Loose Change - Part IV

Status
Not open for further replies.
LOL, I thought I have and did. Motive, I quoted the PLAN you so quickly dismissed. Geesh, you didn't even read what I posted correctly at all.


Please correct me if I am wrong...

Your claim is the US government orchestrated 9/11 so they could justify a war (invading Afghanistan) which allowed them to restrict civil liberties and spend more money on defence research...yes?

Then they invaded Iraq so they could gain lots of oil.

Okay, now what? Why do they want lots of oil and restricted civil liberties? What is their super objective?


Just proves it. That is such a rediculous question that it doesn't merit a response because you refuse to READ WHAT I SAID. We were against it BEFORE we went to WAR. It is the WAR DECLARATION that is the problem, the EXCUSE to rob us of rights that was tied to 9/11.

You said (my bolding):

What if there was NO real terrorism to go to war over, what if it hadn't changed from what it was before 9/11?

Many people would argue that the US (and the rest of the world) did not treat terrorism seriously enough Pre 9/11. Some people would argue the west STILL doesn't treat the threat seriously.


And just because there is a ruling doesn't mean they are not still doing it, and have done it before and will continue to do it. It appears that the administration doesn't necessarily adhere to the law when it was RULED against in 1972 for the same acts.


If this is all true, 9/11 is rather irrelevant, isn't it?



You also failed to refer to the report in my post that directly refers to the Loose Change Documentary. The one calling for a new Pearl Harbor. But I guess all those reference to the MOVIE must not be a reference CAUSE YOU DON'T READ THEM.

I didn't respond to the PNAC point because it is not, IMHO worth bothering to respond to. There are others here who will no doubt give a far more extensive rebuttal than I could anyway.

I did, however, respond to your Operaiton Northwoods reference.

However these were only brought up as supporting evidence in your non-Loose Change orientated discussion. I am only interested in discussing Loose Change in this thread. If you wish to discuss violation of civil liberties or other political issues there are plenty of people in the politics forum who will eagerly contribute.



I don't know what you want, I refer to the movie and you ignor the references. I give movations you and ignor them.

Repect? How can I give you repect when you trashed me with such a stupid question and totally ignored all my reference TO THE MOVIE when you stated and I quote:

Do you ever intend to discuss any aspects of the crocumentary "Loose Change"?

That would make it look like to anyone who didn't read my post in it's entirety that I didn't even refer to the movie which is NOT true at all.


No, it would make it look like you didn't discuss the film. Which you didn't. I will repeat, do you intend to discuss Loose Change? Not refer to, not allude to, not reference. Discuss. That means the subject of your post is Loose Change itself.


It is a misleading question that actually insults my intelligence. I am trying to bring up specific parts of the movie and connect them to 9/11

I can't see how it could be seen as an insult. I simply want to know if you intend to discuss Loose Change? Do you? Yes or no?

The subject of your thread was the US government's power trip post 9/11. The subject of Loose Change is the 9/11 attacks. I am not interested in discussion the government's power trip post 9/11 in this thread. I am interested in discussing Loose Change (other theories on the September 11 attacks themselves are also acceptable).

Obviously it is inevitable that the US government's actions post 9/11 will be referred to and referenced in the process of discussing the September 11 attacks. This is understandable. But if you wish to primarily discuss that subject matter, you are posting in entirely the wrong forum.

-Andrew
 
Um, no Mr. "I built computers and know more about software than anyone", the title of this thread is Loose Change - Part IV. THe title of this SUBFORUM is conspiracy theories.

But knowing that would require reading, rather than ego-stroking.

Hello you have stated a BLATANT LIE on here, you quoted me saying that I said, "....and know more about sotware than anyone?" Please for us people who can't read, show us the post I made that says that. You see I don't recall ever saying that, and it disturbs me greatly that you quoted something that I don't ever recall THINKING alone posted on this forum.

And again you have ignored all my references to the movie and what I was refering to was how I have used the subtitle and in reference to the movie in question.

Now you can't even twist what I say, you must now just make it up. You must work for the government, only logical explaination I can come up with and anyone who can go back and read my posts will see I never said that. Again you insult or try to insult my intelligence but I know the truth, and I actuall don't think I know everything about software, far from it. so why not ask me what I think instead of telling me what I said, when I didn't say that at all? Oh maybe that is what you feel, but say that, don't lie to everyone and quote me, quote yourself.

