Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

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Christophera said:
Steel columns would be protruding and silhouetted no matter what material joined them unless is was the same size steel. the steel woul dhave to be a 2 foot thick sold wall to appear like that, but since the columns were vertical it wouldn't. Pieces would be bent and broken sticking out.

Concrete will get ground down as steel debris falls over it to appear axactly as we see..
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8748453043bd77e28.jpg


Posted before by bonavada in this post.

Explosive Sheared left) & Torch Cut Columns (right)
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Those columns where cut by the ironworkers at GZ during the cleanup.
 
Christophera said:
My posts are getting cut off so I'll answer these questions in another.

Obviously this segment of core wall at its base did not detonate. That saved those trapped. After that, the mass of the concrete wall kept the falling debris from crushing the stairwell.
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Obviously, yes, since they weren't blown up in the first place. Stop deviating from your own theories to fit in evidence that disproves your nonsense.

Steel reinforced concrete does has some flexibility. I've done demolition where I've picked up a 6 inch thinck piece of slab with the corner tooth of a crawler loader and continued to lift until the lifting capactiy of the 32 ton machine was exceeded. Pehaps 3 foot of arc over 50 feet was seen. To break it ,a piece of concrete debris about 2 x 2 feet is placed under it then the machine driven on top of the unsupported are adjacent to fractire it.
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Well, I'll have to give you that - somewhat. I have no experience with flexibility of concrete, but I'm pretty sure it would not behave like the survivors described. Wouldn't it be more logical the 'concrete' core should have broken from the impact, instead of swayed? Let alone exploded at once, since the rebar was packed with C4?
 
This photo is a faked since we all know that the core was blown to dust.

11107452f26531f71b.gif
 
homer can't get anything right

uruk said:
What did I do that is different then what you did when you redrew the core diagram. Oh, I know, Mine is based on reality and fact.
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homer, your attempt at using a graphic analysis is not the right approach even if you had proper information to work from. I corrected the core diagram to match evidence and illustrate the core I can prove stood.

uruk said:
Further proof of your hypocracy, lies and obfuscation. If you saw the pictures you would find the shot shows one building straight on and the other at an angle. the models I superimosed reflect this but your not ony are you a liar but your stupid enough to think that nobody else sees that.
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homer, I actually think that your application of the word "stupid" to me applies to you. And, considering how much of this buffoonish posting you do, you could be termed a liar, if you knew what you are doing. Not to be offensive, because I sort of like you, I apply that defensively.
You have the right avatar anyway, nobody else here does except for Peabody. (Does that guy watch old Rocky & Bullwinkle cartoons to get his approach just right or what?)
You are special here, the others are actually smart enough to not try and do what you are attempting. Gravy gave up on it because he was bringing me evidence that I logically implimented to support my assertions. Keep in mind, this has happened time, and time again.

To prove my point I've uploaded a much better image of the sunrise silhouette that shows the top of WTC 1 and its tower. You can see, WTC 1 as WTC 2, is not viewed aligned down the hallways.

Give up homer. You are wasting your time and damaging your clubs efforts at supporting the lie.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3559&stc=1&d=1160958256
 

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Bell said:
Well, I'll have to give you that - somewhat. I have no experience with flexibility of concrete, but I'm pretty sure it would not behave like the survivors described. Wouldn't it be more logical the 'concrete' core should have broken from the impact, instead of swayed? Let alone exploded at once, since the rebar was packed with C4?
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The towers behaved exactly as I would expect. The steel frame work around them protected them from too much flex. Although for all we know, the core was cracked from the impact. That can happen and the steel still keep the concrete in one piece. That high tensile steel rebar is super strong.

Impact, fire and bullets will not detonate C4.
 
Christophera said:
homer, your attempt at using a graphic analysis is not the right approach even if you had proper information to work from. I corrected the core diagram to match evidence and illustrate the core I can prove stood.
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Your diagram does not coincide with the photographs. Why don't you try to do what I did by superimposing your "core" over the photos. See if the match up.

homer, I actually think that your application of the word "stupid" to me applies to you. And, considering how much of this buffoonish posting you do, you could be termed a liar, if you knew what you are doing. Not to be offensive, because I sort of like you, I apply that defensively.
You have the right avatar anyway, nobody else here does except for Peabody. (Does that guy watch old Rocky & Bullwinkle cartoons to get his approach just right or what?)
You are special here, the others are actually smart enough to not try and do what you are attempting. Gravy gave up on it because he was bringing me evidence that I logically implimented to support my assertions. Keep in mind, this has happened time, and time again.

To prove my point I've uploaded a much better image of the sunrise silhouette that shows the top of WTC 1 and its tower. You can see, WTC 1 as WTC 2, is not viewed aligned down the hallways.

