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My only brush with the paranormal

snagswolf

Scholar
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
99
Hey there. I'm new here so you all don't know me very well, but I'm pretty straight forward and tend to be very skeptical. If I don't see it for myself, I don't believe it. I'm here mainly to participate and learn more about debunking the 9/11 conspiracy kooks.

That said, I've had one occurrence in my life that can't be explained by any science, coincidence, physics, etc.

When I was 15, around 1973, I would go with my sister and her boyfriend's (future husband) family up to Youngstown, OH, (I'm from Pittsburgh) every Sunday to attend Kathryn Kuhlman's services. For those not familiar with her, Kathryn Kuhlman was an evangelist, in the vein of Billy Graham.

I wasn't really into it, but I would go with my sister and the family and take in the sights. Most of the time, Kathryn Kuhlman would just preach, and they'd all sing, and it would be fairly entertaining.

But ever few months or so, she would hold healing services. She was always admant that she wasn't a faith healer, but that it was God who was doing the healing. I would watch the goings on with skepticism, as she would call out healings that were happening, and people would come up to the stage and claim they were healed of various ailments, from bad backs to deafness to cancer. Without anything to personally verify these healings, I certainly took them with a grain of salt, even at my young age.

But then came a Sunday it wasn't some stranger being healed of some hidden malady. My sister's boyfriend has an uncle, and his uncle, at the time had a young daughter about 5 years old. This girl was born with two club feet, and was afflicted with this condition until that day. She left that healing service with two perfectly healthy and two perfectly shaped feet, and I saw them, up close, with my own eyes.

Of course, this is my anecdotal story, and if someone was telling it to me, I would be skeptical myself. But I know what I saw, and because of that, I personally know there are things we don't yet fully understand.
 
She left that healing service with two perfectly healthy and two perfectly shaped feet, and I saw them, up close, with my own eyes.
She left with four feet? Praise Jeebus!!

What is the purpose of your post? What makes you think anyone here would be interested in a miracle that happened to your sister's boyfriend's uncle's daughter?
 
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What is the purpose of your post?
Just to tell a story of something that happened to me.

Again, I expect skepticism. I would be skeptical if someone told it to me.

Edit: Actually, to be specific, this isn't something that happened to me, just something I saw.
 
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Yes. And I could ask my sister for some photos if anyone's interested.
Don't waste your time. Pictures are meaningless without verification.

How about getting the family doctor to sign a notorized affidavit? I'm sure the child must have been seen by a doctor for the foot condition?
 
On a lighter note, a story that was definitely NOT a brush with the paranormal:

My wife and I decided to go on the tour of Moundsville Penitentiary, which is a closed prison in nearby Moundsville WV.

We get there, and it turns out it's only us and one other couple on the tour. And the other couple are 'ghost hunters'. They had all kinds of low-tech paraphenelia, like cameras, lasers, and flashlights. I had my camera, and they kept asking me if I was 'getting anything'. I told them I wasn't really looking for any ghosts, but they kept giving me tips on what to look for. I had to promise them I would check my photos when I got home.

My wife was less tactful, and couldn't stop herself from cracking up the whole time. :)
 
Don't waste your time. Pictures are meaningless without verification.
I can't argue with that.

How about getting the family doctor to sign a notorized affidavit? I'm sure the child must have been seen by a doctor for the foot condition?
Two reasons. I don't need a affidavit to convince me, and I'm not here to convince you.

It's ok. I understand. As I said, I wouldn't believe me either.
 
My sister's boyfriend has an uncle, and his uncle, at the time had a young daughter about 5 years old.

I am usually suspicious of any tale that involves an anecdote about a sister's boyfriend's uncle's uncle's daughter.

Is the girl still "cured"?

Randi wrote a book called "The Faith Healers" which I'd love to read. He found many claims, but not one substantiated case of actual healing. Yours would be the first. There's also this, from a review of the book “Pseudoscience and the Paranormal” in the January/February 2006 issue of ‘Skeptical Inquirer’:

“Helen Sullivan could walk only with a back brace, due to the cancer that had weakened the bones of her spinal cord. But when faith healer Kathryn Kuhlman told her that her cancer was cured, Sullivan threw off her back brace and ran across the stage several times as the audience applauded and Kuhlman praised the Lord. For the rest of the evening, Sullivan felt no pain, but by early morning, the pain had returned, only more intense than before. Without the support of her brace, one of her vertebrae had collapsed. Two months later, Sullivan was dead of the cancer that Kuhlman had “cured” her of.”