If this is the best of this forum has then it is in really bad shape.

Quotes which are a OUT and OUT LIE could give someone just getting in on this a really bad idea about me. But maybe that was your intention?
 
Now who is making fun of the dead? Sick joke.

And by the way, the title of this Thread and I copied and paste it from above is:

that's the title of the forum, not the thread. the thread title is "Loose Change - Part IV".

For a small fee I can teach you to actually use a computer.
 
Apparently, sarcasm is not easily recognized, nor exaggeration for comedic effect.

*sigh*

You, with your high intelligence, still were unable to understand the difference between a thread and a forum.

I don't have to try to give anyone a bad opinion of you. You've done a good job of that already :)

By the way, I do work for the government..one weekend a month, two weeks every year (with the exception of two years getting my a$$ shot at from 2003-2004, and in 2005).
 
By the way, I do work for the government..one weekend a month, two weeks every year (with the exception of two years getting my a$$ shot at from 2003-2004, and in 2005).


Is that standard Reserve service in the US?

(I am guessing Reserve... unless it's National Guard? I never had the difference between them explained to me...:confused: )

-Andrew
 
Well that was not the way you used it, and you were correcting yourself if you read the post you made and there was no mention of the movie at all.

:confused:

I'm pretty good with the English language, but you've lost me.

-Andrew
 
By the way, I do work for the government..one weekend a month, two weeks every year (with the exception of two years getting my a$$ shot at from 2003-2004, and in 2005).


I tried to join the reserves once. They said I was too big and had to lose weight :(
 
Apparently, sarcasm is not easily recognized, nor exaggeration for comedic effect.

Quoting someone isn't funny when it isn't true, it gives out FALSE information. And I didn't see anything funny or comedic in what you said.
You could have said it in many ways that would possibly be an attempt to conform to what you are saying now, but there was no JOKING or JK put at the end. It was a QUOTE and UNQUOTE plain and simple.

And I do read sarcasm, that wasn't the problem, and exaggeration is another word for LIE. And again if are you a comedian, don't they have a board for that? But don't give up your day job.
 
Is that standard Reserve service in the US?

(I am guessing Reserve... unless it's National Guard? I never had the difference between them explained to me...:confused: )

-Andrew

Yep. You do one weekend a month, and a two week stretch sometime during the year (usually summer).

Reserves and Guard pretty much follow the same schedules and do things in a similar manner. The difference is the NAtional Guard is state-controlled, while the Reserves is Federal. For NG soldiers, the Governer of the state is (typically) the Commander-In-Chief. NG troops can only be called up for federal service if the governer of the state authorizes it.

I tried to join the reserves once. They said I was too big and had to lose weight :(

Yeah, they have fairly strict weight standards. I'm actually over my weight (for my height), but it's because of muscle mass. My body fat is between 15% and 20%...a bit high, but not too bad. If you are overweight, they go by body fat percentage. I don't know if they'll do body fat calcs for entering, though, I think only after you're in.
 
Yep. You do one weekend a month, and a two week stretch sometime during the year (usually summer).


You guys do quite a bit more than us. Our minimum is 20 days a year... although I am told most of the officers do a minimum of 70 days a year, and that doesn't include additional training courses (voluntary).


Reserves and Guard pretty much follow the same schedules and do things in a similar manner. The difference is the NAtional Guard is state-controlled, while the Reserves is Federal.


Cool. I thought it was something like that. Thanks for clarifying.

-Andrew
 
You know, I think like most truthers you are so vastly overrating your own intelligence you cant see the forest for the trees.
I personally think you are just a very bitter man. You feel Gates got the millions you rightly deserve and probably lost some judgements in court so now the judicial system and govt are conspiring against you in your mind.
And that's believing you did actually do what you claim.
I have my doubts especially since you threw I knew Atta out there.
IF you did'nt know him and only met him I'm curious to how?
Were you introduced to him? If not how do you know it was him?
Ahhh, I know, he was also being setup by the govt and told you huh?
As others have pointed out if you were that important why kidnap your mechanic and psychologist? Why not just kidnap you?
What the hell kinda sense does that make?
This is just like a movie plot. You know CIA agents, knew one of the terrorists, are being stalked by govt etc.,etc.

Unbelievable.
 
