Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

[kevin]

Note there are no Massive Columns inside the core area. the steel that is there is support for elevator guide rails.

I count at least 6 interior columns in Gravy's picture and that's without zooming into for a closer examination.

As I pointed out at http://noconcretecore.741.com/ elevator guide rails don't get installed during structural installation. They just get in the way, and get damaged. Not to mention they have to be perfectly plumb to the walls and the only way to guarantee that is to wait until the shaft is complete.

 

[kevin]

My diagram of hallways and interior walls of the WTC 1 steel reinforced concrete core stays as it is and is as finished as it will be.

Have you calculated how thick the ceilings of your hallways would have to be to support 110 floors of concrete wall?

As I state at http://noconcretecore.741.com (just to prove I can abuse links as much as anyone), your design fails on many fronts. First is the problem of the hallways running through the interior walls. that means the ceiling of each hallway has to support all the interior walls (and hallways) above it.

Then there is the entertaining fact that the only way you can get elevators to stop on consecutive floors is top put doors at 90 degrees to each other and exit one floor to the front and one floor to right (and limit yourself to 4 elevator shafts), or have each elevator stop on every other floor. Nobody sane designs elevators like that.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Mr. Brown:

Are you feeling well today? Also, would you say that in recent days things have been average, better than average, or worse than average? Remember that things are never as bad as they seem. You can trust me on this.

Please let's continue where we left off with your buildings-fell-in-the-wrong-order claim, which we had been discussing before you were suspended (not banned) here*. I would certainly enjoy the discussion. What do you say?

Also, I remain curious as to your plans for presenting your various materials to one or more professional structural engineers. Will you be doing this soon? Perhaps you could publish in one or more scientific journals.

*In addition, an admission that you were mistaken when you claimed on the phsyorg forum that you were banned, not to mention an apology to me for your unprovoked personal attacks, would be appropriate, don't you think?

 

[Mancman]

Not to mention they have to be perfectly plumb to the walls and the only way to guarantee that is to wait until the shaft is complete.

Not to mention that elevator guide rails are not usually 52 inches wide.

 

[Christophera]

Sorry, Circumstance Inadequate For Purposes You Attempt

If there was a hefty concrete core within the WTC in addition to all those steel core columns, how was this landing gear able to go through straight through the centre of WTC1 and take out a perimeter column tree on the south side of the building?
[qimg]http://killtown.911review.org/images/wtc-gallery/7-70_tire-embedded-wtc1-panel.jpg[/qimg]

The engines and the landing gear are very close to each other and one engine from each plane punctured the concrete core, both walls as the only projectiles hard enough with enough mass to go through the concrete, The landing gear followed the engine through.

What you were reasonably supposed to do you have not done.

Post an image from the demolitions that shows a steel core column in the core area above ground level.

 

[Christophera]

I don't see multiple diagonal hallways on each floor in your diagram. Please explain.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/879044ea70174f256.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/879044e6c65e64d34.jpg[/qimg]​

You should reasonably explain why you expect diagonal hallways. If is from a comment of mine, post a link.

I've never stated such existed. You are posting false information.

 

[Mancman]

The engines and the landing gear are very close to each other and one engine from each plane punctured the concrete core, both walls as the only projectiles hard enough with enough mass to go through the concrete, The landing gear followed the engine through.

What you were reasonably supposed to do you have not done.

Post an image from the demolitions that shows a steel core column in the core area above ground level.

You are wrong. ONE engine in total went through the buildings, that was from WTC2, it missed the core and went through the corner of the tower, landing on Murrary Street.

At WTC1, the only sizeable aircraft debris that went through the building were pieces of the main landing gears.

So for your hypothesis to have taken place, the engine would have gone through the perimeter wall, through a core of 3 reinforced concrete walls(as indicated by your lovely diagram) and steel columns.

To 'follow the engine through' the landing gear would have to somehow shift 10ft to the side, and go directly through the holes created by the engine. The engine would then have to disintergrate enough to not eject any sizeable pieces into the streets, and in time to let the landing gear go through and hit the perimeter wall, smashing the column tree out of place.

I'm sure even you realise this is impossible, christophera. That landing gear would have to move like the JFK magic bullet.

