Penn & Teller barbecue the Bible

[stillthinkin]

They did kick quite a few of them.

I didnt know kicking was yet another form of argument!
Well i downloaded the video, but i have two small children climbing on me and wont get a chance to view it until they are asleep... or to type. Give me a couple hours.

 

[Tony]

I dont know. Do you mean to imply that a prerequisite for posting was to have actually viewed the video?

Absolutely not, I was curious. I've seen a Penn & Teller bible episode I don't remember them burning a Bible. I was just wondering if you had seen something I had missed.

 

[stillthinkin]

Alright, watched the video... there is one instance of bible kicking and some bible throwing, and there is a fireplace behind Michael Shermer (sp?), but no BBQ and no book burning, bible or otherwise. I have put it together - this is the Penn Jillette who referred to Mother ****ing Teresa, and said Paris Hilton was too moral a person to play her. Etc. Not interested.
Michael Shermer (sp?) was great.

 

[RandFan]

Alright, watched the video... there is one instance of bible kicking and some bible throwing, and there is a fireplace behind Michael Shermer (sp?), but no BBQ and no book burning, bible or otherwise. I have put it together - this is the Penn Jillette who referred to Mother ****ing Teresa, and said Paris Hilton was too moral a person to play her. Etc. Not interested.
Michael Shermer (sp?) was great.

How did you download the video? Just curious because the link doesn't take you to the video and I can no longer find it in youtube or google.

In any event, is there are problem with what Jillette said about Mother Teresa? I thought she was a great woman until I saw the show about her and Gandhi. I don't think much of her now. She did little for the people she worked with. I still like Ghandi but my opinion of him has changed somewhat.

As for Teresa I see litte inspiration. She seemed mostly to care about the spiritual rather than the secular which is fine except she was portrayed as a woman helping the poor and needy and I think most people understood that included secular needs like food, clothes, medicine, etc. It doesn't appear that there was much of that. On the contrary it seems that she was content for poor people to suffer.

Controversy and critics

"Do you teach the poor to endure their lot?" She replied: "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people."

If this is out of context please to provide it.

RandFan

 

[stillthinkin]

RandFan[/quote]

How did you download the video? Just curious because the link doesn't take you to the video and I can no longer find it in youtube or google.
RandFan

Apparently i am not allowed to post links yet... just lost my entire post learning that too... After a number of different attempts, I searched google on "penn teller bible" and downloaded it from an "exchristian" site

As for Teresa I see litte inspiration. She seemed mostly to care about the spiritual

I didnt see the show on Teresa. My personal perspective on her, and why I do not appreciate Penn's criticism of her is this: I volunteered with her "brothers" in downtown Los Angeles in 1981. We didnt preach about anything "spiritual", we handed out sandwiches and dressed wounds and cared for brain damage victims (one was a former university professor who had been hit by a bus, and had been living out of garbage cans when we came across him).
I know that when she was asked about doing other things to help people, she would say "please, you do that, I am doing what I think I am supposed to do"... it seemed to me that she didnt care much for "the theoretical economics of poverty" when there were people laying dying in the streets outside the convent where she lived. She didnt think theory or education were a bad thing, she just liked helping real people in need. I could go on, but it would be the wine talking (maybe it already is) Re. context, i guess this could be another thread if someone wants to pursue it?

 

[Tony]

I still like Ghandi but my opinion of him has changed somewhat.

What did you hear about Ghandi and how did your opinion change?

On the contrary it seems that she was content for poor people to suffer.

While living an opulent life herself. She was a charlatan who fooled the world (pretty much like every other religious figure in history).

 

[Huntster]

....Catholics can not even begin to imagine how boring a church service can be. A catholic ceremony has people in nifty costumes, swinging smoke thingies, candles, food and really short sermons.

Sometimes Catholic ceremonies are full of interesting things.

Daily Mass is the same, old thing. You really need to be into it to do daily mass.

But it must be noted that only Catholics do daily mass (at least among Christians; Muslims pray 5 times per day, en masse).

I remember attending my first catholic church service. I had just settled in for what I thought was going to be the sermon, a period of intense boredom for me from my Presbyterian church experience and all of a sudden the sermon is over. What? A three minute sermon? It can't be over already, but it was......

Three minutes?

Was it a good three minutes?

 

[RandFan]

I know that when she was asked about doing other things to help people, she would say "please, you do that, I am doing what I think I am supposed to do"... it seemed to me that she didnt care much for "the theoretical economics of poverty" when there were people laying dying in the streets outside the convent where she lived. She didnt think theory or education were a bad thing, she just liked helping real people in need. I could go on, but it would be the wine talking (maybe it already is) Re. context, i guess this could be another thread if someone wants to pursue it?

If Mother Theresa, in a significant fashion, helped feed and clothe and provide assistance including medicine to the poor then I would be willing to think differently of her. I appreciate your anecdote and I would guess there are others. However I would need more especially in light of the evidence provided by the show. I don't care much for the theoretical economics of poverty either. However I think you must feed and clothe people along with any spiritual assistance to warrant a humanitarian label (maybe that's just me). I think that if most people knew that her priorities were largely related to her beliefs about the salvation of poor people and not so much about their physical well being then I don't think she would be thought of so highly. I really don't.

Hey, she had the right to assist any way she thought appropriate. However I think it fraudulent and shameful to make people think you are giving food, shelter and medicine when it fact you are largely proselytizing (assuming that is what she did).

 

[Huntster]

....There are a variety of opinions about what Simon meant when he said "son of the living God". Some think that's a clear invocation of Jesus being...at least part of a binary, if not trinity. Others think it just means he's the most special human...ever!....

Simon Peter, at that point, probably knew of the virgin birth.