A few comments, Sir Knight.
Who is making money off of the WAR over there?
Directly, those who sell gas, food, services, maintenance contracts, ammunition, shipping services, and spare parts to the US Military and other nation building efforts in Iraq.

Aside: Defense contracting scams were a big deal in WW II as well. Back in the banana wars, Smedley Butler came to the conclusion that he was fighting for a bunch of New York bankers, and it made him somewhat bitter. See his "War is a Racket" essay. This dynamic is not new, nor is it news. It is part and parcel the influence brokering in Washington, and elsewhere.

Indirectly, the instabiilty in the World's Gas Pump has helped drive up the price of crude, along with other market forces, which means anyone selling gas, such as Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, the Sultan of Brunei, or any Canadian oil concern is pulling in some nice returns without any additional investment thanks to market fluctuations.

Add to that the "nicely orchestrated" hurricane :rolleyes: or two last fall which damaged US refinery capacity a bit, and you have a price increase with modest expense increase. So, are those gents responsible for the attacks as well? Is it possible that an opportunity was seized upon? But wait, some companies lost a bunch of infrastructure in the Gulf of Mexico, and lost production, so they had to eat some red ink. Over all, the global cost increase benefitted anyone pumping oil.

I think that another party making money are media organs -- if it bleeds it leads -- and perhaps they can sell their ad spots at a higher premium. Or not. Don't have any figures in front of me.

Also making money are those who invested in gold, since its price has roughly tripled since 2000.
the GOV is run by powerful people, it isn't for the people and by the people anymore.
I don't completely disagree with you there, but this problem wasn't invented by the GW Bush administration. It goes back to the 16th Amendment where Federal Income tax became a reality, followed by the welfare state induced by the Great Depression, then FDR's creation of a warfare state in 1940. (The Draft and other initial moves that became the War Production Board.) Things scaled up unevenly.

The US turned into a genuine world power, which some folks now call "empire" and that makes for a very different environment than pre WW I politically, in both domestic and foreign matters. The current president wasn't the first to play in that new role. FDR set the Imperial, globalist standard, following in Woodrow Wilson's internationalist footsteps. Each successor has had to deal with that role, with varying results.

How does all that make GW Bush and his cronies party to attack on New York and the Pentagon? It doesn't. Is it possible that some folks had foreknowledge of the attacks? Yes. Do you think any of them would admit it now? I don't. How else does one prove a conspiracy? It's tough in court, though it can be done, and it usually takes insider information.

As to 9-11, loopholes in security have been around for some years, as have the lax and evadable immigration policies. All an enemy needed to do was try to be as clever as possible, and pull off the stunt they did. Given thirty years of airline policy that dictated "play along, get the plane on the ground, and let the experts negotiate with hijackers" a surprise attack occurred. Check under "principles of war" and you will find "surprise" as a standard method where achievable. Those hijackers chose to change the rules of the game. I guess from their perspective, if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying. Per earlier comments with John, the habit of suicide car and boat attacks was already established. A plane was just a bigger, slightly more complex vehicle for delivering a standard attack mode by a particularly dedicated group of people.
If so why weren't the people asked to give up the rights of privacy instead of it just being taken away?
This is a constitutional republic we are talking about. Check Political Theory 101 for how a constitutional republic works, and what its shortcomings can be. The duly elected representatives of the people either didn't hear from the people on the Patriot Act, heard from them and mostly heard "Baaaa, Baaa," or chose to act and see if they were called on it. So far, there is some dissent. The active opposition to GWB and friends playing fast and loose with FISA, and with "signing statements," have garnered political opposition. This battle is not over. Keep writing to your friends, and Senators, and Congressmen, and keep the pressure on. That is what you can do. The Navy lawyer who led the charge on challenging the Gitmo method had what motive, I ask you? Rule of law?
And so much of what I was posted was just ignored. No one wants to believe it. I don't either, but that doesn't change the facts what certain people can do with their power.
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely. As to what you wrote, and credibility, it is poorly structured, filled with emotion, and unfocused.

If you stick to the topic of this thread, instead of ranging all over the map with your scattergun prose, you'll find some decent discussion here.

DR
 
A thought just occured to me.
Is this Johndoexx?

Only now instead of just a pilot he's being chased by the govt?
 
Please correct me if I am wrong...

Your claim is the US government orchestrated 9/11 so they could justify a war (invading Afghanistan) which allowed them to restrict civil liberties and spend more money on defence research...yes?