And if this isn't a big bundle of steel core columns, I don't know what is.

 

[rwguinn]

You are wrong. ONE engine in total went through the buildings, that was from WTC2, it missed the core and went through the corner of the tower, landing on Murrary Street.

At WTC1, the only sizeable aircraft debris that went through the building were pieces of the main landing gears.

So for your hypothesis to have taken place, the engine would have gone through the perimeter wall, through a core of 3 reinforced concrete walls(as indicated by your lovely diagram) and steel columns.

Don't forget! 17' thick 3" rebars on 4' centers!

To 'follow the engine through' the landing gear would have to somehow shift 10ft to the side, and go directly through the holes created by the engine. The engine would then have to disintergrate enough to not eject any sizeable pieces into the streets, and in time to let the landing gear go through and hit the perimeter wall, smashing the column tree out of place.

I'm sure even you realise this is impossible, christophera. That landing gear would have to move like the JFK magic bullet.
http://killtown.911review.org/images/wtc-gallery/7-3_wtc1-767-disintegrating-planview.jpg

http://www.airchive.com/airline pics/Atlanta Compressed/dl 767-300.jpg

And if this isn't a big bundle of steel core columns, I don't know what is.

 

[Christophera]

You are wrong. ONE engine in total went through the buildings, that was from WTC2, it missed the core and went through the corner of the tower, landing on Murrary Street.

Examine closely what I said. I did not say that any engines that went through the core also went through the building.

The engines and the landing gear are very close to each other and one engine from each plane punctured the concrete core, both walls as the only projectiles hard enough with enough mass to go through the concrete, The landing gear followed the engine through.

Post an image from the demolitions that shows a steel core column in the core area above ground level.

YouAnd if this isn't a big bundle of steel core columns, I don't know what is.

The latter, those are interior box columns, floor beams are visible connecting them. Where are the steel columns that are supposed to be inside of those?

 

[Christophera]

Don't forget! 17' thick 3" rebars on 4' centers!

By the time the landing gear follows the engine through 2 walls about 2.5 thick concrete for WTC 1 (4 feet for WTC 2), with a wave of debris behind it. it could easily shift/deflect 10 feet. Think, it travelled over 208 feet through 3 walls to bounce off the inside of the far perimeter box columns.

 

[Gravy]

Where are your multiple moving diagonal hallways on each floor, Chris? How many times do I have to ask you?

Answer the question.

 

[Belz...]

The engines and the landing gear are very close to each other and one engine from each plane punctured the concrete core, both walls as the only projectiles hard enough with enough mass to go through the concrete, The landing gear followed the engine through.

So, in your astute opinion the landing gear could've punched through the concrete core TWICE ?

Examine closely what I said. I did not say that any engines that went through the core also went through the building.

So your expert opinion is that the engine went through the core but not the building, providing a perfect corridor for the landing gear, which for some reason FOLLOWED the engine, to go through ? You're just making stuff up.

The latter, those are interior box columns, floor beams are visible connecting them. Where are the steel columns that are supposed to be inside of those?

Sorry, but those are it.

 

[Gravy]

You should reasonably explain why you expect diagonal hallways. If is from a comment of mine, post a link.

I've never stated such existed. You are posting false information.

Look at the angle of the photo in question, Einstein. It's looking diagonally through the building. As I've explained to you a number of times, this is from video, and as tha camera moves, so do your multiple "hallways" on each floor.

Give it up and seek professional mental health care, Chris. You need it badly.

 

[Mancman]

By the time the landing gear follows the engine through 2 walls about 2.5 thick concrete for WTC 1 (4 feet for WTC 2), with a wave of debris behind it. it could easily shift/deflect 10 feet. Think, it travelled over 208 feet through 3 walls to bounce off the inside of the far perimeter box columns.

Christophera, since you seem to love diagrams, I'm sure you'll like this. It took me an entire 4 minutes.

As would have to happen for your theory to be correct.

Your 'following the engine through' theory is ridiculous.
The landing gear alone could not smash through 3 concrete walls and still have the energy to take out the perimeter columns.

Your concrete core theory is null, void. It was a non starter. I hope you can now re-evaluate 9/11, and get on with your life.

