Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

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defaultdotxbe said:
heres a picture of them pouring the concrete floor:

[qimg]http://xbehome.com/screwloosechange/pictures/floor.JPG[/qimg]

on the right you can see a few core columns, obviously the floor was poured before the advancement of the "concrete" core
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Yes, I do see interior box columns. However notice, there is something cutting off our view of the floor edge on the far side at the bottom of the columns. That could easily be the top edge of the concrete forms of the core.
 
uruk said:
Then the floors could not have been attached to a "concrete core".
If the core was the main structural support for the building, the core would have to be formed first, then the other structures attached to it.
In fact that is what you see here in the construction of this building.:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1993049&postcount=5114

If the concrete core was the main structural support, then it had to be formed first. The workers would have notice a concrete core whaile they were attaching steel to it.
Click to expand...

Smaller cores in towers are built ahead of the steel. Large cores are built after the steel using the steel as form supports. WTC 7 is being built now in that way.

Attaching anything to concrete is difficult. Meaning the interior box columns which had great strength were attached to the concrete core and floor beams went between them then the fightweight floors were fastened to that.

Attaching flimsy metal elements, protruding outward, to concrete just doesn't work. There were beams running from the interior box columns every other one, 40 feet, to connect to the perimeter walls.
 
Christophera, have you bothered to speak with those who were responsible for the design and construction of the twin towers? You've now had 7 days to do so.

I dont know why you continue to spend time here, when all you have to do is call the design firm up and ask simply "did the towers have a concrete core".

ETA: I still suggest that we put a censor on Chris's website, since he's only using it to spam the forum. He's only gaining "hits" from this thread with his repeated attempts to promote it. Only when Chris starts using resources from other credible websites, should the censor be lifted.
 
Christophera said:
Smaller cores in towers are built ahead of the steel. Large cores are built after the steel using the steel as form supports. WTC 7 is being built now in that way.

Attaching anything to concrete is difficult. Meaning the interior box columns which had great strength were attached to the concrete core and floor beams went between them then the fightweight floors were fastened to that.

Attaching flimsy metal elements, protruding outward, to concrete just doesn't work. There were beams running from the interior box columns every other one, 40 feet, to connect to the perimeter walls.
Click to expand...
AH! so were going from one core to multiple cores.
Why aren't the smaller cores mention before in your website? Where are they on your "corrected" illustration? Making stuff up on the fly?

Why did the mowhawk not mention the smaller concrete cores? He certainly would have seen them since they had to put steel over the smaller cores then put the large concrete core over the steel.
 
Christophera said:
I said "almost". The explosive circuit was interupted and that piece of the core was isolated from the detonations.
Click to expand...

Great, but that's not what I asked. You claim that the picture on your website shows a 17 foot section of the concrete core. I'm asking you to point out the concrete section on the pictures I posted above. The pictures are of the same section but of a higher resolution. Show me the concrete!
 
Belz... said:
You still maintain that it couldn't just have been cut by the cleanup crew ?
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Under the best conditions using a straight edge guide, a welder. cutter fitter can make a cut that has almost no verigations from tip wobble. However, not every time.

The torch ends up having a overly large tip on it to get this done and that leaves a slightly rounded top and bottom edge,

Belz... said:
You mean you didn't remember before ? That's disconcerting.
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Memories need to be related to things to be recovered. Until I had excercised related aspects, there was no connection to the information.

Belz... said:
Did not remember the core material ? Could be steel, then.
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Yes, I was surprised. But then the steel crews were the elite of the tower construction group. They didn't even think about anything but getting more steel up faster,

Also, for safety, elevators on construction sites are typically tunneled to the work area with plywood. The core was dark inside so there is no seeing concrete while you are in it. The outer forms would cover it until they were stripped and the outer forms would require more time to make than the inner so they would be started right away perhpas leaving a window from the outside for a welder to do the butt welds from a floor when it was convienent.

Belz... said:
Chris, we know you think all those steel columns were box columns. Of course, you're wrong.
Click to expand...

But you can find no images of any other column of sizes matching the interior box columns. Or the "MASSIVE BOX COLUMNS" that are legends almost. All that is seen are puny columns tat are fastened to the interior box columns.

Belz... said:
:boggled: Huh ? Pump the concrete UP ? Dozens of floors ? This ain't water, boy. As Zaary said, if they're going to move the pump up with the building, why not simply use the regular technique ? Or was it really that important that no one knew that they were building a concrete core ?
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Yes, I believe you are correct, more than one pumping station would be required, and I remember there was a segment in the documentary that showed the batch plant and talked about the increasing pressures and auxilary pumps located up higher inthe towers.

Undoubtly they would have preferred that they could keep it all secret, but many people knew. Here is a letter from an architect to his parents.

September 17, 2001
Dear Mom and Dad,

I had just started a letter to you folks when I checked my voice mail
and had a message from Dad to call him back. I enjoyed our brief call, and
thanks for the stock update. I am still shaken over what has happened. I keep
replaying that day over and over in my head. We studied the Trade Towers
extensively when I was in school. They were one of the first examples of an
innovative and efficient structural concept called "tube" restraint. The Sears
Towers are a variation called "bundled tube construction" and the idea is based
on a minimum of interior columns, with the exterior facade having more numerous
exterior perimeter columns. In the case of the WTC, there are no interior
columns. Only a central concrete core roughly 60-80 feet square comprised of
several vertical voids that house exit stairs, hoistways for the elevators,
utility raceways and mechanical chases; and also, significantly, the sprinkler
system main lines. The floors were prefabricated broad cellular panels of
parallel trusses and main decking that had a light weight concrete topping
applied after they were installed. They spanned a distance of roughly 60 feet
from the concrete core to the exterior gridwork of columns and horizontal
beams. the floor trusses restrained the exterior walls and prevented them from
buckling outward. The exterior structural system was prefabricated in panels of
multiple columns (steel tubes only 14 inches square) that spanned vertically
through 2 or three floors. This was a fast way to erect the building and helped
enclose the building faster. At the upper floors, the winds are so high at
times that no other work can begin (including pouring the floor topping) until
the exterior is in place.


