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Is College Bull****? I think it is.

fuelair said:
No matter what you can demonstrate, if you "educated yourself" no one with expertise has been evaluating at every level of your assumed training how well you assimilated that training and how well you applied it - or, what you skipped because you didn't realize- or believe- it was important to being a doctor. The amount of time needed to evaluate your real knowledge and capabilities would be some similar to the time required for you to go to med school where that would have been continuously occuring. If, by demonstrating your ability you actually think a written test or two combined with a little demo of your cutting skills would be enough to allow any competant physician to say "Hey, I'm impressed, let's give him the old sheepskin and turn him loose on patients right now!!!" you are seriously deluded (or planning to practice medicine in the back hills of a third world country).:jaw-dropp
(I am not usually a college teacher, but I have had surgery. So.........)
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To be fair, and I've heard this from doctors, the practice of Dermatology is as easy as it gets. And since Dustin is well on his way to being fully self-educated in the field, I'll at least send my worst enemy to him for mole check.
 
Rob Lister said:
After reading every other page of this thread, I beg you all to leave Dustin alone.

I know it is unlikely but he may well take some of your well-put advice to heart and go to college...

and become a doctor...

THEN we have REAL problems.
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Dammit, Rob. There were so many things that I wanted to say, but, then, you whip this out.

Feels like a lost cause, and do I really want to persuade him otherwise? Hmm.

Then again, is that really possible? :confused:
 
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hgc said:
To be fair, and I've heard this from doctors, the practice of Dermatology is as easy as it gets. And since Dustin is well on his way to being fully self-educated in the field, I'll at least send my worst enemy to him for mole check.
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For once, what you have heard is correct. The sad thing is is that dermatology is attracting the best and the brightest in medicine. There was an article not long ago entitled "The Brain Drain". I think that it was in Time or Newsweek-not exactly quality journalism, but I liked the title. What it described was true, for once. It discussed the fact that the most competitive specialties in medicine were the ones with the best lifestyle, the highest reimbursement rates, and the lowest malpractice costs-not the fields that require the most intelligence or the most impressive dexterity.

Translation? Dermatology is the most competitive field in medicine to get into today (at least in America). You cannot even get an interview for a dermatology residency in most places without being a straight A honors student. I find that sad because, as you pointed out, it really doesn't take brains to do it. But it does take brains to get into it when you're looking to have a life.

Do not mistake me. I don't blame those folks, though. They are only human. Sure, I have some romantic notion of pursuing the most intellectually stimulating and "honorable" (whatever my interpretation of that may be) field, but whatever intrinsic gains are made by doing so are quickly off-set by the extrinsic losses.

I blame our stupid healthcare system and, frankly some of society's priorities. I don't understand why 15 min with a dermatologist or a plastic surgeon costs 3-4 times what 45 to 60min would cost with your internist. Freezing a wart versus making sure that all of your preventive health screenings are taken care of, answering all of your questions about any new meds that you might be on, fielding any new issues that may have arisen since your last visit, and dealing with questions that you might have because of the g*dd&mn direct-to-consumer advertising there is on TV and in the lay press seems like a pretty pathetic comparison. I find it sad that we don't appreciate our primary care docs more. They are the backbone of the healthcare system (and no, I'm not one, if that's what you're thinking).

Ask yourself. Is your dermatologist or your PCP worth more? I can say that, facing older age (OK not that soon but I think about it), who the hell is going to take care of me? Why would they? Being a PCP is thankless, draining, and financially insane. Anyone who does go into primary care should either be celebrated as incredibly generous or delusional.

Do I sound cynical or what?

Ahem, do I digress? :o
 
wolfgirl said:
He did not make just as many errors as you did. You made many more errors. And his were obviously typos as opposed to actual spelling errors like using "it's" when you meant "its" or "who's" when it should have been "whose" or "kidabers" instead of "cadavers."
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It was soup-- soup, I tell you! Butternut squash, too, so the sticky (now mostly clean) keyboard is less of a tragedy than the fact that I didn't get to enjoy it.