NO NOT AT ALL, SPENDING MONEY ON MILITARY BUILDING A BIGGER BETTER MILITARY LIKE WAS REFERRED TO IN THE MOVIE

Then they invaded Iraq so they could gain lots of oil.

Okay, now what? Why do they want lots of oil and restricted civil liberties? What is their super objective?

GAIN CONTROL, AND THEY WILL WANT EVEN MORE CONTROL. AND I AM CONCERNED MORE AT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE SO FAR THAN WHAT THEY WILL DO, CAUSE SOONER OR LATER IT WON'T MATTER.

You said (my bolding):
What if there was NO real terrorism to go to war over, what if it hadn't changed from what it was before 9/11?

YOU TOOK OUT ONLY ONE PART OF WHAT I SAID, THE IMPORTANT PART "TO GO TO WAR OVER" IT WASN'T ALL THAT BAD FOR US, WE NEEDED SOMETHING WORSE TO HAPPEN TO GIVE REAL CAUSE TO GO TO WAR. AMD THE SECOND SENTENCE REFERS TO TERRORISM BEFORE 9/11.

SO WHY ASK ME IF I DONT THINK THERE IS ANY TERRORISM?

Many people would argue that the US (and the rest of the world) did not treat terrorism seriously enough Pre 9/11. Some people would argue the west STILL doesn't treat the threat seriously.

If this is all true, 9/11 is rather irrelevant, isn't it?

NO NOT AT ALL, BECAUSE THE POWERS THAT BE HAD TO SHOCK THE PEOPLE INTO FEARING THINGS GREATLY FOR THEM TO GRAB POWER WITHOUT TOO MANY OBJECTIONS. IT IS LIKE "MARTIAL LAW", THERE MUST BE CONDITIONS THE WARRANT IT. THERE WEREN'T SO THEY WERE MADE UP JUST LIKE IT WAS STATED IN THE ONE REPORT I REFERRED TO IN THE MOVIE, WHICH EVERYONE KEEPS IGNORING LIKE I DIDN'T SAY IT OR REFER TO IT. IT IS ABOUT THE MOVIE.

I didn't respond to the PNAC point because it is not, IMHO worth bothering to respond to. There are others here who will no doubt give a far more extensive rebuttal than I could anyway.

I did, however, respond to your Operaiton Northwoods reference.

However these were only brought up as supporting evidence in your non-Loose Change orientated discussion. I am only interested in discussing Loose Change in this thread. If you wish to discuss violation of civil liberties or other political issues there are plenty of people in the politics forum who will eagerly contribute.

No, it would make it look like you didn't discuss the film. Which you didn't. I will repeat, do you intend to discuss Loose Change? Not refer to, not allude to, not reference. Discuss. That means the subject of your post is Loose Change itself.

OK, BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID I AM LIMITED TO SAYING WHAT I THINK OR FEEL ABOUT THE MOVIE. I CAN'T DISCUSS RELATED THINGS THAT ARE ATTACHED TO THE MOVIE IN AN INDIRECT MANNER OR A TANGENT?
NOTHING THAT WOULD SUPPORT THE PREMISE OF THE MOVIE, OR SUPPORT THE MOTIVES MENTIONED IN THE MOVIE ETC?

IT APPEARS ALL YOU LET ME SAY IS THAT I EITHER AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THE MOVIE. WELL IT ISN'T THAT SIMPLE AS THERE ARE PARTS I CAN DEFINITELY AGREE WITH AND SOME PARTS I DONT' HAVE TO AGREE WITH OR WON'T FOR WHAT EVER REASONS.

FOR WHAT I CAN DETERMINE THE MOVIE WHICH I HAVE SEEN IT SEVERAL TIMES NOW, DISCUSSES ALL KINDS OF THINGS AND SHOWS VIDEOS OF THINGS, DOCUMENTS ETC. SO IN REFERRING TO THOSE DOCUMENTS AND THEN RELATING THEM TO CURRENT EVENTS I AM NOT DISCUSSING THE MOVIE?

AND YOU KNOW I HAVE MY FIRST POST WHICH SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSED AND QUOTED SOMEONE THAT HAD POSTED A PICTURE ABOUT THE PENTAGON ALONG WITH A STATEMENT REFERRING TO THE MOVIE LOOSE CHANGE, AND NO ONE HAS EVEN BOTHERED TO RESPOND TO THAT IN SPECIFIC, JUST THAT SOMEONE ELSE HAD REBUTTED IT SOMEWHERE ELSE WITH NO REFERENCE LINK OR ANYTHING ELSE.

