Proof Of Time Travel?

[grunion]

Let's say someone were to claim that they were able to travel in time back to, say, the Paleozoic Era (between 250 and 500 million years ago), and return to the present. They claim that they would be able to observe but not interract with the environment, as that would impact the future and threaten their ability to return to the present. Thus, for example, they could take photographs or video recordings, or find things out, but not leave anything behind or bring anything back.

Is there any evidence they could provide as proof of this ability?

 

[Crowbot]

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.yeah...the photographs and video recordings?

 

[grunion]

Hmm, I expect you are convinced by the evidence for Bigfoot or Nessie then.

 

[Crowbot]

Hmm, I expect you are convinced by the evidence for Bigfoot or Nessie then.

Sorry, allow me to clarify:

How about 1500 high resolution photographs, and over 100 hours of video footage of Dimetrodons. That would do it for me, and would at least serve as evidence to anyone else that the person is capable of something extraordinary. Even if that something is extreme photo/video manipulation (maybe he's from the FUTURE!!!).

I think you kind of answered your own question in the original post though...another question I would pose is - how could an observer exist "in a previous time" without effecting his surroundings? Even the simple act of breathing would have an impact on the environment.

Or did you mean some sort of astral-projection time travel where the person merely "visualizes" the past, but does not physically exist in the place he is "seeing"?

 

[jskowron]

Every night (the clears ones, at least) I am able to witness events that happened dozens, if not more, years ago just by going outside and looking up. These events are often photographed. The real world can be really cool if you take the time to look at it.

 

[NobbyNobbs]

Wouldn't the fact that photons are entering the lens of the camera instead of passing through the space they normally would have be an interaction with the environment? I think Schroedinger had something to say about this.....

 

[Crowbot]

Every night (the clears ones, at least) I am able to witness events that happened dozens, if not more, years ago just by going outside and looking up. These events are often photographed. The real world can be really cool if you take the time to look at it.

I agree

But I think the OP is maybe posing the question of "if you could see the past, could you somehow prove it?". It would be much easier to prove you could see the past if you chose a period of time which has human-documented "mysteries", for example if you could view the past and witness assassinations where the murderer was never found (a U.S. president comes to mind) you could then "follow" the murderer around and eventually solve the case. Solve enough murder cases and that would be supporting evidence for your claim.

Trying to prove you've "seen" the Paleozoic Era would be significantly harder I would imagine.

 

[Crowbot]

Wouldn't the fact that photons are entering the lens of the camera instead of passing through the space they normally would have be an interaction with the environment? I think Schroedinger had something to say about this.....

Yep! Which is why I suggested the (even more ridiculous, but hey we're talkin' theories here!) astral-projection method where you're "magically" not effecting the environment.

 

[eri]

Why go that far back? If they could give me the details of some private conversations I had years ago, I would be willing to consider their stories. Should be easy for someone with a time machine, right?

Or they could use it to go FORWARD and make useful predictions that we could test.

 

[grunion]

...if you could view the past and witness assassinations where the murderer was never found (a U.S. president comes to mind) you could then "follow" the murderer around and eventually solve the case. Solve enough murder cases and that would be supporting evidence for your claim.

Trying to prove you've "seen" the Paleozoic Era would be significantly harder I would imagine.

An interesting idea, but it too relies on trust. What president are you referring to?

I doubt that someone claiming to have the solution to unsolved murder cases, via "psychic viewing" or time travel would be credible without hardcore physical evidence to present. Perhaps if they were to follow the victim around until they were murdered they would be able to point us to the location of the body? Would this be the extraordinary evidence that a skeptic would require to believe the claim? Also I could predict the objection that "my presence on the scene would thwart the murder."

In the context of the OP this scenario also doesn't fit - obviously there is evidence everywhere for the fact that there WAS a Paleozoic Era, just what is convicing evidence that I was there to observe it?

Perhaps it really is a case of Schroedinger's concept that observation necessarily impacts test results (if I understand correctly.)

