My only brush with the paranormal

[The Atheist]

But then came a Sunday it wasn't some stranger being healed of some hidden malady. My sister's boyfriend has an uncle, and his uncle, at the time had a young daughter about 5 years old.

Does nobody else see the complete lack of common-sense in those two statements:

"It was no stranger"

"It was my sister's boyfriend's uncle's child"

Hell, I bet you and her were just bosom buddies.

 

[SezMe]

snagswolf, this incident you describe happened 33 years ago. I would hope that you are familiar with the degradation of memories of events that old - if not, I suggest some background reading.

It would be interesting to attempt to verify your memory. Are any of the players still alive? What do they remember? Is there physical evidence of the club feet in present x-rays? Is there any documentation of other, non-paranormal efforts to fix the problem?

In other words, use your memory only as a starting point to look into this event. Come back and tell us what you find out.

 

[Nucular]

Snagswolf, welcome.

Actually, I'd still be interested personally to see any photos you could obtain. Although they would be proof of nothing, occasionally useful information can be extracted from them re: possible explanations or indications of trickery or error.

Given Loss Leader's observation (post #20) that club foot can these days be very successfully treated, the most likely explanation does seem to be that successful medical intervention took place, but that this was erroneously attributed to the faith healer, based on a post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy (because improvements were noticed after faith healing, they must have been because of them). That is, it seems to me the most likely explanation simply through parsimony (Occam's razor), so it would be interesting to see if any evidence could be gathered to go towards supporting or rejecting the hypothesis - e.g. by immediately before and after pictures, accompanied by an affadavit from the doctor under whose treatment the girl was? This may sound stringent, but such evidence, assuming it stood up to scrutiny, would at least be a start.

So, it's be interesting to know what you think of this possibility. Bear in mind also that memory is incredibly malleable and unreliable, and that a story like this, which must have been rehearsed and retold a thousand times in your family, is especially vulnerable to 'evolution'.

 

[fls]

Yet you tell this story as if it where supposed to inspire hope that things could get better; when in fact, if the story were true, it would merely show that all disease and illness are there because God wants them to be (given that he could make them go away in an instant). You think this is an example of somebody getting a special exemption; you do not understand it is an example of everyone else not getting a special exemption.

It takes a special kind of person to stand up in middle of a crowd of tortured, abused, crippled, dying children and shout, "Look at this! My cousin had a hang-nail cured by God!"

I think I'm in love. Will you father my children?

Linda

 

[Rodney]

We are left to conclude one of two things:


A) There is a God, and He is the most capricious being imaginable. He does not conform to any human understanding of good, fair, reliable, responsible, reasonable, manageable, or comprehensible, yet He controls all aspects of our lives for his own inscrutable reasons. We are but playthings to Him. He heals or ruins, saves or damns whomever he wants, with no more concern for them than your cousin has for her stuffed animals. Actually, with less, if your cousin is a normal child.

B) You are somehow mistaken in your observations, and the laws of physics and nature did not spontaneously change.

Have you ever taken a course in elementary logic, Yahzi? If you had and you learned anything whatever, you would not make absurd either or "choices" of this nature.

 

[Old man]

"It was no stranger"

"It was my sister's boyfriend's uncle's child"

Interesting. when I first read this line

My sister's boyfriend has an uncle, and his uncle, at the time had a young daughter

I took it to mean the boyfriend's uncle had an uncle with a young daughter, so I thought there was even more separation than you did.

But, your interpretation makes 'boyfriend' the cousin of 'child', and since many families are very close, the OP may very well have had enough of contact with her.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Even if it weren't jerky, it's rude and uncalled for to insult someone who is merely giving an account of something they admit was strange and difficult to believe.

I don't agree. If they're stupid enough to believe nonsense....

 

[Cuddles]

He basically said "Here's a weird thing which happened to me a long time ago. I have no explanation for it. I have no proof of it. Make of it what you will."

Actually, what he said was -

That said, I've had one occurrence in my life that can't be explained by any science, coincidence, physics, etc.

...snip...

But I know what I saw, and because of that, I personally know there are things we don't yet fully understand.

Someone saying "Here's something weird, what do you think?" will be happily wellcomed and talked to. Someone coming to a skeptical forum and saying "This happened and it was supernatural, so there!" will be ridiculed, and deservedly so, especially if they do so while claiming to be a skeptic.

 

[Loss Leader]

Snagswolf seems to have fallen silent on this issue. It's a shame because I really would like to know more about the facts of the case. I only hope he hasn't stopped posting out of intimidation or fear of ridicule.

 

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

Actually, what he said was -

Someone saying "Here's something weird, what do you think?" will be happily wellcomed and talked to. Someone coming to a skeptical forum and saying "This happened and it was supernatural, so there!" will be ridiculed, and deservedly so, especially if they do so while claiming to be a skeptic.

