopped reading.

So you think that the ACLU faked these documents?