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Evolution Major Vanishes From Approved Federal List

slingblade said:
Answer: too many things to list here. That's my degree, so I looked it up.
http://english.unc.edu/undergrad/careers.html

While looking for something other than a teaching job (which I can still easily get, but have decided not to pursue for now, if ever), I saw a lot of copy editor vacancies, paying much more than teacher salary. I'd love that job. But I would feel more confident seeking it with a little know-how. The classes I'm in now will teach me certain software and skills which will help me get the job more readily, and help my confidence. But I could have gotten such a position without them, with my English degree alone.
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Fine. Now perhaps others could do the same research on a Woman's Studies degree. For starters, ask a few what kinds of jobs they do.

My point is that it is easy to dismiss such things as folly, but that is an argument made in ignorance. Has Rob Lister actually investigated what Women's Studies majors do? No. Yet, he has no problems acting as if it's useless, using pithy one-liners to denigrate it.

What does one do with a philosophy degree? Personally, I haven't a clue (outside of teaching philosophy) but that doesn't lead me to question it as a legitimate field of study or a major.
 
pgwenthold said:
Fine. Now perhaps others could do the same research on a Woman's Studies degree. For starters, ask a few what kinds of jobs they do.

My point is that it is easy to dismiss such things as folly, but that is an argument made in ignorance. Has Rob Lister actually investigated what Women's Studies majors do? No. Yet, he has no problems acting as if it's useless, using pithy one-liners to denigrate it.

What does one do with a philosophy degree? Personally, I haven't a clue (outside of teaching philosophy) but that doesn't lead me to question it as a legitimate field of study or a major.
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No one is questioning it as a field of study, people are questioning if it is an employable degree. Or rather asserting that there are is nothing outside of accademics that someone can do with that degree. And what is the utility of having an accademic degree if you are not involved in accademics?
 
pgwenthold said:
Fine. Now perhaps others could do the same research on a Woman's Studies degree. For starters, ask a few what kinds of jobs they do.
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http://www.msu.edu/~wmstdy/wsmjr1.htm
Here you go. That's just the first hit; haven't looked at the rest, yet.

My point is that it is easy to dismiss such things as folly, but that is an argument made in ignorance. Has Rob Lister actually investigated what Women's Studies majors do? No. Yet, he has no problems acting as if it's useless, using pithy one-liners to denigrate it.
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Yeah, well......:rolleyes:
 
ponderingturtle said:
A friend of mine ended up editing lawyers so that they say what they mean, think of the case of the comma in the contract in canada not to long ago.

There are jobs in publishing that having an english degree helps with. I am not aware of any non accademic jobs for womens studies.
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I'm betting you weren't an English major.
 
pgwenthold said:
Fine. Now perhaps others could do the same research on a Woman's Studies degree. For starters, ask a few what kinds of jobs they do.

My point is that it is easy to dismiss such things as folly, but that is an argument made in ignorance. Has Rob Lister actually investigated what Women's Studies majors do? No. Yet, he has no problems acting as if it's useless, using pithy one-liners to denigrate it.
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Sorry you feel that way. Read back in the thread and you'll see I was asking an honest question. I interview people for positions about twice monthly. I've never come across someone with a degree in WS but if I did, I certainly would NOT hire them, not matter what their other qualifications. I'm guessing you can figure out why -- but I'll sum it up as a 'recipe for disaster'.

Few other degrees, exactly applicable employment opp or not, have the same connotation. Chalk it up to my bigotry but, then again, I probably wouldn't hire someone with a BA in Men's Studies either.

Others and other companies may find such a degree advantageous. More power to them. I just know my niece couldn't find one.
 
Dave1001 said:
It approaches absurdity when people can get bachelor degrees in "Genetic Engineering" or Neuroscience". Completely unecessary, and perhaps actively harmful for the student, who ends up with an overspecialized looking resume that probably unecessarily restricts their job market opportunities.
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Actually,.... no. It doesn't unnecessarily restrict their job market opportunities; it usually enhances them.

The idea of taking generalists and training them in the specialized knowledge needed for a job has all but vanished from the large HR departments. (Despite everything that the top management has been saying for decades, too.) For a large chemical or biotechnological firm, a single advertised position will typically get several hundred applications, and one of the easiest ways for HR to eliminate candidates is simply to throw out the degrees that appear less relevant. So a position, for example, in a group working on antipsychotic drugs, a degree reading "Neuroscience" would have a much better shot -- even for a simple lab tech job -- than a degree reading "Biology."

The same applies, only more so, for the softer degrees; a degree in "communications" is less valuable than a degree in "publishing," but both are more valuable than an English degree to a typical publisher. In some fields, such as archival studies (which used to be the domain of historians), it's gotten to the point that degrees are offered -- and valued -- in corporate archival studies as opposed to non-profit archival studies, as though the idea of record-keeping is that much different for XYZ corp than for the South Hudson Philharmonic.

Things are different at most graduate schools; graduate admissions are typically done by department, not by a single ill-informed HR department, and professors are usually willing to read applications more closely than the HR drones.
 
drkitten said:
Actually,.... no. It doesn't unnecessarily restrict their job market opportunities; it usually enhances them.

The idea of taking generalists and training them in the specialized knowledge needed for a job has all but vanished from the large HR departments. (Despite everything that the top management has been saying for decades, too.) For a large chemical or biotechnological firm, a single advertised position will typically get several hundred applications, and one of the easiest ways for HR to eliminate candidates is simply to throw out the degrees that appear less relevant. So a position, for example, in a group working on antipsychotic drugs, a degree reading "Neuroscience" would have a much better shot -- even for a simple lab tech job -- than a degree reading "Biology."

