9/11: FDNY Member Says "Definitely" Bombs in Towers?

[Gravy]

These heros, who lost a lot of friends that, deserve our respect.
Ignoring or rejecting out of hand what they said about 9-11 would be disrespectful.

Who has disrespected them? The only people I've seen do that are the 9/11 deniers who gather at Ground Zero each weekend. Some of them, including their leader, claim that the FDNY was "in on it."

Who has ignored or rejected the firefighters' reports? No one on the debunking side, that I've seen. However, I have seen the deniers consistently misquote, misrepresent, and omit these accounts. That's disrespecful and dishonest.

 

[Christopher7]

Thus

How so?

I heard what sounded like thunder JUST BEFORE the collaps then popping as the tower fell. I had my radio scanner and there were reports of EXPLOSIONS within the complex.

Meny eye whitnesses report hearing explosions and there are meny TV news clips of people saying they heard explosions.

Either we have to accept that there WERE EXPLOSIONS or say 'these people don't know what they are talking about"

In CD's, there are some loud explosions and a lot of little ones.
The order and intensity are unique to each building and desired result.

 

[gumboot]

Either we have to accept that there WERE EXPLOSIONS or say 'these people don't know what they are talking about"

Firstly, "explosion" does not equal "explosives".

Secondly, I would wager that none of these eye witnesses had ever seen a steel skyscraper totally collapse before, and most (if not all) had probably never heard demolition explosives before.

So yes, I think it would be safe to say most of them didn't know what they were talking about.

-Andrew

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Things explode inside burning buildings, Chris.

I threw a full coke can into a firepit at a city park once as a gag. There was a loud BANG and I think a lady a couple picnic tables down soiled herself. My friends and I thought of playing dumb, but the 25 foot column of orange smoke kinda gave us away and we got yelled at by the park caretakers.

Are you going to tell me that the MIB's performed a controlled demolition on my can of coke to embarrass me?

 

[Pardalis]

I heard what sounded like thunder JUST BEFORE the collaps then popping as the tower fell. I had my radio scanner and there were reports of EXPLOSIONS within the complex.

Were you on the scene that day?

What do you mean by "I had my radio scanner"? did you intercept radio from the fire department that day?

Were these transmissions before the towers fell?

ETA: In other words, care to elaborate?

 

[Christopher7]

Who has disrespected them? The only people I've seen do that are the 9/11 deniers who gather at Ground Zero each weekend. Some of them, including their leader, claim that the FDNY was "in on it."

Either you believe in free speach or you don't.

Who has ignored or rejected the firefighters' reports? No one on the debunking side, that I've seen. However, I have seen the deniers consistently misquote, misrepresent, and omit these accounts. That's disrespecful and dishonest.

I agree, to misrepresent is wrong.
Please don't paint all 'Truthers' with the same brush. There are jerks in every group.

 

[Christopher7]

Pardalis: I was quoting post 36 (Gravy)

 

[Pardalis]

Ah, you could use these "" you know...

So it's also possible that thunder caused the collapse?

 

[Pardalis]

I heard what sounded like thunder JUST BEFORE the collaps then popping as the tower fell. I had my radio scanner and there were reports of EXPLOSIONS within the complex.

Meny eye whitnesses report hearing explosions and there are meny TV news clips of people saying they heard explosions.

Either we have to accept that there WERE EXPLOSIONS or say 'these people don't know what they are talking about"

In CD's, there are some loud explosions and a lot of little ones.
The order and intensity are unique to each building and desired result.

I agree, to misrepresent is wrong.

Pardalis: I was quoting post 36 (Gravy)

So the true statement was the that I heard Explosions not bombs as I couldn't tell what the sounds were as I was blocks away and can not confirm what the noise was. As I was aproaching City Hall the North Tower began the collapse I heard what sounded like thunder just prior to the collapse then the Popping as the tower fell. I had my radio scanner and there were reports of explsions within the conplex over the PD and PAPD frequencies. As I made my way closer I could pick up on the FD Handie Talkie frequencies and it sounded like hell. No one new what the was going to happen next but when the second tower began its fall there were what sounded like loud popping coming from the tower as well as a sucking sound like reveres air pressure.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I agree, to misrepresent is wrong.
Please don't paint all 'Truthers' with the same brush. There are jerks in every group.

So you accept and support the testimonies of Captain Christopher Boyle and Deputy Chief Peter Hayden as to the true condition of WTC7 on 9-11?

 

[Christopher7]

Sword, Gravy: MarkyX wrote their comments off as 'kneejerk' and Gumboot just said 'i think it would be safe to say most of them didn't know what they were talking about'

Sword: I believe the firemen who saw the bulge, the damage to the south side, and thought the building was going to come down.

Gumboot: explosions don't = explosives but it's certally a strong possibility, especially since there were NO FIRES anywhere in the building EXCEPT WHERE THE PLANES HIT.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

So you believe then that WTC7 was not demolished intentionally?

 

[gumboot]

Gumboot: explosions don't = explosives but it's certally a strong possibility, especially since there were NO FIRES anywhere in the building EXCEPT WHERE THE PLANES HIT.