Belz... said:
Prove it.
Click to expand...

Look at the images in question. You will see that this image shows the stairwell after the debris is removed.

core wall at its base

Below you can see the position of the interio box colmns surrounding the core. VErtical steel inside the core is much smaller.

"MASSIVE BOX COLUMNS"


Belz... said:
But WHY ? Why not just blow the core structure ONCE and let everything else fall by itself ? And why blow the basement ? It came down from the TOP !
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There was an effort to divide the seismic signals generated by the needed blast(s). Detonating the basement walls first removed a significant amount of energy from the final blasts which fractured te core foundation as the core itself was detonated in 40 foot sectons, 3 per second from the top down just behind a third set of detonations which took out a floor every 75 milliiseconds.
 
uruk said:
Great, but that's not what I asked. You claim that the picture on your website shows a 17 foot section of the concrete core. I'm asking you to point out the concrete section on the pictures I posted above. The pictures are of the same section but of a higher resolution. Show me the concrete!
Click to expand...


I recall that your photos show a debris pile on top of the stairwell. The image I've posted shows that area after the debris is removed.

core wall at its base
 
uruk said:
AH! so were going from one core to multiple cores.
Why aren't the smaller cores mention before in your website? Where are they on your "corrected" illustration? Making stuff up on the fly?

Why did the mowhawk not mention the smaller concrete cores? He certainly would have seen them since they had to put steel over the smaller cores then put the large concrete core over the steel.
Click to expand...

The towers each had a single cast concrete tubular core.

Perhaps you are misreading what I said because we are talking about "concrete cores" (plural).
 
Arus808 said:
Christophera, have you bothered to speak with those who were responsible for the design and construction of the twin towers? You've now had 7 days to do so.

I dont know why you continue to spend time here, when all you have to do is call the design firm up and ask simply "did the towers have a concrete core".

ETA: I still suggest that we put a censor on Chris's website, since he's only using it to spam the forum. He's only gaining "hits" from this thread with his repeated attempts to promote it. Only when Chris starts using resources from other credible websites, should the censor be lifted.
Click to expand...

Since my site,

http://algoxy.com/conc/core.html

only uses raw evidence of images of the demolition, it is more credible than any web site and uses others that have statements from unintersted parties that corroborate the concrete core.

If you are censoreing any of the information, you are doing people a disservice.


I've told you a number of times that no one involved with the construction is going to talk about the true strcuture that was built. You call them. I've read many times where people have called to find that they can get no informaton whatsoever.
 
Christophera said:
I recall that your photos show a debris pile on top of the stairwell. The image I've posted shows that area after the debris is removed.

core wall at its base
Click to expand...

Nope, your picture also has the debris hanging from the core.
Come on Chris, the pictures are form different perspectives. The debris should not make a difference. If there is concrete you should be able to see it. Quit stalling and making excuses, where is the concrete?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2010466&postcount=5551
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2010697&postcount=5556
 
Christophera said:
The towers each had a single cast concrete tubular core.

Perhaps you are misreading what I said because we are talking about "concrete cores" (plural).
Click to expand...

Wait, wait, wait.
What did you mean here?
Smaller cores in towers are built ahead of the steel. Large cores are built after the steel using the steel as form supports. WTC 7 is being built now in that way.
Click to expand...
What were the "smaller cores" made of? If it was concrete, the Mohawk would have have noticed concrete. If it was steel then steel is the main support structure.
 
Christophera said:
Since my site,

http://algoxy.com/conc/core.html

only uses raw evidence of images of the demolition, it is more credible than any web site and uses others that have statements from unintersted parties that corroborate the concrete core.

If you are censoreing any of the information, you are doing people a disservice.


I've told you a number of times that no one involved with the construction is going to talk about the true strcuture that was built. You call them. I've read many times where people have called to find that they can get no informaton whatsoever.
Click to expand...

No, your site uses assumptions and interpretations of pictures. Where is your list of sources for independent verification? Your memory Is not good enough.
 
christophera said:
Yes, I do see interior box columns. However notice, there is something cutting off our view of the floor edge on the far side at the bottom of the columns. That could easily be the top edge of the concrete forms of the core.
Click to expand...

It could also quite easily be a barrier around a lift shaft or stairwell or any other opening in the floor as would be required by law.
 
Christophera said:
Since my site,

http://algoxy.com/conc/core.html

only uses raw evidence of images of the demolition, it is more credible than any web site and uses others that have statements from unintersted parties that corroborate the concrete core.
Click to expand...

It uses nothing of the sort. YOU just download SOMEONE elses images.
That is not raw.

RAW means
YOU took the images yourself and used a camera that didn't compress any of the information within the image upon saving
YOU obtained the images from a reputable source, like the companies involved in the construction of the two buildings.

You seem to have an misunderstanding of the term "raw evidence".
 
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