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And the winner is...

espritch

Graduate Poster
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Joined
Jul 20, 2002
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So the cease fire is in place and appears to be holding...for now. Both sides have declared victory. If civilian body count is a measure of victory, Isreal deffinitly scored major points with (by some accounts) over 700 Lebanese civilians kills confirmed. By comparison, Hezbollah scored a pathetic 30 odd civilians.

On the other had, if victory is measured by achievement of military objectives, Isreal lost big time. Hezbollah wasn't destroyed, they retained their rockets, and they scored major propaganda points in the Arab world.

While it isn't clear who wone, it's pretty clear that the people of Lebanon lost in a big way. On NPR, they were telling how Hezbollah was passing out leaflets to returning refugees on their way back to the ruins of their homes congratulating them on their "great victory". It made me want to puke. Weren't these the same ******** who started the whole damn mess to begin with?

Nothing for it now but for both sides to go home, lick their wounds, and get ready for the inevitable next round.
 
The US has probably lost a lot too. Nice for the whole country to see that the one thing that unites the factions in Iraq is support of Hezbollah against Israel.
 
The civilians lost.

Neither side lost or gained anything significant and will no doubt do it all over again in a couple of years.
 
Cuddles said:
The civilians lost.

Neither side lost or gained anything significant and will no doubt do it all over again in a couple of years.
Click to expand...

or a few weeks...

Thousands of Israeli soldiers remain in southern Lebanon. Five brigades of the regular army are deployed on the ground.

IDF General Staff indicates that "Round Two" of hostilities could happen very soon because Israeli will be forced to act against the continued re-supply of missiles from Iran via Syria.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/752773.html
 
Hey Web, maybe Hezbollah will be forced to act against the continued re-supply of missiles from the USA via the UK?
Just a thought.

As to who won or lost? Well in purely military sense, that has to be judged by the stated aim of Israel when they launched their "offensive" and how successful they have been.
They didn`t achieve their stated aim which was to to destroy Hezbollah and get their squaddies back.
 
They didn`t achieve their stated aim which was to to destroy Hezbollah and get their squaddies back.
Click to expand...

The IDF is still very much in action. This war is not over, yet.


Where is your source that the stated aim was to 'destroy hezbollah' ? In fact, I recall quite a few declarations from the IDF Chief of Staff Halutz to the contrary.

As for getting the 'squaddies' back (Goldwasser and Regev), I understand that this aim has not been abandoned.

Jesse Jackson, where are you?
 
Web:
"The IDF is still very much in action. This war is not over, yet."

Yes, covert action in Lebanon trying to kidnap Hezbollah leaders in contravention of the ceasefire agreement! Another Olmert cockup! (How long do you think he`ll last web?)

Did I image all those interviews with Regev etc saying that Hezbollah had to be destroyed?
Here`s one of them:

quote:
Israel aims to destroy Hezbollah

The Israeli Government now says its aim in attacking Lebanon is to destroy Hezbollah, as well as secure the release of two of its soldiers captured by the militant group.

Israel's Army has begun a fifth day of attacks on targets in Lebanon, where its offensive has killed about 100 people.

A spokesman for the Army, Captain Yakov Dalal, says only legitimate sites are being targeted to stop Hezbollah from obtaining the missiles it has been firing into Israel.

"We are going to continue until one or two things happen," he said.

"We're trying to put Hezbollah out of business and for good.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200607/s1687756.htm

Bed time now, maybe tomorrow ok?
Goodnight.
 
demon said:
Web:
"The IDF is still very much in action. This war is not over, yet."

Demon:
"Yes, covert action in Lebanon trying to kidnap Hezbollah leaders in contravention of the ceasefire agreement! "
Click to expand...

Hezbollah is itself violating the cease-fire.
I have no doubt that Israel will continue to act to eliminate the leaders of Hezbollah, much the same as the USA continues to act to hunt down AlQueda operatives.


As for the headline of the ABC story you linked to, it was the headline writer who decided that the "IDF aims to destroy Hezbollah"

The IDF officer quoted in the article merely said :
"We're trying to put Hezbollah out of business and for good.'

Which is still, AFAIK, the central aim, and is embodied in the UNSCR 1701.

This thing ain't over yet, not by a longshot.
Olmert will not be facing any serious political pressure regarding the war, in the forseeable future, as far as I can see.

(Despite Uzi Benziman's snap analysis and his op-ed piece in Haaretz calling for resignations of Olmert, Halutz and Peretz).
 
Web, I just have to answer this although I`m long gone....

You say:
"Hezbollah is itself violating the cease-fire."