Without a doubt, the concept of the Trinity is one that took hundreds of years to realize. As Catholics, the understanding of the Immaculate Conception didn't come to full fruition until Lourdes, in the mid-1800s.

Like all else, religion (as well as spiritual development) evolves. It comes with time and reflection.

 

[RandFan]

Like all else, religion (as well as spiritual development) evolves. It comes with time and reflection.

Why?

The parsimonious answer is that it is being formulated as we go along.

 

[Huntster]

...I do find it odd that no one pointed out that this was a book burning? Are we ok with that practice now?

Book burning all depends on which book, and whose doing the burning.

It rarely achieves the desired effect.

 

[stillthinkin]

However I think you must feed and clothe people along with any spiritual assistance to warrant a humanitarian label (maybe that's just me).

Hey, she had the right to assist any way she thought appropriate. However I think it fraudulent and shameful to make people think you are giving food, shelter and medicine when it fact you are largely proselytizing (assuming that is what she did).

She herself was an incredibly religious person and motivated entirely by her beliefs -- I guess that shouldnt come as a surprise. Proselytism was (and is?) illegal in India as far as I know, and she discouraged it anyways... she said she was happy making Hindus better Hindus and Muslims better Muslims. In LA the brothers never preached to anyone. As far as I know we were the only white guys allowed to walk the streets of Watts, possibly because we didnt come with a "strings-attached message".

If you were a journalist, university professor, or politician, YES you were in for an earful... she "proselytized" for an hour and a half when she accepted an Honorary Doctor of Laws degree from the University of Alberta (yes i was there... i admit i started falling asleep).

From my brilliant research (15 seconds on Google) Penn's ideas are based on a book by a "Hitchens". Don't know it, havent read it... one thing it brings up is, and I remember her being criticized for, meeting with and taking money from Doc Duvalier? She didnt care who you were... she would take your money, preach your ear off, and then take your loot back to buy what "her poor" needed.

I must be getting old - i am reminiscing about things i did over 20 years ago...

-stillthinkin

 

[Huntster]

....If you have to figure out which morals in the guide are moral before you use it then it is a worthless guide.

Ummmmmmmmmmmm................

Let's pretend the Bible doesn't even exist.

That's right.

Now, can you refer me to a moral guide that fits your criteria?

 

[Huntster]

Alright, watched the video... there is one instance of bible kicking and some bible throwing, and there is a fireplace behind Michael Shermer (sp?), but no BBQ and no book burning, bible or otherwise.

Wasn't there a scandal over the Koran at Gitmo being abused?

Any loud liberals here want to comment?

 

[Huntster]

If Mother Theresa, in a significant fashion, helped feed and clothe and provide assistance including medicine to the poor then I would be willing to think differently of her.

Huh?

That's pretty much all she did.

Where have you been?

However I think you must feed and clothe people along with any spiritual assistance to warrant a humanitarian label (maybe that's just me).

You need an education. You can start here.

I think that if most people knew that her priorities were largely related to her beliefs about the salvation of poor people and not so much about their physical well being then I don't think she would be thought of so highly. I really don't.

Unbelievable!!!!!!

So, just because her "beliefs" were Catholic, her incredible good works are meaningless?!!!!!!

Hey, she had the right to assist any way she thought appropriate. However I think it fraudulent and shameful to make people think you are giving food, shelter and medicine when it fact you are largely proselytizing (assuming that is what she did).

I lost a lot of respect for you over the past several days.

What little that was left just disappeared.

 

[RandFan]

Ummmmmmmmmmmm................

Let's pretend the Bible doesn't even exist.

That's right.

Now, can you refer me to a moral guide that fits your criteria?

None exist and we sure as hell don't need one.

I grew up thinking atheists were immoral criminals who served their own needs and no one else's. Then I met some who were among the most moral people I ever met. Morality doesn't come from a book. It comes from us. If it didn't the book would be useless. We have to care about morality for morality to have any meaning. I want to live in a just society and I want to be treated with respect, dignity and compassion. It turns out that the best way for that to happen is if I treat others with respect, dignity and compassion.

What's interesting is that we can actually track the evolution of morals, laws (the legal codification of morals) and ethics just like you said only we didn't need a guide or a god. We figured it out all on our own.

 

[RandFan]

Huh?

That's pretty much all she did.

That's what I believed until the evidence showed otherwise.

You need an education. You can start here.

Propaganda.

Exposing Mother Teresa

So, just because her "beliefs" were Catholic, her incredible good works are meaningless?!!!!!!

Non sequitur, strawman. This has absolutely nothing to do with anything I wrote. Please argue for or against what I write and not something made up.

I lost a lot of respect for you over the past several days.

What little that was left just disappeared.

Likewise, you seem to me petty and immature and unwilling to consider any logically valid argument that does not fit your world view.

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster
Ummmmmmmmmmmm................

Let's pretend the Bible doesn't even exist.

That's right.

Now, can you refer me to a moral guide that fits your criteria?

None exist and we sure as hell don't need one.

After your insulting post regarding Teresa of Calcutta, I'd decided to not entertain you anymore. You're clearly insane.

This post confirms my assessment.

No moral guides exist, AND WE SURE AS HELL DON'T NEED ONE?

Goodbye.

 

[RandFan]

After your insulting post regarding Teresa of Calcutta, I'd decided to not entertain you anymore. You're clearly insane.

This post confirms my assessment.

No moral guides exist, AND WE SURE AS HELL DON'T NEED ONE?

Goodbye.

Goodbye huntster. The fingers in the ears is the best defense for ones world view. Good luck with that. Don't view the facts about Mother Teresa because you already know the truth. Facts? Who needs facts, right?

 

[Tony]

It's evident that Hunster is a loon.