The same applies, only more so, for the softer degrees; a degree in "communications" is less valuable than a degree in "publishing," but both are more valuable than an English degree to a typical publisher. In some fields, such as archival studies (which used to be the domain of historians), it's gotten to the point that degrees are offered -- and valued -- in corporate archival studies as opposed to non-profit archival studies, as though the idea of record-keeping is that much different for XYZ corp than for the South Hudson Philharmonic.

Things are different at most graduate schools; graduate admissions are typically done by department, not by a single ill-informed HR department, and professors are usually willing to read applications more closely than the HR drones.
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I don't think that's true in the sciences. From what I've read on this website, you have an impressive resume as a scientist (although I'm not sure in what discipline -the biomedical sciences?) so I'm surprised by your take on this. I have some experience in that field, as an undergraduate major and in working for a pharmaceutical company, and it seemed pretty clear to me that there was no real advantage in a gimmicky undergraduate major like "neuroscience" or "genetic engineering". It didn't seem to help people get bachelor level positions within those narrow disciplines, and it seemed to actively hurt people trying to get jobs outside of those narrow disciplines.
 
EBU said:
Women's studies jobs: This place lists jobs like counselors and office managers at places like domestic violence centers. There are also jobs for attorneys posted there, so I suppose you could go to law school with a degree in women's studies?

http://www.feminist.org/911/jobs/job_results.asp
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Well it is a degree and some things just require having a degree. But that does not mean it is an employable job
 
slingblade said:
http://www.msu.edu/~wmstdy/wsmjr1.htm
Here you go. That's just the first hit; haven't looked at the rest, yet.
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B. Additional Employment Skills You Gain With a WS Degree
Larissa Semenuk, a Women's Studies graduate, explains: "The major prepares one to do anything any other liberal arts major does but with deeper insight into issues of oppression and celebration of women. Hopefully, this insight carries over into important issues of other groups -- making one more sensitive and therefore more prepared to do all things/jobs with greater attention to ethical standards. A Women's Studies major is taught to look for the hidden -- like looking for the silenced voices of women in history. It's invaluable!" (Luebke and Reilly 19).
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There does seem to be some assumptions do hold. Now it is still a degree and meets the requirements for having a degree that many jobs do, but that is the baseline part of it. THe actual courses don't seem to be all that readily employable
 
ponderingturtle said:
There does seem to be some assumptions do hold. Now it is still a degree and meets the requirements for having a degree that many jobs do, but that is the baseline part of it. THe actual courses don't seem to be all that readily employable
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Probably/possibly not, I'll grant that. I can't help but find it passing sad that the only reason to get an education is to make more money, not to be educated. I know, I know, but still. The question: "What's that good for? You can't make any money with it!" makes me rather sad.
 
slingblade said:
Probably/possibly not, I'll grant that. I can't help but find it passing sad that the only reason to get an education is to make more money, not to be educated. I know, I know, but still. The question: "What's that good for? You can't make any money with it!" makes me rather sad.
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I have never said it was pointless, just of only accademic interest, and not employable. I don't know how it compares to say history(all the teacher jobs vs counseling). They have their uses, but most of the people with them will likely have problems useing their degree in their job.
 
slingblade said:
I can't help but find it passing sad that the only reason to get an education is to make more money, not to be educated.
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Clearly someone getting this type of degree is interested in the education, not the money. It's only 'after the getting of it' that money becomes an issue and the degreed proclaims, "darn, I just wasted four years."
 
I don't happen to think spending four years learning was wasted time. But in the sense of earning money from it, sure.

I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone in particular, just at the general mind-set. It's everywhere, and it does have a point, no doubt. We do need to make our livings, of course, and the better our educations, the more we can earn.

Just meant that it's sad in a general sense that education is valued more for its money-making propensities.
 
slingblade said:
I don't happen to think spending four years learning was wasted time. But in the sense of earning money from it, sure.

I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone in particular, just at the general mind-set. It's everywhere, and it does have a point, no doubt. We do need to make our livings, of course, and the better our educations, the more we can earn.

Just meant that it's sad in a general sense that education is valued more for its money-making propensities.
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Perhaps you should give a bit more consideration as to the "white cliffs of reality" definition of "value".

Please 'cuse my bigoted response.
 
I believe I did speak to reality in my second paragraph.

As to "excusing your bigoted response," I don't generally excuse bigotry.
My opinion doesn't jibe with yours, Lister. You can deal.
 
slingblade said:
I believe I did speak to reality in my second paragraph.

As to "excusing your bigoted response," I don't generally excuse bigotry.
My opinion doesn't jibe with yours, Lister. You can deal.
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Certainly I can deal. In fact, I find your opinion amusing. You're essentially saying 'life ain't fair'. 'Cuse my vernacular. I'm sure you say 'is not'.
 
Having been an English major in undergrad myself, I'm quite happy that I chose that path as opposed to something more "practical," although if I had it to do over again I probably would double-major in English and philosophy, and would take more science. The edification that comes with a good general humanities education is not something that is easily quantified in terms of future earning potential.

That said, I was wholly unprepared upon graduation for any sort of specialized career path. I think that humanities degrees are excellent general undergraduate pursuits, but should generally be undertaken with the expectation that the student will either go on to grad school or double major in something more practical if he or she wants to pursue a career that requires any degree of expert knowledge or ability. I enjoyed law school, but I certainly wouldn't give up my years of studying Chaucer and Shakespeare.
 
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