It's only a strong possibility if there's a strong liklihood of explosives being present. Since there isn't, it's not a strong possibility.

In the examples on this page do you consider explosives to be a "strong possibility"?

especially since there were NO FIRES anywhere in the building EXCEPT WHERE THE PLANES HIT.

I'm not sure where you're going with this. "explosion" does not equal "fire" any more than it equals "explosives".

In addition, what is your collaborating evidence that there "were NO FIRES anywhere in the building EXCEPT WHERE THE PLANES HIT"?

According to the eyewitnesses jet fuel caused fires and fire damage on a multitude of floors via the elevator shafts (firemen saw people on fire in the lobby, for example). In addition the fire spread as it burned. A short time prior to collapse, the NYPD helicopter reported that the roof of the North Tower was "glowing red hot".

-Andrew

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

A short time prior to collapse, the NYPD helicopter reported that the roof of the North Tower was "glowing red hot".

That sounds like great debunking ammo for those who complain that the fires weren't hot enough. Where did you see that quote, Gumboot?

 

[Gravy]

Sword, Gravy: MarkyX wrote their comments off as 'kneejerk' and Gumboot just said 'i think it would be safe to say most of them didn't know what they were talking about'

Sword: I believe the firemen who saw the bulge, the damage to the south side, and thought the building was going to come down.

Gumboot: explosions don't = explosives but it's certally a strong possibility, especially since there were NO FIRES anywhere in the building EXCEPT WHERE THE PLANES HIT.

I didn't see MarkyX's quote. "Kneejerk," while it has perjorative connotations, means "reflexive." I use the example of driving on the highway when an 18-wheeler's tire blew out right next to me. I described this as like a cannon going off in my ear, although no cannons were involved. It's a common metaphor. I've certainly used "like a bomb going off" many times, although I have never heard a bomb go off in person.

This is gumboot's full quote:

Firstly, "explosion" does not equal "explosives".

Secondly, I would wager that none of these eye witnesses had ever seen a steel skyscraper totally collapse before, and most (if not all) had probably never heard demolition explosives before.

So yes, I think it would be safe to say most of them didn't know what they were talking about.

How do you disagree?

 

[Gravy]

Gumboot: explosions don't = explosives but it's certally a strong possibility, especially since there were NO FIRES anywhere in the building EXCEPT WHERE THE PLANES HIT.

I beg you to do your homework.

 

[The_Fire]

Things doesn't need flames to explode. Exposure to massive heat over a prolonged period of time can do it. Which is the reson why leaving an aerosol can in direct sunlight is an extremely bad idea unless you want it to blow. With a mighty impressive bang at that.

Now combine what Gumboot just said with various containers under pressure including, but not limited to: Fire extinguishers, deos, hairspray, aircondition, fueltanks (which also explodes when put under enough heat), various glass and stone surfaces (yes, they can explode, or rather crack, rather noisyly) and you have a wealth of explosions going off WITHOUT a demolition/explosives charge being involved.

 

[Gravy]

That sounds like great debunking ammo for those who complain that the fires weren't hot enough. Where did you see that quote, Gumboot?

Here's one source for a quote from NYPD heli units. Unfortunately, the report never made it to the rescue workers.

Federal engineering investigators studying the destruction of the World Trade Center's twin towers on Sept. 11 said New York Police Department aviation units reported an inward bowing of the buildings' columns in the minutes before they collapsed, a signal they were about to fall.

And another

In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m.

But emergency responders inside the tower never got the order to evacuate due to faulty communications equipment and garbled lines of command, investigators with the National Institute of Standards and Technology said in its second interim report on the collapse's causes.

Police, Firemen and Civilians Saw Warning Signs of Collapse of the Twin Towers on September 11th 2001

Chief Callan told New York City Fire Marshal Michael Starace, "Approximately 40 minutes after I arrived in the lobby, I made a decision that the building was no longer safe. And that was based on the conditions in the lobby, large pieces of plaster falling, all the 20 foot high glass panels on the exterior of the lobby were breaking. There was obvious movement of the building, and that was the reason on the handy talky I gave the order for all Fire Department units to leave the north tower.

(bolding mine)

 

[gumboot]

Now combine what Gumboot just said with various containers under pressure including, but not limited to: Fire extinguishers, deos, hairspray, aircondition, fueltanks (which also explodes when put under enough heat), various glass and stone surfaces (yes, they can explode, or rather crack, rather noisyly) and you have a wealth of explosions going off WITHOUT a demolition/explosives charge being involved.

Not to mention the tubes in a computer monitor make one heck of a bang sometimes when they implode... and there were a LOT of computer monitors in the WTC. (I'm sure they weren't all LCD).

-Andrew

 

[The_Fire]

Not to mention the tubes in a computer monitor make one heck of a bang sometimes when they implode... and there were a LOT of computer monitors in the WTC. (I'm sure they weren't all LCD).

-Andrew

oh yeah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqJX06h_-vY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnwiMaLtMi0

ETA: What a bunch of [rule 8]