BUT I HAVE SEEN TONS OF THINGS POSTED ON HERE THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOOSE CHANGE BUT NO ONE IS JUMPING ON THEIR ASS ABOUT IT. HEY CHECK OUT THE POSTS SEE FOR YOURSELF, BUT NO ONE HAS JUMPED ON THEM ONCE FOR POSTING SOMETHING THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOOSE CHANGE.

SO I GUESS I AM JUST THE LUCKY ONE........

AND TO SUM UP EVERYTHING YOU SAID I WILL USE A REAL QUOTE FROM YOU:

"No, it would make it look like you didn't discuss the film. Which you didn't"

WELL YOU OBIVOUSLY HAVE NOT READ MY FIRST POST OR SEVERAL OF OTHERS I HAVE POSTED. BECAUSE WHAT YOU HAVE SAID ABOVEE IS A TOTAL LIE. YOU ARE NOT REFERRING TO ONE POST BUT HAVE SAID IT LIKE IT WAS AN ABSOLUTE FACT. I HAVE TALKED SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE MOVIE, PICTURES/SCENES AND VARIOUS PARTS OF IT. FOR THAT QUOTE FROM YOU IS NOTHING MORE THAN YOU STATING A BLANTANT LIE.

YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO USE SMOKE AND MIRRORS TO MAKE ME LOOK LIKE SOMETIHNG I AM NOT. YOU HAVE NO INTEREST IN THE IMPORTANCE OF THE MOVIE OR IF THERE IS ANY TRUTH TO IT AT ALL.

AND ONE FINAL NOTE WHERE YOU SAY WHEN REFERRING TO MY STATEMENT THE THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T NECESSARILY LISTEN TO THE LAWS AND I QUOTE:

If this is all true, 9/11 is rather irrelevant, isn't it?

THAT SOUNDS LIKE IT IS COMING FROM THE GOVERNMENT ITSELF.
BECAUSE, IF 9/11 GIVES THEM AN EXCUSE WHICH A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL ACCEPT IT IS NOT IRREVELANT. AND I THINK THAT CONCLUSION IS THE MOST STUPID THING I HAVE SEEN ON THIS SITE YET.

EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID HAS TO DO WITH 9/11 ONE WAY OR ANOTHER AND THE MOVIE LOOSE CHANGE TIES IN WITH IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

THE GOVERNMENT HAS ALWAYS USED COVER STORIES, ALWAYS LIED TO COVER UP THE TRUTH, BUT MAYBE IT WASN'T THE TWIN TOWERS THAT WENT DOWN BUT MAYBE IT WAS A WEATHER BALLON. IT REALLY IS AMAZING THAT THE GOVERNMENT CAN TELL US ONE THING ONE DAY, AND WE BELIEVE IT, AND THEN THEY WILL TELL US SOMETHING DIFFERENT THE NEXT DAY AND WE WILL BELIEVE IT, EVEN WHEN THE LATTER DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS THE FIRST THING THEY SAY. JUST LIKE IN THE MOVIE WHERE THE ONE GOVERNMENT GUY STATES "THE MISSLE HIT THE BUILDING".

I SURE WISH SOMETIMES I COULD GO LIVE IN A BUBBLE LIKE A LOT OF YOU OUT THERE.
 
Last edited:
Damn that President Bush for lowering my taxes and trying to stop terrorism!
 
Last edited:
Thanks but if you check my posts most of them have been defending attacks on me with little focus on anything important that I have said. you are most probably the first that has said anything intelletually in a decent detailed manner. I have wanted to stay on point but if you have lived my life for the past couple of years you would find it hard to not be emotional about some of this stuff. I have not lied about one thing on here, avoided things for good reason, but too much smoke and mirrors for the most part played out by others. I really appreciate what you have said in DETAIL as that was exactly what I was referring to. But as far as the red ink, well everyone of the oil companies registered monster profits, I didn't see any company loosing money for any reason. All I saw in the news and on the internet was PROFITS in the BILLIONS. Oh, maybe they didn't make as much as they could, boo hoo. I am not worried about that one bit.

But again thanks sincerely.......

Sir Knight
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom