The lighter side of insanity

Gravy

Downsitting Citizen
Gravy
Joined
Mar 27, 2006
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17,078
I just found out that one of the dumber of the people who goes to GZ on Saturdays has a blog about his experiences. http://fredstruth.blogspot.com

My comments in brackets.
August 5
As the day goes on the anti-9/11 group 911myths.com [Hey, Mike, you have a group – and it's anti-9/11!] shows up and attacks us from all sides, [Yes, we attacked from all one side, since they had their backs to a wall.] trying to tack up their signs over top of ours on the construction companys wall, which is illegal. [Gravy says: uh, no, we put our signs above theirs, not over them, as Abby's video shows.] So we just step in front of them to keep them from getting at out posters. [Also known as denying us the same Constitutional rights they were exercising. Moments before, one of them grabbed a handful of literature from us and tore it up. Later, when we weren't looking, some of our signs were thrown into a construction area.] I get stuck with one of the tacks in my shoulder and the guy threatens me. [The threat was "If you leap in front of me again while I'm holding a thumbtack through this sign, you're likely to get stuck again."] I tell him that I am diabetic and that if he sticks me with that tack again, were going to court. [Apparently he sprang an insulin leak.] He backs off and shuts up. [That is: "He put the signs up and we moved ours out of embarrassment."] They think they can intimidate but they are easily fooled. [We are. Just hold something shiny in front of us.] So we kept blocking them [There's that pesky Constitution again!] but Ryan, one of the younger guys says to me, Let them go. With the film crew here, it just draws attention to them.

August 19
I tell you, it gets better every time I go to GZ. I love it. It is so much fun when you tell somebody about the TRUTH and they turn their head and they say, "I didn't know that."

...Plus we had a lawyer from the Lawyers Guild watching over the situation for us. She came into play as soon as the opposition started her attacks. [Go, Abby!] What the lawyer said or did I personally do not know [That's because the lawyer didn't say or do anything.] but I went toe to toe with both of them for a while but when you talk to concrete long enough, you stop [Abby, were you there with Christophera?]
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I can tell you this: when we confront his b.s., he really does not like it. The last time I sternly corrected him in front of an audience, he actually stopped his presentation, bowed his head, and slinked away. It's been years since I've seen someone slink.

Here's a classic Fred moment, which I made an audio recording of. Fred was trying to counter the evidence I presented to some onlookers by saying that evidence from the government can't be trusted.

Man in crowd: "What's your name, sir?"

"My name is Fred Weber."

"Because someone told you that's your name? I say your name's not Fred."

"I have proof." Fred pulls out his wallet and Social Security card.

Me: "That evidence is fake! Don't look at that evidence!"

Guy: "Someone made that up!"

Fred: "No, they didn't. It's from the Federal Government!"

That's verbatim. Fred is 54 years old.

ETA: Gawd, I just read his September 11 entry, where he turns into a human Slushy. Oh, and Fred is an ex-FDNY dispatcher. I'll be chatting with him about that the next time I see him.

ETA: Oh, mama. I may look like DeNiro, but this guy may be a Travis Bickle in the making.

September 10: From problems with Loose Change to problems with...Loose Change!

I was in dire need most the day for change. I needed ones a lot and then fives and tens as most people came in from the ATM with $20 for a $12 donation and fives and ones went fast. So then I would ask for 2 ones and give them a ten back so then the tens would go. So it was a challenge to balance out the change. By the end of the night it basically worked out. I had to charge different prices at times to keep that change balance but it worked out. There was one other significant problem that raised its rather ugly head. One of the other Loose Change gentlemen [Korey Rowe] approached me while I was selling tickets. He patiently allowed me to continue to sell tickets. I knew who he was as I recognize him from his pictures and that he had spoken at the church Friday night. He also is one of my friends on my myspace page. After I was done selling tickets, he says to me without mentioning names, "Les Jamieson told me I can have 2 tickets and I'm not paying for them" in a tone that was quite indignant and surly. Now for a kid in his early 20s talking to a man in his mid 50s…if I would have talked like that to my father, he would have hauled off and …have been put in jail if it would have been today. Because that was the way things were in those days. I know, I know, it's not then but like I said before, these young gentlemen need to step back and remember where they were a few years back. Mired in a small hick town, delivering pizzas, doing tours in Iraq and doing what? So they made a big splash in the movement with a video and now they're big shots but you don't talk to people, especially older people like they're nothing. I may only be starting out in the movement but I have just as much right to be treated like a human being than anybody else. The next time, and I really hope there is no next time, he gets dressed down a few pegs.
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I don't think Fred really understands how he is upsetting people. I started reading his blog but give up when I got to this.

An ex-firefighter started in on one of us and then on me. I told him that I was there for him today. I told him about the flowers and the sign that I had tied to the fence. I told him that I was an ex-fire dispatcher for the FDNY in New York. But he continued to scream and yell at us. He called us vile names and cursed at us. At one point he even said that he wished that we were in the towers when they collapsed.
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Gravy said:
No, that's Spittle-Spewin' Fishing Hat Man. I don't know his name.
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Gravy, if you can still edit your comments [in brackets], could you change change the font to italics, or a different color?

Signed,

Old guy with poor eyesight.
 
Mr. Skinny said:
Gravy, if you can still edit your comments [in brackets], could you change change the font to italics, or a different color?

Signed,

Old guy with poor eyesight.
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You got it, gramps.
 