Iamme said:
This is very interesting... and I see ol Dustin is getting raked over the coals in a similar way *I* would if I had brought up such a novel idea.
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At least we're consistent.

That said...don't any of you see a similarity here between this and home schooling? Isn't home schooling known to be very successful in the cases where the student actually WANTS to learn and can do so at their pace?
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There's no such thing as "home college." The closest comparison might be to correspondence courses; as I said earlier in the thread, I suspect (but have no firm evidence) that students who complete correspondence degrees tend to have a less expert grasp of the subject matter than students who attend traditional colleges. As for home schooling at the elementary and high school level, the material presented there isn't so sophisticated as to require Ph.D.-level instruction, nor does it generally require access to expensive equipment. Finally, home schooling still involves instruction and discussion with a teacher.

The reason authority wants people licensed is so that there can be a level of competency assured where the inspector does not have to inspect every aspect of the person's work. But I think what Dustin is hoping for is a system where the books aspect of learning trades or professions such as medical can be gotten on one's own, at their own pace, and then the person is tested, in the way college students are tested, and if you pass, you then are allowed to move on to hands on apprenticeships and internships.
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That may be, but what he doesn't seem to understand, and what many people have been trying to explain to him, is that simply reading a book does not impart the same level of comprehension as does attending classes and submitting one's work for correction and feedback by a recognized expert in the field.

It does indeed seem that such a strategy could be possible, and less costly individually and for the taxpayers.
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Not if we wish to consistently maintain the level of expertise typically imparted to university students in and undergraduate- or graduate-level education.
 
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tkingdoll said:
Have I got this right? Dustin disagrees with something his dermatologist said, therefore college education is useless?

Or is it Dustin disagrees with something his dermatologist said, therefore college education is no better than reading Wikipedia?
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And, you don't need a college education to write scientific papers, because all you need to do is edit Wikipedia! That is equivalent to writing scientific papers!

And Dustin can write any scientific paper, if he only had enough information! (Which he probably thinks he can find in the Wikipedia he has edited)

I think that covers most of it...
 
ponderingturtle said:
The point is that you are not getting a vector as a product. You are sometimes sqauring the X component of velocity to figure out how various velocities add to gether and such, but never really getting a vector result from it.

That is one of the reasons why mv makes no sense as energy, it is a vector, while 1/2mv^2 is a scaler.

I tried to tell him that of course mv is concerved as well as that is momentum which while not the same thing as energy, is also concerved. He was absolutly conviced I was wrong and could not do math, well that showed my that biology does not require much of a math basis.
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Stop derailing my thread.
 
wolfgirl said:
He did not make just as many errors as you did. You made many more errors. And his were obviously typos as opposed to actual spelling errors like using "it's" when you meant "its" or "who's" when it should have been "whose" or "kidabers" instead of "cadavers."

These things do matter to a lot of people. As they should.
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1.No. He made many more before he suddenly started using a spell checker....Oh wait..I mean new keyboard.:rolleyes:


2.Attacking my spelling is a logical fallacy.


3.From reading your past posts....You're probably the last person to be criticizing my spelling.
 
Questioninggeller said:
The libertarian stance of the show got in the way of premise. Aristotle believed intelligence was having compassion because intelligence is in understanding someone else's perspective. College has a tendency to teach that more often than someone who is an avid self-learner. That is, someone self taught (an autodidactic) will likely read things they are interested in and will have a narrowed field of knowledge. College forces people to read outside their perspective introducing a much more liberal view of the world.
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You can't force someone to learn. Forcing people to try to learn something that doesn't interest them is ultimately a failure.

That's why the dropout rate in college is so high.
 
tkingdoll said:
Have I got this right? Dustin disagrees with something his dermatologist said, therefore college education is useless?
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No.

tkingdoll said:
Or is it Dustin disagrees with something his dermatologist said, therefore college education is no better than reading Wikipedia?
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No.



Try actually reading what I typed before making uneducated assumptions.



Didn't college teach you that?:rolleyes:
 
slingblade said:
You think $1600/semester is too much to pay? Wow.



