Peanut gallery: The WTC 1,2,7 collapsed from impact damage and fires

[Horatius]

Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce, in this corner, wearing villainous black, TruthSeeker1234.

And in this corner, wearing a marmalade pantsuit, any JREF member!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2wyhgP0FVo
(have computer volume on)

Actaully, I think we're more like these two. So long waiting for a good cat-vs-lizard fight, we get bored and start playing with each other.

 

[jhunter1163]

Here's my contribution in the CT-lyrics vein.

(tune of Elton John's "Empty Garden"

What happened here?
As the New York sunset disappears
I see an empty skyline
Where the twin towers were

Who did this?
They say it was Bin Laden, yeah, but I think not
Never mind their tears, think up a good plot
I'll blame the CIA
It's funny how those buildings... collapsed.. so damn straight

And what's it for
I'll make a DVD and get on Channel 4
I sell this crap out on the sidewalk
No one looks no more

Who did this?
They say it was Bin Laden, yeah, but I think not
Never mind their tears, think up a good plot
And they'll be so amazed
I'll dazzle them with science
And quotes from witnesses
That I'll just rephrase

(chorus)

And I've been asking
But no one answers
And I've been asking
Was there a plane?
And I've been calling
Oh, hey, hey Dylan
Can you come out to play?

And through their tears
The Jersey Girls say that they've been gagged for years
But Gravy says that that's all nonsense
If only he was here

Who did this?
They say it was Bin Laden but I think not
Never mind their tears, think up a good plot
And now I'm on my way
And with every stop I call
And plug... and plug Loose Change

(chorus)

And I've been asking
But no one answers
And I've been asking
Was there a plane?
And I've been calling
Oh, hey, hey Dylan
Can't you come out to play?

And I've been asking
But no one answers
And I've been asking
Was there a plane?
And I've been calling
Oh, hey, hey Dylan
Can't you come out?
Can't you come out to play?
Dylan?
Can't you come out to play from your little trailer?
Dylan?
Can't you come out to play from your little trailer?

(repeat and fade)

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Well it's one, two, three, what are we fighting for...
Don't ask me I don't give a damn...

How about this one ....

Amerika


Let us be Loosers we’ll marry our theories together

I’ve got some wild ideas here in my bag

So we bought a pack of Killtown’s bull and Alex Jone’s lies
And walked off to look for Amerika

Dylan, I said as we boarded a Greyhound in Pittsburgh
NIST report seems like a dream to me now
It took me four days to dream up alternatives
I’ve gone to look for Amerika

Laughing on the bus
Making fun of the victims
He said the man in the gabardine suit was a spy
I said be careful, his bowtie is really a camera

Toss me a doobie, man, I think there’s one in my raincoat
We smoked the last one an hour ago
So I looked at the scenery, he read his comic book
And we soon came up with conspiracy!

Dylan, I’m lost, I said though I knew he was sleeping
I’m empty and aching and I don’t know why
Counting the crap for the new Loose Change website

We’ve all gone to look for Amerika
All gone to look for Amerika
All gone to look for Amerika.



ETA: not sure why the format on the first few lines is messed up, and why this note is in italics???

 

[tsig]

6) Most Shameless Self-Promotion in a Project Intended To Honor The Victims of 9/11

7) Mined Quote Altered Most From Its Original Meaning

In category #6 I nominate BS549 and Dylan A. et al.

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

No one has accepted the challenge as yet. Anyone interested in accepting the challenge and presenting a coherent positive case for the proposition should email me and work out the details. Though a large project, I am eager to get started and the money is waiting. It will be money well spent on my part.

Triterope is thusfar the only one who appears serious, and he and I have begun an email dialog to answer each others questions and concerns. Thus far, no deal has been reached with him, and all are still invited to inquire.

You must be willing and able to, in your own words, write an essay that puts forth the positive case that impact damage and fires caused the 9/11 building disasters. It should be at least 10-20 pages, I would think.

questioning911@yahoo.com

 

[tsig]

No one has accepted the challenge as yet. Anyone interested in accepting the challenge and presenting a coherent positive case for the proposition should email me and work out the details. Though a large project, I am eager to get started and the money is waiting. It will be money well spent on my part.

Triterope is thusfar the only one who appears serious, and he and I have begun an email dialog to answer each others questions and concerns. Thus far, no deal has been reached with him, and all are still invited to inquire.

You must be willing and able to, in your own words, write an essay that puts forth the positive case that impact damage and fires caused the 9/11 building disasters. It should be at least 10-20 pages, I would think.

questioning911@yahoo.com

Still trying to make blood into ink are we?

Can you write anything in your own words or will you forever parrot your leaders?

 

[Stellafane]

No one has accepted the challenge as yet...

You are a bald-faced liar. I accepted your challenge, you changed it to some book writing exercise. Do you think we're all too stupid to remember this? Maybe that kind of revisionist crap flies among your socially arrested, mentally challenged twoofer crowd, but it sure doesn't work here.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You are a lying coward.

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

Now now, no need for harsh words. I will clarify the offer. Give me a day and I will begin a new thread with the challenge detailed so that everyone can see the parameters.

I have not changed anything, in my mind the positive case would always need to be at least 10-20 pages. I did not illucidate that out however. I should have spent more time clarifying the offer to begin with. The offer is reasonable, I will clarify it, and all including Stellafane are free to accept the challenge.

The idea is to begin with the positive case spelled out. All your attempts to switch this to the opposite debate will not succeed. This is a debate about the official theory, not about alternative theories.

Your attempts to take my money without doing the work will also not succeed. Make no mistake, this will require effort. Any worthy challenge does. People who do not feel competent to discuss the matter in their own words are not qualified.

 

[Gravy]

Now now, no need for harsh words. I will clarify the offer. Give me a day and I will begin a new thread

Please don't do that. You've spread your rudeness and ignorance all over this forum. Try to limit your idiotic "challenge" to the existing threads. I know it's hard, but try.

 

[Gravy]

People who do not feel competent to discuss the matter in their own words are not qualified.

So who will be debating your side of the issue? I think it's only fair that the opponents know that.

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

Gravy, for as much time as you've spent loudmouthing me, you could've instead written up the positive case, taken my money, and have the peanut gallery cheering you on. As it is, I suspect a lot of the more technically challenged JREFers are currently scratching their heads wondering, "Why are Mackey and Gravy so afraid to debate this guy?"

 

[Horatius]

Now now, no need for harsh words. I will clarify the offer. Give me a day and I will begin a new thread with the challenge detailed so that everyone can see the parameters.

Isn't that what you already did? And since you already said Arkan's rules were acceptable, what more details do you need? Just accept the offers of any of the people who've already agreed to the debate and get on with it!



Not to mention a few other honest offers.....

 

[Gravy]

Gravy, for as much time as you've spent loudmouthing me, you could've instead written up the positive case, taken my money, and have the peanut gallery cheering you on. As it is, I suspect a lot of the more technically challenged JREFers are currently scratching their heads wondering, "Why are Mackey and Gravy so afraid to debate this guy?"

Please refer to my challenge to you, which was to answer a simple question, one I've asked you several times. I said I would need an answer to the question in order to determine if you were worth debating. Your silence spoke volumes.

 

[Pythra]

Gravy, for as much time as you've spent loudmouthing me, you could've instead written up the positive case, taken my money, and have the peanut gallery cheering you on. As it is, I suspect a lot of the more technically challenged JREFers are currently scratching their heads wondering, "Why are Mackey and Gravy so afraid to debate this guy?"

Actually I suspect they are wondering, "Why has TS1234 has been posting and posturing on these forums for a full month without presenting a single shred of evidence to support his theory?"