Give up homer. You are wasting your time and damaging your clubs efforts at supporting the lie.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3559&stc=1&d=1160958256
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I don't normaly call people "stupid", but your complete denial of what is clearly visible and your habitual lieing and dishonest behaiviour definitly warrants it.
I don't hate you, nor do I particularly like you. I just pity you for your dementia.
 
Chris,

Just for the record, what about this, where is the core on the left one again:



1183545299f8ddc9dc.jpg


And why doesn't it look anything like this:


118354532d6d133ad0.jpg


And don't tell me our view is askew, I get that, but that doesn't account for the near abscence of darkness at the core!
 
Christophera said:
The one on the right yes, was but the one on the left defies any known method of steelwork,

PERIOD!​
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Chris, Chris, Chris. the image on the left is out of focud or blurred by JPEG compression. The detail is too low to make a determination.

I will give you this. Your are right about the left tower in the sunset image. The perspective is shifted by a small but INSIGNIFICANT amount. My superimposed image is still valid. The 3d info derived from the floor plan corresponds to the pictures.

Do what I did. superimpose your "core" over the pictures to see if your info is right.
 
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Christophera said:
The one on the right yes, was but the one on the left defies any known method of steelwork,


PERIOD!​
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Any known method? Are you absolutely sure? It is not even remotely possible this beam was machined this way. Not even possible that you are seeing the end of a steel beam from somewhere that was actually manufactured this way?

Where exactly did this beam come from? Which part of the structure was it from? You have assumed it was cut this way during the collapse but you have no idea about the history of this beam.

Here is a random photograph of steel being manufactured.

Steel%20Beam%20in%20Lab-4.jpg



Notice how the end "defies all known methods of steel work" ?
 
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it's entirely clear to me what's in the picture of the towers below.
the vertical shadows in the left tower are simply LIFT SHAFTS/STAIRWELLS nothing more.....like all of his other unbelievable assertions, how christophera sees evidence in this picture of concrete cores is beyond me.
the towers had an innovative (at the time of building) system of express lifts which took workers up to sky-lobbies at regular intervals. i think there were two sky lobbies one of those at or about the level where the shadows alternate thicken and thin ot in the pic. i have an url with a diagram from a reference book published in the 80's explaining the system. i will post that later today.

another nail in the concrete core coffin.


118354532d6d133ad0.jpg


BTW i think the above picture is one of the most thought-provoking and stunning photographs ever taken of the WTC. the sun slicing through the tower like that emphasises the magnificent beauty of the structure but also reminds us of it's tragic vulnerability.

fuggit i'm getting all tired and emotional. i'm hitting the duckdown and springs.
see youse

BV

BV
 
stateofgrace said:
Any known method? Are you absolutely sure? It is not even remotely possible this beam was machined this way. Not even possible that you are seeing the end of a steel beam from somewhere that was actually manufactured this way?

Where exactly did this beam come from? Which part of the structure was it from? You have assumed it was cut this way during the collapse but you have no idea about the history of this beam.

Here is a random photograph of steel being manufactured.

[qimg]http://www.quakewrap.com/images/Steel%20Beam%20in%20Lab-4.jpg[/qimg]


Notice how the end "defies all known methods of steel work" ?
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Definitely random, in fact it has no relation at all.

Have you certified that is tempered steel?

That is about an 8 inch "H" beam and the flange is maybe 3/4 inch. The machine a press and it is being bent or straightened.

The ends of mild steel "H" and "I" beams are sheared but done so hot at the mill.

When tempered is sheared it is also done hot or much hotter than mild. Like cherry red.

And, this kills any logic you might think you have applied, but you wouldn't know it until you're told.

YOU CANNOT SHEAR A TUBE WITHOUT COLLAPSING IT. Let alone a tempered steel tube of that thickness.
 
uruk said:
Chris, Chris, Chris. the image on the left is out of focud or blurred by JPEG compression. The detail is too low to make a determination.

I will give you this. Your are right about the left tower in the sunset image. The perspective is shifted by a small but INSIGNIFICANT amount. My superimposed image is still valid. The 3d info derived from the floor plan corresponds to the pictures.

Do what I did. superimpose your "core" over the pictures to see if your info is right.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't be able to say that unless you knew where the corner of the core is. Your work is junk
 
alexg said:
Chris,

Just for the record, what about this, where is the core on the left one again:



[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/1183545299f8ddc9dc.jpg[/qimg]

And why doesn't it look anything like this:


[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/118354532d6d133ad0.jpg[/qimg]

And don't tell me our view is askew, I get that, but that doesn't account for the near abscence of darkness at the core!
Click to expand...

The mid day silouette, tower on left is WTC 2.

The below image shows you the the same face of the same tower in a slightly oblique view. You see 3 shear walls, quite narrow on the north, narrow end of the WTC 2 core.

As I've said before the reflected light bleeds across the floors that do not have hallways in the sunrise image. We expect darkness when looking at walls and expect light when looking at hallway doors, even reflected light.


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3561&stc=1&d=1160965729
 

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