I'm whiter than you, probably, and I'm still getting plenty of grants. In fact, this semester my student funds are made up primarily of grants.

PELL AWARD
$600.00

(STATE) STUDENT GRANT L2
$750.00

SUBSIDIZED STAFFORD LOAN
$294.00

SOF TUITION VOUCHER
$1,032.00



No, I didn't have perfect grades in high school; far from it. Besides, high school was 1977 for me. I seriously doubt they took one look at my transcripts.

You are so wrong. So very, very wrong. And your English skills could use a serious amount of work. Stay off Wikipedia; you don't have the skills for it, and I don't feel like reading your mistakes.

Kidabers? KIDABERS?
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Oh ...Amazing. You got a whopping $2676 for your college education. You're just flying through now aren't you? :rolleyes:


You're desperate. You continue to attack my rare spelling mistakes because you aren't intellectually honest enough to formulate a real discussion. You make me laugh.
 
Rob Lister said:
After reading every other page of this thread, I beg you all to leave Dustin alone.

I know it is unlikely but he may well take some of your well-put advice to heart and go to college...

and become a doctor...

THEN we have REAL problems.
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Still mad I refuted your Israeli nonsense in the other threads I see...Insults and no content.:rolleyes:
 
Dustin said:
Oh ...Amazing. You got a whopping $2676 for your college education. You're just flying through now aren't you? :rolleyes:
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No, I'm proving to you that college is affordable, and that using myself as one example, I've been given enough money, free and clear, to pay for it, and still have some left over. Free. Gratis. Didn't even have to ask for it. Here ya go; learn it up.

In other words, college is affordable, and one doesn't need to be black to have money for it handed to her. Fancy that.

If you're going to waste all that time rolling your eyes, better get some training wheels on those babies.


You're desperate.
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Ad hom. :p

You continue to attack my rare spelling mistakes because you aren't intellectually honest enough to formulate a real discussion.
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I point out the mistakes you make as clear evidence that you are undereducated, in spite of all your typing. You present the evidence against your own argument. Congratulations.

You make me laugh.
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You make me shake my head in sheer pity, but that's neither here nor there.
 
slingblade said:
No, I'm proving to you that college is affordable, and that using myself as one example, I've been given enough money, free and clear, to pay for it, and still have some left over. Free. Gratis. Didn't even have to ask for it. Here ya go; learn it up.

In other words, college is affordable, and one doesn't need to be black to have money for it handed to her. Fancy that.

If you're going to waste all that time rolling your eyes, better get some training wheels on those babies..
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No college costs $2,000:rolleyes:




slingblade said:
Ad hom. :p
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That isn't an Ad hom. An Ad hom is a form of argument in which the arguer makes a personal claim about the one he is arguing against and uses that personal attribute against the argument itself.

One more thing college never taught you.


slingblade said:
I point out the mistakes you make as clear evidence that you are undereducated, in spite of all your typing. You present the evidence against your own argument. Congratulations.
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Attacking my spelling and concluding I’m 'undereducated' based on a few spelling errors is not only absolutely absurd and desperate, It's as I’ve pointed out numerous times. A text book logical fallacy.


But I guess college never taught you anything about logic.
 
Dustin,

Here are some unabashed Ad Homs for ya.

You're a self-important twit who thinks a dead body is referred to as a "kidaber".

It's obvious to anyone with a room-temperature IQ that you have lost this debate, but you're too dense to see it.

You still haven't admitted your error when you stated that it's illegal to practice law without having attended law school. That's because you're an idiot. A knuckle dragging, mouth breathing idiot.

I think I'll stop at 3 Ad Homs, because if I kept going I'd be typing for a very long time.

Oh, and I'll save you a mouseclick by clicking on the rolleyes smiley for you.

:rolleyes:

Dolt.
 
What is the cost of college education in America today anyway? I'm sure you can pay through the nose by going to the most prestigious private institutions, but what about elsewhere? The UC system is a state-run one and at least has some good research campuses, is that cheaper?

Sincerely,
The guy who's paying for it all through taxes
 
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