Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

[alexg]

Maybe you meant the famous story of the two guys who made it down a stairwell from above the fire? They had to leave a stairwell at one point and got blocked by a plie of drywall which they got round OK to get out.

And if your concrete core (ETA 17 feet, reenforced, compare to Pentagon for reference) was still in place before the collapse then why did almost all the stairwells get destroyed by the planes cutting right through them. No stairwells made it in the North tower and only one made it in the South because the plane cut accross a corner instead of going straight accross.

 

[Oliver]

Concrete ... i see concreeeete .... Muhawawawaw

 

[Oliver]

 

[Christophera]

Maybe you meant the famous story of the two guys who made it down a stairwell from above the fire? They had to leave a stairwell at one point and got blocked by a plie of drywall which they got round OK to get out.

And if your concrete core (ETA 17 feet, reenforced, compare to Pentagon for reference) was still in place before the collapse then why did almost all the stairwells get destroyed by the planes cutting right through them. No stairwells made it in the North tower and only one made it in the South because the plane cut across a corner instead of going straight accross.

There were 2 squeegee stories and that was one of them.

I do not think we can be sure of the total destruction of the eastern stairway in WTC 1. The below animated .gif is pretty accurate as far as entry angle and position. The left wingtip is shown near the mentioned stairwell but given a concrete core it is doubtful that the wingtip actually got through the core wall. Other ancillary damages could have punctured the drywall separating it from the elevators and allowed smoke from the large fuel explosion to enter making the stairwell impassable.

If I remember correctly a few people in the building tried to go up one damaged staircase but were driven back by smoke before getting near the impact floors.

WTC 1 animated gif of the impact.

The right engine of flight 11 went clean through the concrete core walls to bounce off the inside of the perimeter walls on the far side, but the left was stopped inside, probably because it hit interior concrete walls that supported the hallways.

A little known factor is that the left engine of the flight 175 actually punctured the concrete core walls and tried to exit the perimeter wall of WTC 2 and is seen as a large puff of concrete dust and debris a floor or 2 below the impact floor on the eastern face of the building near the north corner. I don't have that image unfortunately. Someone posted it at Let's Roll calling it a missile and I debunked that notion with the below animated gif and simple analysis of trajectory which matched perfectly the position of the puff of debri.

WTC 2 animated gif of the impact.

 

[Christophera]

*lol* You don´t know him - i bet he will see nothing else but concrete cores on the image...

WRONG!

I only see concrete when there is concrete to be seen. One thing for sure. I never see any of the supposed 47 steel core columns because they did not exist.

The concrete core is well documented by raw images of the demolition.

http://algoxy.com/conc/core.html

And near free fall as well as total pulverization are explained here.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

Also explained there in a rational and comprehensive, consistent fashion are;

The backwards fall sequence of the towers

The fact that the tops of the towers fell the wrong directions for the sides impacted

Flight 93's logical role

 

[tsig]

Concrete on the mind

WRONG!

I only see concrete when there is concrete to be seen. One thing for sure. I never see any of the supposed 47 steel core columns because they did not exist.

The concrete core is well documented by raw images of the demolition.

http://algoxy.com/conc/core.html

And near free fall as well as total pulverization are explained here.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

Also explained there in a rational and comprehensive, consistent fashion are;

The backwards fall sequence of the towers

The fact that the tops of the towers fell the wrong directions for the sides impacted

Flight 93's logical role

I see concrete lots of concrete I see lots and lots of concrete.

Cris is right and the whole world is wrong.


From where the sun sets in the sky I will post no more in this thread.

 

[alexg]

There were 2 squeegee stories and that was one of them.

I do not think we can be sure of the total destruction of the eastern stairway in WTC 1. The below animated .gif is pretty accurate as far as entry angle and position. The left wingtip is shown near the mentioned stairwell but given a concrete core it is doubtful that the wingtip actually got through the core wall. Other ancillary damages could have punctured the drywall separating it from the elevators and allowed smoke from the large fuel explosion to enter making the stairwell impassable.

If I remember correctly a few people in the building tried to go up one damaged staircase but were driven back by smoke before getting near the impact floors.

WTC 1 animated gif of the impact.

The right engine of flight 11 went clean through the concrete core walls to bounce off the inside of the perimeter walls on the far side, but the left was stopped inside, probably because it hit interior concrete walls that supported the hallways.

A little known factor is that the left engine of the flight 175 actually punctured the concrete core walls and tried to exit the perimeter wall of WTC 2 and is seen as a large puff of concrete dust and debris a floor or 2 below the impact floor on the eastern face of the building near the north corner. I don't have that image unfortunately. Someone posted it at Let's Roll calling it a missile and I debunked that notion with the below animated gif and simple analysis of trajectory which matched perfectly the position of the puff of debri.