"According to the author, Terence Hines, instances of faith healing can be explained by the role that emotional arousal plays in pain suppression. The brain produces a class of chemicals called endorphins that are released to suppress pain during times of stress or emotional arousal. After the session, the pain returns, often magnified by subsequent damage, but, as Hines points out, “faith healers almost never follow up on cases they claim to have cured, [so] it is easy to understand why both members of the audience and the healers themselves can become convinced that their cures are real."
 
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Two reasons. I don't need a affidavit to convince me, and I'm not here to convince you.

It's ok. I understand. As I said, I wouldn't believe me either.

More mantras of the believers. You are simply deluded or a liar.
 
Two reasons. I don't need a affidavit to convince me, and I'm not here to convince you.

It's ok. I understand. As I said, I wouldn't believe me either.

Then what's the point?

If you give a group of skeptics an anecdote they're going to ask for evidence. Not only do you not provide any, by your own admission you have no intention of providing any, because you "aren't here to convince us".

So you're convinced, and we're not. Whoop-de-doo. I'm sure I speak for many when I say "OK, whatever buddy."

Doing a bit of trolling, perhaps?
 
Welcome Snagswolf!

Most of us here have our own tales of the unexplained, some solutions, so with most probable solutions, and some with heck but I'm not going to go woo over it.
What's your own most probable natural explanation?

My two questions are:

1. What was the actual severity of her "clubfoot" condition?
2. Were you able to see her subsequently? I mean was the condition permanantly changed?

Under circumstances of suggestion a muscle related "deformity" can be altered temporarily.
 
Hey there. I'm new here so you all don't know me very well, but I'm pretty straight forward and tend to be very skeptical. If I don't see it for myself, I don't believe it. I'm here mainly to participate and learn more about debunking the 9/11 conspiracy kooks.

That said, I've had one occurrence in my life that can't be explained by any science, coincidence, physics, etc.

"Skeptical" does not mean "I believe it only when I see it". You should also be skeptical of that which you do see. And as a fifteen-year-old, were you really qualified to decide that what you saw "can't be explained"? A miracle such as this would come to the attention of the physicians caring for the girl, and through them would spread throughout the medical community. It doesn't look like people with the knowledge and experience to make that determination found it inexplicable. Why did you ignore that?

Of course, this is my anecdotal story, and if someone was telling it to me, I would be skeptical myself. But I know what I saw, and because of that, I personally know there are things we don't yet fully understand.

By "things we don't fully understand" you seem to mean "things that violate our understanding of natural laws". Wouldn't you like to have more than your own inexpert observation from 30 years ago to come to a conclusion that profound? Sure, I've seen things *I* can't explain, but I don't decide that whatever it is unexplainable unless it's been investigated by someone with the skills to make that determination.

Linda
 
She left with four feet? Praise Jeebus!!

What is the purpose of your post? What makes you think anyone here would be interested in a miracle that happened to your sister's boyfriend's uncle's daughter?

I believe it is called polite conversation. I have heard it happens sometimes, even on the Internet. In fact it is even easier here because the speaker is not standing in front of you akwardly awaiting a reply. If you are not interested you can say nothing and no one will be the wiser.
 
Hey there. I'm new here so you all don't know me very well, but I'm pretty straight forward and tend to be very skeptical. If I don't see it for myself, I don't believe it. I'm here mainly to participate and learn more about debunking the 9/11 conspiracy kooks.

That said, I've had one occurrence in my life that can't be explained by any science, coincidence, physics, etc.

...

Of course, this is my anecdotal story, and if someone was telling it to me, I would be skeptical myself. But I know what I saw, and because of that, I personally know there are things we don't yet fully understand.

I'm sceptical of your claim to be skeptical. Perhaps what you meant to say was "I've had one experience in my life that I can't explain". Seeing one thing you don't understand and immediately jumping to the conclusion that it was not due to anything scientific is the exact opposite of skepticism.
 
Snagswolf,

Interesting story. As you can see by some of the replies to your OP many skeptics here are complete jerks, and their input is worthless.

I think faith-healings, as well as many other paranormal phenomena, are a manifestation of the power of the mind, not a manifestation of the power of God. (although sometimes the two are one in the same) The combined faith and mental power of the crowd...focused by the priest, healed her club-feet. This is a type of thought-form.
 
So club feet can be corrected by putting the child in casts as the feet grow or, in severe cases, by surgery. Doctors aim at creating a normal-looking foot. (source) A five year-old child would today be pretty much done with treatment. (source) I have no idea what the state of affairs was in 1973.

It's possible the child was wearing casts which were removed during the faith healing. If so, the feet should have looked quite normal as the child would have been very near the end of any treatment. Of course, the other possibilities mentioned above (with the exception of the power of the mind thing) are also just as likely.

I would have to see pictures of the feet immediately before and after the faith healing to continue to care.
 

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