Why don't christians know more?

You've completely misread Lewis. As he commented after the trilogy's publication, what humanity is up against in that story are "not scientists but officials". After the Nazis, Lewis was worried about the possibility of people in the future once more using scientific pretexts to carry out evil and inhumane agendas.

Lewis was very critical of scientism, of course, but so far as I know, never hostile to science or scientists as such.

Well said ceo-esq.

Yes, do re-read. You'll notice that Mark is most beguiled by the administration of the new organization. He pays no attention to the actual experiments or the results of the organization until forced to do so.
 
December 25th was the supposed birth date of Mithras, and this was "borrowed and adapted" into Christianity. There are several other striking similarities between Jesus and other preceeding mythical figures as well, not just Mithras but also Dionysus, Horus, and more. (Things such as baptism, being son of god, water into wine, etc. Worth looking up if you're interested.)

When you throw these coincidences back at xians they typically don't know anything about them (and then try to rationalise it away).

Christianity is never bothered by facts getting in the way of a good story.

My understanding is that Christmas was chosen to coincide with the pagan European mid-winter festivals to placate converts?

I agree with your point about the derivative nature of Christianity it almost certainly is not exclusive in its traditions.
 
If you die without having confessed a mortal sin, don't you still go to Hell? Also, I believe I am destined to Hell, having denied the Holy Spirit or whatever the hell that "unforgiveable sin" is.

I've tried on numerous occasions to elicit a consistent response from Christians on this but it is confuding to say the least. The simplified version I have pieced together is as follows...

1. You get to "heaven" by grace not by good works.
Depending upon your denomination I believe you can get to heaven by good works as well. Interestingly some say that having grace or being filled with the holy spirit will lead you to do good works anyway, something I rarely see confirmed by observation but I digress.
2. Grace is basically believing in the one true god (or all 3 of them if you are a trinitarian) and that Jesus (Joshua) died for your sins.
3. The only unforgiveable sin is not believing or having faith (not having the holy spirit) meaning you don't have grace. If you don't have grace then you don't get through the gates.
4. Hell isn't actually a place, it is being apart from god.
5. If you attain grace then you are actually forgiven for not having attained grace before so the unforgiveable sin is actually forgivable as long as you repent and believe.

If anyone has anything to add to that I'd welcome additions or corrections.
 
1. You get to "heaven" by grace not by good works.
Depending upon your denomination I believe you can get to heaven by good works as well. Interestingly some say that having grace or being filled with the holy spirit will lead you to do good works anyway, something I rarely see confirmed by observation but I digress.
There are some sects that claim you get to Heaven by good works alone, and not by grace.
4. Hell isn't actually a place, it is being apart from god.
Then I must be in Hell now, only it doesn't feel like it. I'm actually quite enjoying life.
Anyway, for some people, Hell is a real place. Check out Randi's examination of the authors of the Left Behind series in this week's Swift. Those are two people who believe that Hell is an actual place.
 
My understanding is that Christmas was chosen to coincide with the pagan European mid-winter festivals to placate converts?

Right. It was to offer competition to a festival which fell on the same day, so that the newly (or not even newly) converted would have something to celebrate that day, and not experience (or have something to help counteract) the pull of the golden calf.

-Elliot
 
1. You get to "heaven" by grace not by good works.
Depending upon your denomination I believe you can get to heaven by good works as well. Interestingly some say that having grace or being filled with the holy spirit will lead you to do good works anyway, something I rarely see confirmed by observation but I digress.

Most Christians agree that you need *both*. Some Christians side more with grace, but clearly express that good works are the necessary result or corrollary of grace. Catholics do *not* believe that good works can get you into heaven, as this implies that *we* are the arbiter and source of our salvation. Catholics do place a premium on good works as corporal acts of mercy, and we do believe that they can be "assigned" to specific things like souls suffering in purgatory, and we do belivee that God will recognize our good deeds (the bad deeds too).

In that "heaven" is a gift from God, the answer is clearly *grace*. Good works, being tangible, are more readily apparent and of course Christ commands us to do good works. Many Christians are not even all that interested in creating a dichotomy, and think this all goes together.

2. Grace is basically believing in the one true god (or all 3 of them if you are a trinitarian) and that Jesus (Joshua) died for your sins.

No!

Grace doesn't come from ourselves! Grace, or graces, are gifts from God.

3. The only unforgiveable sin is not believing or having faith (not having the holy spirit) meaning you don't have grace. If you don't have grace then you don't get through the gates.

There is no general Christian articulation in response to this.

I believe that *every human* will face God. I think most Christians believe that. Some humans will decide that God is anti-God, or Satan (i.e. blaspheme against the Holy Spirit). This would be the unforgiveable sin, saying God is the opposite (in nature) to what he actualy is. I think this is a common Christian understanding, though others might not articulate it as I have.

4. Hell isn't actually a place, it is being apart from god.

Right. Although some Christians do believe it is a physical location, in the center of the earth to be specific. Even Robertsons and Falwells describe Hell as a state of being more than a physical place.

5. If you attain grace then you are actually forgiven for not having attained grace before so the unforgiveable sin is actually forgivable as long as you repent and believe.

