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Vladimir Putin, madman, genius, or both?

The Atheist

The Grammar Tyrant
The Atheist
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Jul 3, 2006
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A few years back we had "Mad Vlad" who wanted to shoot all Jews with an "atomic gun". Fortunately, his insane nationalist party crumbled with Vlad and Yeltsin became President.

Now we have the good-looking, articulate, self-satisfied former FSB man Vladimir Putin, undisputed leader of Russia.Funny how his critics keep turning up dead.

Some things about Putin I like, some not so much. A couple of his put-downs of Dubbya a few months back were classics and I was prepared to let him have some leeway as a result, but this latest murder, on Putin's birthday, of his harshest critic, does bother me. I'm a little surprised no mention has been made of it and I thought I'd throw it out to see if anyone cares or has an opinion.
 
The Atheist said:
A few years back we had "Mad Vlad" who wanted to shoot all Jews with an "atomic gun". Fortunately, his insane nationalist party crumbled with Vlad and Yeltsin became President.

Now we have the good-looking, articulate, self-satisfied former FSB man Vladimir Putin, undisputed leader of Russia.Funny how his critics keep turning up dead.

Some things about Putin I like, some not so much. A couple of his put-downs of Dubbya a few months back were classics and I was prepared to let him have some leeway as a result, ...
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Ah, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Don't worry, I'm sure Putin will pay Bush a few more public insults to get back into your and other's good graces, thus clearly the way for a few more of his acts that, had Bush done far, far less than the same, you would [once again?] call for impeachment and/or otherthrow.

Clearly, that seems to do the trick. A diverse form of skepticism that. We should respect diversity. I'm sure Putin does.
 
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Rob Lister said:
Ah, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Don't worry, I'm sure Putin will pay Bush a few more public insults to get back into your and other's good graces, thus clearly the way for a few more of his acts that, had Bush done far, far less than the same, you would [once again?] call for impeachment and/or otherthrow.

Clearly, that seems to do the trick. A diverse form of skepticism that. We should respect diversity. I'm sure Putin does.
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What impeachment? What overthrow?

I'm 10,000 km from USA, I could give a flying f*** who runs the place. Anyone taking the piss out of Dubbya is great - though it can't be all that hard to do!

I just had the opinion that Putin might be a change for the better in Russia. Not as though the great bear doesn't need a bit of good stuff after the last couple of hundred years.

Pretty easy to tell which side your bread's buttered.
 
Yeah, I was pretty embarrassed reading about this yesterday.

Paul Klebnikov, the U.S.-born editor of Forbes Magazine in Russia, was shot dead in Moscow in July 2004. Klebnikov was at the time the 11th journalist to be murdered in a contract-style killing since Putin took office in 2000.
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I mean, I could understand bein uninformed about two or three contract murders of journalists oppossed to Putin, but the fact that I missed the first ten tells me that maybe I should be paying more attention to world news.

So how realistic is it that Putin, or someone in the Kremlin at least, is behind this? I know Putin was once something of a former KGB strong arm thug who did his utmost to restore domestic Russian power back to the Kremlin. And I've also read that some worry he may not relinquish the reigns of power when his time is up. So is plausible/probable that Russia slips into some kind of totalitarian state in the coming years? Or is that just "the sky is falling" paranoia? If there's anyone with greater knowledge than mine, please assist in educating me.

Or should we just start a thread on Israel and Palenstine instead?
 
The Atheist said:
Now we have the good-looking, articulate, self-satisfied former FSB man Vladimir Putin, undisputed leader of Russia.Funny how his critics keep turning up dead.
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This morning, the local conservative radio talk show guys told me how the liberal mainstream media was giving this story a pass and will never talk about it.

The really funny part is that I heard the story first on NPR.
 
senorpogo said:
Yeah, I was pretty embarrassed reading about this yesterday.

I mean, I could understand bein uninformed about two or three contract murders of journalists oppossed to Putin, but the fact that I missed the first ten tells me that maybe I should be paying more attention to world news.

So how realistic is it that Putin, or someone in the Kremlin at least, is behind this? I know Putin was once something of a former KGB strong arm thug who did his utmost to restore domestic Russian power back to the Kremlin. And I've also read that some worry he may not relinquish the reigns of power when his time is up. So is plausible/probable that Russia slips into some kind of totalitarian state in the coming years? Or is that just "the sky is falling" paranoia? If there's anyone with greater knowledge than mine, please assist in educating me.