WTC 2 animated gif of the impact.

No way, no way even the engines are going through 17 feet of re. concrete. I7 feet! Re-enforced? You'd prolly need a MOAB or a nuke! 17 feet of re-enforced concrtete.

And how could you even accpet those animations which show all kinds of airplane parts going through your core? A core BTW which is not even in those animations. Laughable, all of it.

 

[Blue Mountain]

Elevators in the WTC core

In response to questions about how a worker was able to escape from an jammed elevator by chipping through drywall with a squeegee, I've attached to this post the plan of the 95th floor of WTC-1. It's from the FEMA report, and I've added to it (in blue) where Christophera's concrete core would have been, had it existed.

I see 13 elevators in the drawing: number 50 marked in purple, numbers 89-92 marked in yellow and numbers 93-98 marked in blue. Note that all the elevators are within the core but none of them are adjacent to the (non-existant) concrete wall.

I can draw two conclusions from this:
1. The story of the worker escaping from the elevator by chipping through drywall does not invalidate the idea of a concrete core.

2. Christophera has done no research at all into this issue, otherwise he would not have made the statement:

The elevator shafts had at least 2 walls that were drywall, most had 3 or 4.

Meaning a squeegee will get you out if you go the right direction in the right elevator shaft. There was an account of a effort to cut through the drywall that met with concrete after getting through drywall. It was in a stairway tho.

It appears all the elevators had drywall front and back.

Christophera: Do you have a source for the "second" story of a worker trying to chip through drywall in a stairwell (with a squeegee, no less) and encountering concrete?

 

[uruk]

Those are elevator guide rails or elevator landing support. Note they are not cut square and level as were the interior box columns on the left.

The columns cut level

Hey, Chris, These are elevator rails.:
http://www.rcgov.com/police/Construction/images/040326_elevator_rails_jpg.jpg

http://www.suffolk.edu/sawlib/const...third-floor-elevator-shaft-march-16-2006.html

http://www.suffolk.edu/sawlib/const...econd-floor-elevator-track-march-23-2006.html

http://chinahaixun.en.alibaba.com/product/0/50589251/Elevator_Guide_Rails/showimg.html

http://www.dir.ca.gov/Images/t8img/3030-1.gif

Take note that none bear any resenblance in shape or size to these.
But then Chris is into construction. This would be something that he should know.:

 

[uruk]

The supposed steel core columns were of the strongest elements of the towers. They would not have been torn away. Look at the interior box columns, the ONLY columns that were full length structural elements.

columns cut level

That's right, Steel is indestructable. Nothing on earth can bend or break steel. This is coming from a contractor that thinks that elevator rails are made from 32 inch steel columns.

 

[Belz...]

I know exactly what that block of gray material with roundede corners is.

You shouldn't go around telling people what they think, chris. It's rude.

It is the core wall at its base.

I know it's the base of the core. I'm saying you can't see concrete conclusively in that picture.

YOU are the one that thinks there were steel core columns in the core. Well, ......... we don't see those.

Yes we do.

I say the gray block is concrete, YOU say not. I ask you a reasonable question, "If it is not concrete what is it?" and you try to confuse the situation as if I do not know what it is.

You're simply arguing from ignorance, now. I called you on the fact that there's no way to identify concrete in that picture, and now you're doing exactly what fundies do: if you can't tell me what this is, it HAS to be God!

(replace God with concrete, in case you didn't get that)

EVASION.

Sorry, I use true strike. Your puny +2 to AC is insignificant.

The picture reveals many things, you just do not want to see them.

You shouldn't go around telling people what they want, chris. It's rude.

There was NO un reinforced concrete in the skyscraper, even you should know that.

You're the one who claimed that the first few floors didn't have 6" rebar.

So, you think the tower had 6 inch diameter cable in it? Bwahhhhhaaaaaa.

I never said it was 6 inches, you did.

No, steel does not bend like that. Steel is not used like that when it is in that situation.

Steel doesn't bend ? And concrete DOES ?

True, homer doesn't care but WRONG, I do know what the different building material look like as they come apart.

Oh, no you don't.

All he has actually done recently is over compressed an image to fit it into this boards restrictive image posting criteria.

What he also did and that you may have missed, is enhance the brightness so as to reveal your own obfuscation: namely, that there is no concrete to be seen in that image.

We don't see any floors either.

Not complete floors, you dope. But if we DID see pieces of concrete lying about the core it could very we be FROM a collapsed floor.

All 47 torn away? And the interior box columns stay.

You're the only one here who doesn't see the support columns, chris. So, no, not all 47 were torn away.

I was simply saying, as I'm certain you know, that steel columns COULD be torn away. Aren't you paying attention ? Or are you still evading ?