We don't "earn" grace. We accept it. It is offered to all, not just the best of us. Christians focus (some say too much) on the fact that we do *not* deserve God's grace, or, that God offers it to us despite our sinful nature.

The unforgiveable sin, in my opinion, is not contingent on ignorance.

If anyone has anything to add to that I'd welcome additions or corrections.

It's a tough one, to come up with a total and rigorous statement of general Christian belief. In my experience, Christians can and do partially agree with a variety of explanations for the same dogmas, while favoring a particular way of explaining it. To us, theological explanation is not as important as the the faith in the specific belief. We explain it as best we can, knowing full well that the reality is the important thing.

-Elliot
 
I believe that *every human* will face God.
Please explain how anyone can meet a work of fiction...
I think most Christians believe that. Some humans will decide that God is anti-God, or Satan (i.e. blaspheme against the Holy Spirit).
Please explain what blasphemy is. There is no evidence for the existence of the Holy Ghost. Nor is there any evidence for the Tooth Fairy. Is disbelieving in one but not the other blasphemy? If so, why the double standard? If not, what defines Xianity (as distinct from all the other superstitions)?
Right. Although some Christians do believe it is a physical location, in the center of the earth to be specific.
That's because primitive people saw erupting volcanoes, and pictured a fiery evil place under the Earth. We now know better. So, why do some people continue to cling to outmoded and demonstrably false ideas?
 
Right. It was to offer competition to a festival which fell on the same day, so that the newly (or not even newly) converted would have something to celebrate that day, and not experience (or have something to help counteract) the pull of the golden calf.

-Elliot

I would argue that it's more parasitic than competitive. I mean that in a non-critical way, but one of the great strengths of Christianity has been its ability to co-opt the festivals and customs of those it seeks to convert.
 
Please explain how anyone can meet a work of fiction...

Wait a second...you're not saying that God doesn't exist?

Is that what you're saying?

Please explain what blasphemy is. There is no evidence for the existence of the Holy Ghost. Nor is there any evidence for the Tooth Fairy. Is disbelieving in one but not the other blasphemy? If so, why the double standard? If not, what defines Xianity (as distinct from all the other superstitions)?

Wait a second...are you saying that the Holy Ghost is akin to the Tooth Fairy?

Is that what you're saying?

Regarding blasphemy and the Tooth Fairy, I'm not aware of the Tooth Fairy ever speaking about blasphemy, but if the Tooth Fairy talks to you fill me in.

That's because primitive people saw erupting volcanoes, and pictured a fiery evil place under the Earth. We now know better. So, why do some people continue to cling to outmoded and demonstrably false ideas?

Wait a second...are you saying that belief in God is an outmoted and demonstrably false idea?

Is that what you're saying?

Pardon me for asking, but you're not an atheist? Are you?

-Elliot
 
I would argue that it's more parasitic than competitive. I mean that in a non-critical way, but one of the great strengths of Christianity has been its ability to co-opt the festivals and customs of those it seeks to convert.

It was definitely both. I have no problem with the word parasitic...but that implies a relationship, symbiotic or not. Surely there no longer is a relationship, and if there was one, it was over in a relative blink. Christianity took what it wanted and the other just sort of disappeared. Parasitism has the host being the greater, the parasite being contingent, and it is prolonged from generation to generation.

-Elliot
 
Ok, so grace is given to non-believers then?

No, a gift doesn't have to be accepted, it can be offered and refused.

Or, a non-believer can accept a gift thinking it was something else? Trying to be charitable here.

-Elliot
 
Wait a second...you're not saying that God doesn't exist?
Is that what you're saying?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. The universe is over 14 billion years old, and there's zero evidence for god(s)--the same evidence for unicorns and faeries. As belief should rationally be proportional to the evidence, zero evidence equates to zero existence. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please tell me.
Wait a second...are you saying that the Holy Ghost is akin to the Tooth Fairy?
Is that what you're saying?
Yes; they're both mythical creatures.
Regarding blasphemy and the Tooth Fairy, I'm not aware of the Tooth Fairy ever speaking about blasphemy, but if the Tooth Fairy talks to you fill me in.
I'm not aware of the Holy Ghost speaking, either, given that he/she/it is mythical. If Spooky every talks to you, please let me know.
Wait a second...are you saying that belief in God is an outmoted and demonstrably false idea?
I'm saying that the reasons cited for belief in the past have been falsified. The burden of proof for the existence of gods, however, rests on the believer.
Pardon me for asking, but you're not an atheist? Are you?
Yes.
 
OK, I get it now. You're an atheist, and God doesn't exist and the Holy Spirit is Spooky. Thanks! Nice one!

-Elliot
 
Christian:

Christ-
Jesus Christ

-ian
One from, belonging to, relating to, or like

To understand the -ian, learn about the Christ-.
 
OK, I get it now. You're an atheist, and God doesn't exist and the Holy Spirit is Spooky. Thanks! Nice one!

-Elliot
It was actually the actor and comedian Billy Connelly who coined the term "Spooky". Right n the first two points, though.
 

Back
Top Bottom