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soulhill

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I was checking in on my brother's blog this evening when I noticed he was planning to see Joel Osteen this evening.

I thought, "wow, I'm so out of the pop culture, I don't even know who that is." So I decided to google the name, thinking I would find he was a singer, maybe a country singer, who I had not managed to hear about.

No. He's a self-help spouting preacher who believes, (and I now quote from his web site here) "the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error." This point of view, if one is able to read, is impossible, since the book is filled with contradictory, outdated and implausible information, peppered with a few good ideas.

I can't believe my brother could possibly be going to see this bozo. It was bad enough when he was pissing money away on Tony Robins cassettes.

I will be "praying" that he has suddenly accepted skeptisim and is, right now, debunking.


Any advice on how I address this without sounding as incredulous and disgusted as I am?
 
soulhill said:
Any advice on how I address this without sounding as incredulous and disgusted as I am?
Click to expand...

It depends on your goal. Do you want to educate your brother, make your own opinions known, or preserve your relationship? I think that fraternity should probably win the day here. "I'm glad you're exploring your faith," is really all that you have to (and all that you should) say.
 
Loss Leader said:
It depends on your goal. Do you want to educate your brother, make your own opinions known, or preserve your relationship? I think that fraternity should probably win the day here. "I'm glad you're exploring your faith," is really all that you have to (and all that you should) say.
Click to expand...

But I'm not glad. Not glad at all.
 
Well, soul, you could try asking him why he is going. What he thinks he will learn from the experience. What he expects to get from it. Find out what he is looking for. Do not accuse. Do not let him know how you feel about it. If you can find out what he is looking for you may have the chance to dissuade him.

What was his experience with the Tony Robbins stuff? Is there anything you can use there? Did he go in all gung ho and thinking he would get something amazing from the cassettes? Why did he give that nonsense up?

I wish you good luck with this. Just proceed with caution.
 
soulhill said:
But I'm not glad. Not glad at all.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is called being polite.

If there was any chance of changing your brother's mind and you thought it imperative that he change his beliefs in order to get through life; then I guess you could make a case that you were doing him some good.

But realistlically what are the odds of arguing someone out of their religion vs. angering them and causing a rift in your relationship?

It doesn't have to be religion either. Ever know someone who picked a really bad person as a spouse or lover? I mean someone who had real and obvious issues? Trying to talk sense to them only makes them cling to the person tighter.
 
Your brother likes charismatic people and is unsure in his his idealogical direction. Considering that I don't think you'd need to feel guilty about somehow getting him to appreciate a charismatic non-completely insane person like any of the people in the heroes of reason thread. Like leave on a history channel special on someone, a carl sagan segment, or even if he has a particular favorite rock musician, athlete, or celeb appeal to how that person and their outlook would ridicule what he's watching. That way you're using his already pre-established heroes against his burgeoning beliefs so you're half agreeing with him instead of directly making fun of him.
 
What's all this about 'preserving relationships'? You're brothers! I doubt you making fun of him or his beliefs would make your 'relationship' change.

If someone in my family has a stupid belief then I point out how stupid it is. If my brother were planning on going to some fundamentalist Christian self help seminar then I would make fun of him or spend a lot of time explaining how much nonsense the bible actually is, Or both.


"You're going to go listen to guy who believes God made man in 1 day, Noah fitted all of the animals in the world into an ark measuring 450 feet and a man survived inside of a fish for a week after being swallowed?? Have you lost your mind?"
 
Dustin said:
What's all this about 'preserving relationships'? You're brothers! I doubt you making fun of him or his beliefs would make your 'relationship' change.

If someone in my family has a stupid belief then I point out how stupid it is. If my brother were planning on going to some fundamentalist Christian self help seminar then I would make fun of him or spend a lot of time explaining how much nonsense the bible actually is, Or both.


"You're going to go listen to guy who believes God made man in 1 day, Noah fitted all of the animals in the world into an ark measuring 450 feet and a man survived inside of a fish for a week after being swallowed?? Have you lost your mind?"
Click to expand...

This approach may or may not work, depending on how much he is into the preacher in question. If he's already convinced himself to become a die-hard, unquestioning follower, then mocking him isn't going to do any good.

If he's still just flirting with the idea of taking a charismatic biblical literalist seriously, then taunt away.

Or just use a stick.

Stick - apply directly to his forehead!
Stick - apply directly to his forehead!
Stick - apply directly to his forehead!
 
First check if he went with a gullible woman.
Find out if she's pretty.

He may be a satanist working undercover.
 
soulhill said:
I was checking in on my brother's blog this evening when I noticed he was planning to see Joel Osteen this evening.

I thought, "wow, I'm so out of the pop culture, I don't even know who that is." So I decided to google the name, thinking I would find he was a singer, maybe a country singer, who I had not managed to hear about.

No. He's a self-help spouting preacher who believes, (and I now quote from his web site here) "the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error." This point of view, if one is able to read, is impossible, since the book is filled with contradictory, outdated and implausible information, peppered with a few good ideas.

I can't believe my brother could possibly be going to see this bozo. It was bad enough when he was pissing money away on Tony Robins cassettes.

I will be "praying" that he has suddenly accepted skeptisim and is, right now, debunking.


Any advice on how I address this without sounding as incredulous and disgusted as I am?
Click to expand...

As it is I don't think you need to pull too many hamstrings in having him "getting it" by frontal attack.
It's usually an unappreciated and counter-productive effort.

He's your brother so I would hope he has it in him to accept your thoughts on such a matter and maybe you should just lead by example and judgement, maybe he will become more interested in your views and skepticism if you are understanding and generally a nice, humble support of him making his own choices... still making it clear that you don't view such choices as necessarily well and correct though.

Skepticism is supposed to be the appealing voice of reason and inquiry, as opposed to the sentencing voice of intolerance and disdain, that's more the dogmatic voice resounding.
 
Give him SHAM by Steven Salerno or rent the BULLSH*T episode on self-help.
 
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thomps1d said:
This approach may or may not work, depending on how much he is into the preacher in question. If he's already convinced himself to become a die-hard, unquestioning follower, then mocking him isn't going to do any good.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but it could still be a lot of fun! :D
 
Loss Leader said:
It depends on your goal. Do you want to educate your brother, make your own opinions known, or preserve your relationship? I think that fraternity should probably win the day here. "I'm glad you're exploring your faith," is really all that you have to (and all that you should) say.
Click to expand...


^Couldn't be more incorrect.

It is your bro, a) you should always say whatever you feel. b) do him a favor by trying to eduacate him.

I see these types as different levels of evil...Someone I know is a Christian, I kind of put up with...Someone I know is a Morman...I let them have it.

Someone I know goes to church....cool....Someone I know goes to Joel Osteen...I let them know how stupid they are, and what they could do to correct this error. I also ask them for money, because apperently they like to piss it away.
 
This guy is annoying for many of us who live near Houston. He purchased the old basketball arena to hold his Sunday brainw.. uh, church sessions. Imagine, thousands of people filling stadium seating in order to watch a con man fleece them out of their hard earned cash. I wonder if they sell beer and hot dogs?
 
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