Or should we just start a thread on Israel and Palenstine instead?
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My point exactly - if this thread had started with a Middle-Eastern tone, it would now be 110 pages long - nobody cares about Russia any more, which is interesting after a "Cold War" of 45-odd years. Maybe people just think the bear's dead, never to ressurrect.

Your points about Putin are bang on - he's a KGB/FSB thug who has lots of friends in strange places. Under his rule/sponsorship, guys like Roman Abramovich have managed to amass enormous fortunes and the "Russian mafia" has become the new KGB.

One of those areas where a real crystal-ball gazer would be helpful. Given that Putin has re-commenced spending on the Russian military and is trying very hard to get Georgia, Lithuania and Ukraine re-assimilated into Russia, it'd be fascinating to think where Russia might be in ten years' time.

Think about a hypothetical scenario. USA's economy is not in good shape and Iraq is going to bleed it for several years yet, by the looks of the current situation, so where is the US going to be financially and militarily in ten years?

I just find it particularly interesting that very few people seem to notice or care that this is going on.
 
The Atheist said:
Maybe people just think the bear's dead, never to ressurrect.
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The bear IS dead (if you have any doubts, just look at their demographic implosion). The real question is, what kind of stink will its rotting carcass make, and which buzzards are going to come feed on it?
 
The Atheist said:
I just find it particularly interesting that very few people seem to notice or care that this is going on.
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I find China a far more disturbing problem for US political long term interests than Russia, with whom US should be working toward a better relationship, not moving away from.

DR
 
Ziggurat said:
The bear IS dead (if you have any doubts, just look at their demographic implosion). The real question is, what kind of stink will its rotting carcass make, and which buzzards are going to come feed on it?
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From what I understand, the Russian Mafia has near total control. Based on the gangland-style killings, I can't dispute this.
 
Tricky said:
From what I understand, the Russian Mafia has near total control. Based on the gangland-style killings, I can't dispute this.
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Russia has been described by some as the world's biggest third world nation, thanks to its current power structure.

Nigeria, but colder? :confused:

DR
 
The Atheist said:
Now we have the good-looking, articulate, self-satisfied former FSB man Vladimir Putin, undisputed leader of Russia.Funny how his critics keep turning up dead.
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A few do.A few end up in prison. The rest are careful

Some things about Putin I like, some not so much.
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Which is odd since Putin is consitant.

A couple of his put-downs of Dubbya a few months back were classics and I was prepared to let him have some leeway as a result,
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As a general rule giving a cold calculateing bastard like Putin leeway of any type is a bad move.

but this latest murder, on Putin's birthday, of his harshest critic, does bother me.
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There are other suspects (mostly people involved in chechen politics).

I'm a little surprised no mention has been made of it and I thought I'd throw it out to see if anyone cares or has an opinion.
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On what? The killing? Surely that should be fairly obvious.

Putin? Smart, not nice but has done quite a good job of starting to pull Russia out of the Yeltsin chaos.
 
Darth Rotor said:
Russia has been described by some as the world's biggest third world nation, thanks to its current power structure.

Nigeria, but colder? :confused:

DR
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Doesn't have the religious issues. Russsia is unique. Half mess half order.
 
Ziggurat said:
The bear IS dead (if you have any doubts, just look at their demographic implosion). The real question is, what kind of stink will its rotting carcass make, and which buzzards are going to come feed on it?
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What makes you say that? The amount of money floating around in the wrong hands would suggest otherwise.
 
Darth Rotor said:
Russia has been described by some as the world's biggest third world nation, thanks to its current power structure.

Nigeria, but colder? :confused:

DR
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I think a cold Nigeria isn't too far off the mark, given the massive oil reserves both countries hold.
 
geni said:
Doesn't have the religious issues. Russsia is unique. Half mess half order.
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"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest." Winston Churchill, October 1945.

Still applies - I don't think many non-Russians have any idea what's really going on.
 
Darth Rotor said:
I find China a far more disturbing problem for US political long term interests than Russia, with whom US should be working toward a better relationship, not moving away from.
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No worries. China and NZ are best buddies - we are the country of "Three Firsts" with China - so all you'll need to do is be our friend and China will be yours!
 
Vladimir Putin, madman, genius, or both?

mad? No

genius? No

mad genius? No


he seems pretty rational, pretty intelligent and pretty unsavory.....
 
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