On a serious note, it's impossible not to feel sorry for this guy after reading his blog. He just isn't bright, and being a part of this "movement" seems to be a big part of a small life. My problem is that he likes to make himself very prominent at Ground Zero, standing in front of their big laminated signs and lecturing to the public. I am not going to give him any leeway when he gives false information, but it's hard not to come across as a bully when confronting someone this simple. He's also a very defensive person, and seems to have a bit of a persecution complex.

Any advice on how to deal with someone like this will be welcome.
 
I would use positive comments to win him over to you on a certain level, then try to make him "see the light".

Fred: 9/11 was an "Inside Job".

Gravy: Look Fred, I understand your motives. You feel you are doing the right thing for your fellow americans, and I can relate. I am trying to do that as well. Rather than me point out where you are wrong, why don't you show me the proof that it was an "inside job".

Then in a very benign fashion, try to show him where he is wrong.

TAM
 
Gravy said:
On a serious note, it's impossible not to feel sorry for this guy after reading his blog. He just isn't bright, and being a part of this "movement" seems to be a big part of a small life. My problem is that he likes to make himself very prominent at Ground Zero, standing in front of their big laminated signs and lecturing to the public. I am not going to give him any leeway when he gives false information, but it's hard not to come across as a bully when confronting someone this simple. He's also a very defensive person, and seems to have a bit of a persecution complex.

Any advice on how to deal with someone like this will be welcome.
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Treat him with respect.

Treat him with kindness.

Make him understand he is being used.
 
T.A.M. said:
I would use positive comments to win him over to you on a certain level, then try to make him "see the light".

Fred: 9/11 was an "Inside Job".

Gravy: Look Fred, I understand your motives. You feel you are doing the right thing for your fellow americans, and I can relate. I am trying to do that as well. Rather than me point out where you are wrong, why don't you show me the proof that it was an "inside job".

Then in a very benign fashion, try to show him where he is wrong.

TAM
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That's good advice, T.A.M., and I'll relay it to Abby :D. (I'm realizing that I'm just too big and mean-looking to be viewed as benign.)
 
You do not look big, mean, or imposing to me. Now Jon Gold, he is a little mean looking. Abby however, with her sense of humor and "girl next door" good looks could definitely win him over.

TAM
 
T.A.M. said:
You do not look big, mean, or imposing to me. Now Jon Gold, he is a little mean looking. Abby however, with her sense of humor and "girl next door" good looks could definitely win him over.

TAM
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I was in the market selecting avocados the other day, and a woman asked me if I was okay. Apparently I looked like I was going to kill the fruit, not purchase it. I had no idea that I was wearing that expression. At Ground Zero, I've established a precedent of going right for the throat, so to speak. I'm sure that if I started being Mr. Nice Guy, they'd be even more reluctant to listen. Perhaps the good cop/bad cop approach is best.
 
Gravy said:
I was in the market selecting avocados the other day, and a woman asked me if I was okay. Apparently I looked like I was going to kill the fruit, not purchase it. I had no idea that I was wearing that expression. At Ground Zero, I've established a precedent of going right for the throat, so to speak. I'm sure that if I started being Mr. Nice Guy, they'd be even more reluctant to listen. Perhaps the good cop/bad cop approach is best.
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Better watch what you say, or you'll start something. I mean, now you're gonna have all the guys having visions of Abby in a police uniform.

TAM:D
 
TheGrunion said:
Treat him with respect.

Treat him with kindness.

Make him understand he is being used.
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This makes a lot of sense. I mean, clearly he's a little disgruntled over tickets being demanded by some kid, obviously he doesn't like being pushed around.
 
Gravy said:
On a serious note, it's impossible not to feel sorry for this guy after reading his blog. He just isn't bright, and being a part of this "movement" seems to be a big part of a small life. My problem is that he likes to make himself very prominent at Ground Zero, standing in front of their big laminated signs and lecturing to the public. I am not going to give him any leeway when he gives false information, but it's hard not to come across as a bully when confronting someone this simple. He's also a very defensive person, and seems to have a bit of a persecution complex.

Any advice on how to deal with someone like this will be welcome.
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Spent him a drink in a bar, maybe you tell him that you once also believed in his theories to open the door to his world. Tell him that "9/11" is hard to understand for many people and try to talk to him in a kind of talking and listening to a "child" to understand what he deeply thinks/feels about 9/11.

Facts doesn´t help him to understand what you´re trying to explain, Gravy. I´m pretty sure he doesn´t even know the "facts" that he´s telling the people. You may proof this by asking "why" do you believe in this or that. I don´t know him but your description reminds me to a very warm-hearted person in my neighborhood.

Oliver
 
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She came into play as soon as the opposition started her attacks.
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For crying in the beer. Attacks? I had little flyers that I had made. That was it. Oh, and I ran around pantsing all of them. Maybe that counts.


This man is a child. He has friends and a purpose in life now, and he's excited about it. However, to make an extreme analogy: If a man decided to make new friends by becoming a neo-nazi, how much pity do we afford him?

Perhaps the good cop/bad cop approach is best.
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I think we've already been doing that. Although, I don't know how much of that is by My choice. The first few weeks, often, Gravy'd ask them a question or make a statement and they'd respond to me. And I'd think, "Dang it! Why aren't you as afraid of me!"

I was in the market selecting avocados the other day, and a woman asked me if I was okay.
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Stupid alligator pears.
 
Poor ol' Fred.

If you have a blog, and nobody comments, do you really have a blog? (even if its not in the forest?)
 
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