Maybe it's because this is the most attention you have ever received in your life, and you can't stand the thought of it ending after a remotely conclusive 'debate'. You want to be on TV, you want to write a book, you want an honourable mention in the credits of Loose Change. You want Ctists everywhere to look upon you with admiration. "Look at TruthSeeker1234, wiping the floor with the JREFers. Look how they cower at his challenge!" This is what goes through your head as you construct your posts. Evidence? Who cares. This isn't about the truth or science. This is about being a hero.

Everyone, on your knees for Captain TruthSeeker! Hero of the internet!

 

[Z]

Isn't it obvious what he wants?

The clues are all there: he wants someone to put the NIST report into layman's terms (easy accessibility for the masses), and THEN he wants to be allowed the last say so he can try to twist everything and create strawmen and basically demonstrate his ignorance of all things architectual, chemical, and structural. He's offering payment for services rendered, and seeking retention rights to the produced material.

He's scheming to get someone to write half of a book, so he can earn some bucks.

Suggestion: he should simply be ignored by the membership, and possibly suspended by the moderators.

 

[Loss Leader]

As it is, I suspect a lot of the more technically challenged JREFers are currently scratching their heads wondering, "Why are Mackey and Gravy so afraid to debate this guy?"

Your suspicions are, once again, unfounded. As a board member with no technical background whatsoever, I do not believe either that Gravy or Mackey are afraid to debate you nor do I wonder why.

In fact, BS1234, your entire internal suspicion-meter seems to be utterly broken. You suspect far too much of far too many people far too often. I suggest you turn to someone with technical understanding of these internal issues for some much needed repairs. Such technicians are popularly called psychiatrists and they have a variety of curative measures that you may well need in bulk.

 

[R.Mackey]

As it is, I suspect a lot of the more technically challenged JREFers are currently scratching their heads wondering, "Why are Mackey and Gravy so afraid to debate this guy?"

Interesting hypothesis...

If there is a single JREF member, regardless of your personal technical proficiency, who is asking this question, please feel free to speak up or PM me. I'll be glad to clarify.

However, I give the readers here more credit, and suspect you're completely wrong (as usual) and there isn't a single one. But we shall see.

 

[milesalpha]

Gravy, for as much time as you've spent loudmouthing me, you could've instead written up the positive case, taken my money, and have the peanut gallery cheering you on. As it is, I suspect a lot of the more technically challenged JREFers are currently scratching their heads wondering, "Why are Mackey and Gravy so afraid to debate this guy?"

I certainly am a technically challenged lurker (don't really think of myself as a JREFer, I frequent/lurk/post in a lot of diverse forums, I will admit to great admiration for Randi and being a longtime reader of Skeptic). I am supposing this makes me qualified to answer your question.

It never once occured to me that Gravy or Mackey might be afraid. Having read the threads involving your debate "style", I rather think they concluded it is a complete waste of time. I have never really seen you offer a substantial argument in any thread. You rely on extremely weak documentary evidence and ignore the significant weight (and quality) of opposing evidence. Moreover, you also rely heavily on googled photographic evidence which I consider to be generally worthless unless combined with corroborating documentary evidence. You do not confront opposing evidence head on, instead offering the usual array of excuses or simply avoiding the thread.


There's your answer, I don't often post in these threads, other than with a little bit of humour, I am science-challenged after all. On the other hand, I am not history-challenged, so I have been in and moderated a number of debates in the field (including getting the **** kicked out of me in 1974, after arguing the pro-evolution side in a junior high debate...oh those Christians), so I do have a touch of experience there.

 

[Skibum]

If there is a single JREF member, regardless of your personal technical proficiency, who is asking this question, please feel free to speak up or PM me. I'll be glad to clarify.

Actually I was wondering what TS was afraid of. The man can't even answer simple questions posed to him. Must have learned a lot from Alex Jones.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Gravy, for as much time as you've spent loudmouthing me, you could've instead written up the positive case, taken my money, and have the peanut gallery cheering you on. As it is, I suspect a lot of the more technically challenged JREFers are currently scratching their heads wondering, "Why are Mackey and Gravy so afraid to debate this guy?"

Uh no...that's not what I was thinking.

Lisa Simpson--technically challenged skepchick