Ridiculous.

How many of us have come to this forum being, for the most part, skeptics, but still hanging on to some nonsensical belief? For some of us, it takes time to be able to critically reevaluate all of our experiences, no matter how much they excite our imaginations.

I think my opinion of this forum would have been quite different from the start if I posted something similar to the OP and got blasted like he/she did. Lucky for me, it seems that most of the blowhards and egomaniacs took a few days off at that time.

Hey guys, let's chase off another person who isn't as 'hardcore skeptic' as we are!

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Cuddles]

Ridiculous.

How many of us have come to this forum being, for the most part, skeptics, but still hanging on to some nonsensical belief? For some of us, it takes time to be able to critically reevaluate all of our experiences, no matter how much they excite our imaginations.

I think my opinion of this forum would have been quite different from the start if I posted something similar to the OP and got blasted like he/she did. Lucky for me, it seems that most of the blowhards and egomaniacs took a few days off at that time.

Hey guys, let's chase off another person who isn't as 'hardcore skeptic' as we are!

Absolutely ridiculous.

Go back and read what I wrote, then tell me how any of that pointless rant was even related to my post.

 

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

Go back and read what I wrote, then tell me how any of that pointless rant was even related to my post.

First of all I apologize if I gave the impression that my post was entirely directed at you. It wasn't; You just happened to make the last of such posts that I quoted.

But as far as what I said relating to your post. You state that anyone making claims of something being supernatural should be 'ridiculed, and deservedly so'. My point was that many of us came to this board believing in one thing or another that was supernatural, though many of us, through civil discussion have been able to re-evaluate our beliefs.

If I was 'ridiculed, and deservedly so' when I started, I may not have stayed around long enough to have a chance of doing so.

Am I misunderstanding your point?

 

[Yahzi]

in a non-combative manner

Stating that one believes in a miracle, regardless of what evidence or logic anyone else presents, is in and of itself combative.

It's like telling someone they're a ho: it doesn't matter what words you use, or how polite your tone, it's still an insult.

To assert that all science is merely guesswork, and that anyone who believes in empirical fact is a uneducated fool, is combative.

 

[Yahzi]

civil discussion

You may note that the poster simply ignored my contribution to the discussion. And yet I was the only one to say, "Let us assume you are right."

The failure to respond to that line of inquiry is evidence that the original poster was not actually interested in discussion, polite or otherwise. The people who responded to the OP with ridicule and laughter should not be faulted for their prescience.

Of course, I knew I would be ignored; but I wanted an opportunity to speechify.

 

[Yahzi]

I think I'm in love. Will you father my children?

Hehe. I met my wife because of what she said on a message board: "Ethics should be derived from first principles..."

I highly recommend this approach. Although you should check the origin of the poster a little more carefully than I did. Australia is a long way to go for a first date.

 

[Yahzi]

It's a shame because I really would like to know more about the facts of the case.

I would also like a response to my post, where I point out that God giving out a special exemption is just a reminder of all the times God does not give out a special exemption.

 

[hcmom]

To assert that all science is merely guesswork, and that anyone who believes in empirical fact is a uneducated fool, is combative.

(Bolding is mine)

You sure read a lot more into what he's said than I have...

 

[Rodney]

(Bolding is mine)

You sure read a lot more into what he's said than I have...

That happens a lot with Yahzi.

 

[snagswolf]

You may note that the poster simply ignored my contribution to the discussion. And yet I was the only one to say, "Let us assume you are right."

The failure to respond to that line of inquiry is evidence that the original poster was not actually interested in discussion, polite or otherwise. The people who responded to the OP with ridicule and laughter should not be faulted for their prescience.

Of course, I knew I would be ignored; but I wanted an opportunity to speechify.

I considered that it would be rude for me to apologize for starting the topic, and then continue to discuss it.

However, to respond to your specific post, I never claimed in this thread that God was responsible. Describing the situation where it happened was required to tell the story.

And to answer some of the other questions, I'll find out more specific information from my sister and give you all an update when I do. If I do find out anything where I've remembered incorrectly, or left out something that could possibly explain it, I'll let you know.

 

[Loss Leader]

And to answer some of the other questions, I'll find out more specific information from my sister and give you all an update when I do. If I do find out anything where I've remembered incorrectly, or left out something that could possibly explain it, I'll let you know.

I would be very glad to know the answers to the following: How severe was the club foot deformity at birth? What treatment if any had the child had from birth to the date of the revival? What was the state of her deformity immediately preceeding the healing? What treatment was she receiving at the time of the healing? What was the state of her deformity immediately after the healing? What treatments if any did she have immediately after and going forward? Did the state of her deformity change for the worse or better after the immediate post-healing period? What was the state of her condition into adulthood?

You know, the usual stuff.