I take this to mean that you are repeating the Israeli story that Hezbollah are receiving weapons/rockets from Syria and that is why Israel have broken the ceasefire?

If that`s the case, it don`t wash mate.
I can`t put it any better than Juan Cole

quote:
But that makes no sense. Why would you send a special ops team into a village near Baalbak to stop truck shipments? You would just mount an air raid on the truck. You send in a team of men to capture someone."
 
Hey Web, maybe Hezbollah will be forced to act against the continued re-supply of missiles from the USA via the UK?
Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

And the last time I checked, 'you' were the only person going around with your pathetic "Israel is a terrorist state" making 'you' the only person that would see it as 'wrong' for the US to help out a country that is surrounded fanatics, hellbent on Israel's destruction.

Hell, even the UN hasn't declared Israel a terrorist state.

They didn`t achieve their stated aim which was to to destroy Hezbollah and get their squaddies back.
Click to expand...

No kidding. I was pretty sure a 'cease-fire' was put into effect. Guess you missed that too, along with the initial rocket attacks by Hezbollah upon Israeli cities. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
webfusion said:
Hezbollah is itself violating the cease-fire.
I have no doubt that Israel will continue to act to eliminate the leaders of Hezbollah, much the same as the USA continues to act to hunt down AlQueda operatives.
Click to expand...

Demon doesn't understand that.

His head is stuck so far into the sand, he 'think' or 'knows' that Israel 'is' the terrorist organization, therefore 'they' are to blame for 'everything', while Hezbollah has done 'nothing.'

Its hard to debate with illusioned people. :confused:
 
Azure said:
Indeed.

And the last time I checked, 'you' were the only person going around with your pathetic "Israel is a terrorist state" making 'you' the only person that would see it as 'wrong' for the US to help out a country that is surrounded fanatics, hellbent on Israel's destruction.

Hell, even the UN hasn't declared Israel a terrorist state.



No kidding. I was pretty sure a 'cease-fire' was put into effect. Guess you missed that too, along with the initial rocket attacks by Hezbollah upon Israeli cities. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

No, it is surrounded by countries it has mostly made peace deals with it. Lebanon was mostly at peace with it before, but that might have changed.
 
Azure:
"Demon doesn't understand that.
His head is stuck so far into the sand, he 'think' or 'knows' that Israel 'is' the terrorist organization, therefore 'they' are to blame for 'everything', while Hezbollah has done 'nothing.'

Hey Azure, Web will make up his own mind ok?
He doesn`t need a puppy like you yapping at his heels.
He might actually tell you that himself so stop ingratiating yourself ok? It`s embarressing.
 
a_unique_person said:
No, it is surrounded by countries it has mostly made peace deals with it. Lebanon was mostly at peace with it before, but that might have changed.
Click to expand...

I said it was surrounded by fanatics....HAMAS and Hezbollah, both hellbent to destroy Israel.

Lebanon shouldn't have let Hezbollah set up shop if they 'really' wanted peace with Israel.
 
demon said:
Hey Azure, Web will make up his own mind ok?
He doesn`t need a puppy like you yapping at his heels.
He might actually tell you that himself so stop ingratiating yourself ok? It`s embarressing.
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for you to dispute the fact that Hezbollah shot the initial rockets at Israel.

Any time soon would be fine. :rolleyes:
 
Azure said:
I'm still waiting for you to dispute the fact that Hezbollah shot the initial rockets at Israel.

Any time soon would be fine. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Demon has already done so -- he disputes it clearly in the Lebanon timeline thread...

Post #4

and

in post #7, demon asks for evidence of the rockets being shot at SHLOMI

and

in response to Azure saying how Demon's 'timeline' is wrong, Demon asks for evidence of Azure's version -- requesting for the third time in the thread for Azure (or anyone) to produce evidence -- and varwoche joins in that request.

and then after the Z_N and Azure postings of specific timelines, Demon indicates:
in post #22 So, let`s get one thing clear, there was no "special guest star" Hezbollah rockets fired at Israeli towns and civilians until AFTER the "crisis" in which Israel started bombing Lebanon.
Those who claim this on this forum (AmateurScientist among others) are dishing up to readers a blatent falsehood. It`s cheap Israeli propaganda and needs (to be) exposed.

And that thread continued, with Demon's various statements being challenged, and still awaiting clarification... (especially regarding his reference to a "backwards-timeline" of the Gaza kidnapping)

So, yes, he certainly did already dispute the rockets being launched by Hezbollah first.
I don't think much of his evidence, but he did dispute it.
 
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