 

[Ian Osborne]

The reason the photos and video recordings here would be more reliable than pics and movies of Nessie is the circumstances of their production could be tightly controlled. The time traveller could be searched, his or her equipment checked and the room where the time machine is based could be sealed. If the blank media suddenly (for those remaining at least) becomes filled with footage of dinosaurs, that would be a very strong indication that time travel has occurred.

As eri says, though, why go that far? All you need to do is set up some sort of 'event' in the room from where the time machine is to be launched (or anywhere else if you can move in space as well as time), wait for seven days then send the traveller back in time a week to film it.

And remember what sort of can of worms you're opening here. If s/he can film dinosaurs from the distant past, s/he can film your recent past too. Forget privacy - you now live in a goldfish bowl. Asimov wrote a brilliant short on this theme, but I can't remember the title.

 

[Nucular]

Useful predictions we could test could potentially come from observation of the Palaeozoic era: for instance, answering unsolved scientific questions about prehistoric animals, their behaviour, diet, environment, appearance, etc., and then seeing if any of these observations could be confirmed from modern study of fossils/geology/something else?

Or how about giving someone sealed recording and photographic equipment, which it would be obvious if someone tampered with, with only the capability to point and shoot?

 

[grunion]

Why go that far back? If they could give me the details of some private conversations I had years ago, I would be willing to consider their stories. Should be easy for someone with a time machine, right?

Or they could use it to go FORWARD and make useful predictions that we could test.

Neither of these abilities are what is being claimed.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Neither of these abilities are what is being claimed.

Well, you did call the thread 'Proof of Time Travel'. Speaking for myself, I took the prehistoric trip to be a means to this end, an end which could perhaps be better served by a shorter trip.

 

[Cuddles]

Hmm, I expect you are convinced by the evidence for Bigfoot or Nessie then.

Is there any actual evidence for them? All the photos and videos I have seen have been horribly blurred or just blatant fakes. If someone could provide a video of Nessie that actually showed something I would be much more convinced, assuming it could also be shown that they didn't fake it.

 

[Beady]

But I think the OP is maybe posing the question of "if you could see the past, could you somehow prove it?".

Quite easily, actually. Since The Past comprises everything that has ever happened, I would just look back to however long it would take to spot something you did that you have done everything possible to keep private. And since, according to the conditions of the OP, I would be able to record it...

 

[petre]

When it comes to proof, it always comes back to the person doing the proving.

Why does this person believe the images are indeed from that Era, and not from, for example, another planet (or even an alternate reality) similar to our own but eons behind us in progression?

If evidence has caused this person to believe something, then let the evidence be presented and judged. If this evidence is not available, then we've only hearsay that such exists and must judge it based on how trustworthy the source is. If there was no evidence, but this person simply "believes" it, then why ought others believe the same?

 

[drkitten]

Hmm, I expect you are convinced by the evidence for Bigfoot or Nessie then.

Actually, the question of the validity of photographs and such comes up all the time in the Real World.

I'd be inclined to believe a set of photographs backed up with reliable expert reports that have looked at the photos and state them to be genuine. ("Reliable," in this case, means both that the person has relevant experties -- i.e. is a certified forensic expert -- and is not a lone voice crying in the wilderness.) I'd submit to potentially life-threatening chemotherapy on approximately the same evidence -- someone took pictures and the relevant experts looked at it and said "oh, boy, we got to get you into chemo...."

I don't know whether photos and expert reports alone would satisfy Randi's milliion dollar challenge, but that's his problem, not mine.

I'm fairly sure that he would be able to come up with some sort of tamper-evident camera arrangement that would make it obvious that the photos hadn't been altered.

 

[Orangutan]

There's a box at the JREF with some random articles in it. Go back in time observe JR putting the stuff in the box then come here and tell us all what's in the box.



Edit, Or can you only go back millions of years?
Double Edit, I realise you are not actually claming you can do this, it's just a suppose.

 

[IXP]

The OP contains a contradiction. Taking photos or even observing IS interacting with the environment. Come up with a hypothetical that is not contradictory please.

IXP