 

[Christophera]

Two Errors and A Distorted Diagram

Your 'following the engine through' theory is ridiculous.
The landing gear alone could not smash through 3 concrete walls and still have the energy to take out the perimeter columns.

1.) I did not say "The landing gear alone", I said that the gear followed the engine.

2.) I did not say it "took out" the perimeter columns. I said the opposite, that it stopped short of that.

Your diagram is inaccurate there is an animated .gif that has the impacts of both towers, I've lost the url. butthat shows accurately the entry points and angles which yours does not. WTC 1 left engine did not make it all the way through the core. It encountered the interior walls.

Again, you attempt to deny the existence of what is well docuemented by images of the demolition.

http://concretecore.741.com

Your concrete core theory is null, void. It was a non starter. I hope you can now re-evaluate 9/11, and get on with your life.

To salvage your credibility, try using evidence to support the core you do believe existed BEFORE trying to dismiss well evidenced statements.

 

[Christophera]

Seek An Education, And A Board That Carries Quotes

Nothing you post supports that I claimed there were "diagonal hallways." OMG! Yet you post unintelligble, unreferenced images.

Look at the angle of the photo in question, Einstein. It's looking diagonally through the building. As I've explained to you a number of times, this is from video, and as tha camera moves, so do your multiple "hallways" on each floor.

On edit I,ve figured out what you are trying to say.

Consider that hall openings on one core face can be seen through the core wall openings perpindicular and adjacent and that light can pass through them. duh. That must be WTC 2, it had many more openings.

 

[kevin]

Consider that hall openings on one core face can be seen through the core wall openings perpindicular and adjacent and that light can pass through them. duh. That must be WTC 2, it had many more openings.

Your claim is that the corridors are at 90 degrees to each other. If they are on the same floor (WTC 2 according to you) or on alternate (WTC 1 according to you) floors they won't apper in a photo from the corner. The only way to accomplish this is to have diagonal hallways. Neither building had that.

Further you've yet to explain how one could design elevator shafts that served consecutive floors per your WTC 1 floor plan claim.

Nor have you explained what retard would design a building with interior walls stacked on top of hallways. Calculate the size of the header needed for the ceiling on hallway on floor 1 and you'll see why.

Nor have you explained why the design plans call for concrete floors but do not mention specs for the concrete in the core.

Nor how you support floors with a core that doesn't exist yet.

 

[Mancman]

1.) I did not say "The landing gear alone", I said that the gear followed the engine.

2.) I did not say it "took out" the perimeter columns. I said the opposite, that it stopped short of that.

Your diagram is inaccurate there is an animated .gif that has the impacts of both towers, I've lost the url. butthat shows accurately the entry points and angles which yours does not. WTC 1 left engine did not make it all the way through the core. It encountered the interior walls.

Again, you attempt to deny the existence of what is well docuemented by images of the demolition.

http://concretecore.741.com



To salvage your credibility, try using evidence to support the core you do believe existed BEFORE trying to dismiss well evidenced statements.

Look at the trajectory the landing gear would have to take for your story to be true - it is not possible.

 

[Gravy]

Wrong again Chris. Do you realize that EVERY TIME you've pointed out a particular tower, you've gotten the wrong one? How many years have you been at this?

Now, finally, no more stalling: look at the angle that the large photo is taken from. Did the north tower have six diagonal hallways through the core on each floor? If you believe it did, show me a diagram of how that fit in with the elevators, restrooms, closets, etc.

If you agree that it didn't, then retract your claim that the core was concrete.

No more stalling. Answer the questions directly.

 

[Gravy]

Your claim is that the corridors are at 90 degrees to each other. If they are on the same floor (WTC 2 according to you) or on alternate (WTC 1 according to you) floors they won't apper in a photo from the corner. The only way to accomplish this is to have diagonal hallways. Neither building had that.

Further you've yet to explain how one could design elevator shafts that served consecutive floors per your WTC 1 floor plan claim.

Nor have you explained what retard would design a building with interior walls stacked on top of hallways. Calculate the size of the header needed for the ceiling on hallway on floor 1 and you'll see why.

Nor have you explained why the design plans call for concrete floors but do not mention specs for the concrete in the core.

Nor how you support floors with a core that doesn't exist yet.

Eminently sane questions, all.