 

[Belz...]

Belz said it well Oliver, describing your picture.

Oh, now you add lying to your repertoire. You know full well that my comments were directed at your 90% JPEG compression image. You can clearly see in Oliver's picture that there is NO concrete. Unless you care to identify the concrete in his picture.

The biggest problem for your group is that the steel core columns you say existed NEVER show up at elevation in the core area.

Even if we didn't see any support columns, which we do, it wouldn't make you right. That's the part of the investigation process you don't understand.

We do see what can only be rebar.

Nuh-huh. Rebar couldn't possibly survive an explosive force that pulverizes concrete. That's part of the problem with YOUR group.

And stop posting your debunked pictures. Deal with ours, if you please.

 

[alexg]

In response to questions about how a worker was able to escape from an jammed elevator by chipping through drywall with a squeegee, I've attached to this post the plan of the 95th floor of WTC-1. It's from the FEMA report, and I've added to it (in blue) where Christophera's concrete core would have been, had it existed.

I see 13 elevators in the drawing: number 50 marked in purple, numbers 89-92 marked in yellow and numbers 93-98 marked in blue. Note that all the elevators are within the core but none of them are adjacent to the (non-existant) concrete wall.

I can draw two conclusions from this:
1. The story of the worker escaping from the elevator by chipping through drywall does not invalidate the idea of a concrete core.

2. Christophera has done no research at all into this issue, otherwise he would not have made the statement:

It appears all the elevators had drywall front and back.

Christophera: Do you have a source for the "second" story of a worker trying to chip through drywall in a stairwell (with a squeegee, no less) and encountering concrete?

It seems I made a naive and incorrect assumption about the orientation of the elevator doors to the core walls.

 

[Christophera]

I see concrete lots of concrete I see lots and lots of concrete.

Cris is right and the whole world is wrong.


From where the sun sets in the sky I will post no more in this thread.

I wonder what ever happened to critical thinking. I mean no steel core columns are visible in any of the demo images and this photo here shows and end view of a concrete wall holding up the spire.

 

[Oliver]

Come on, Chris - it´s a dead end and everyone knows that - even you. So what goal has this thread? Is it a bet or something?

 

[Christophera]

Hey, Chris, These are elevator rails.:
http://www.rcgov.com/police/Construction/images/040326_elevator_rails_jpg.jpg

http://www.suffolk.edu/sawlib/const...third-floor-elevator-shaft-march-16-2006.html

http://www.suffolk.edu/sawlib/const...econd-floor-elevator-track-march-23-2006.html

http://chinahaixun.en.alibaba.com/product/0/50589251/Elevator_Guide_Rails/showimg.html

http://www.dir.ca.gov/Images/t8img/3030-1.gif

Take note that none bear any resenblance in shape or size to these.
But then Chris is into construction. This would be something that he should know.:

Consider that my statement of "or" frieght elevator landing support and guide rail supports covers the issue.

Seeing as you still have not come up with ONE image of the supposed 47, 1,300 foot steel core columns at elevation from the demo images, your issue is tiny.

What is this if it is not the concrete core?

 

[Christophera]

Come on, Chris - it´s a dead end and everyone knows that - even you. So what goal has this thread? Is it a bet or something?

No, it is the principles of our Constitution and the future of our nation. Recall, due process was deprived in 3,000 capitol crimes in NYC following 9-11.


Seeing as the truth of 9-11 is that important, you should be able to come up with at least one image of a steel core column inside the core area at some elevation.

Or even explain what this is if it is not the concrete core core

 

[mortimer]

Consider that my statement of "or" frieght elevator landing support and guide rail supports covers the issue.

Seeing as you still have not come up with ONE image of the supposed 47, 1,300 foot steel core columns at elevation from the demo images, your issue is tiny.

What is this if it is not the concrete core?

Chris, at what elevation do you need to see core columns during the collapse to convince you?

 

[Oliver]

No, it is the principles of our Constitution and the future of our nation. Recall, due process was deprived in 3,000 capitol crimes in NYC following 9-11.


Seeing as the truth of 9-11 is that important, you should be able to come up with at least one image of a steel core column inside the core area at some elevation.

Or even explain what this is if it is not the concrete core core

Yes Chris, i see the concrete core, too. But beside that - that´s all you have. No juridical evidence at all. So please stop spamming the board, will you?

 

[Bell]

I wonder what ever happened to critical thinking. I mean no steel core columns are visible in any of the demo images and this photo here shows and end view of a concrete wall holding up the spire.

Bolding mine.

Funny you should say that. You lack the ability to critical thinking in every department. Your proof consists of grainy pictures and a documentary seen 15 years ago, which has since been taken away by the NWO. Yeah, critical thinking is a bitch.