Questions About Money Pens

[Beady]

Sweet Jesus! All I wanted was an answer to whether the Secret Service had an actual opinion on these pens! Instead of any kind of knowledgable answer, or even an "I don't know," I get supposition, assumption and speculation based on god-knows-what.

drkitten, you were the one who said they have an opinion. Prove it.

ponderingturtle, you're the one who says the SS has a goal to educate the public, but that correcting widespread public misconceptions is not part of education. Justify both elements.

 

[drkitten]

drkitten, you were the one who said they have an opinion. Prove it.

Beady, go take a flying [rule 8] up a [rule 8], and when you get to the top, [rule 8] yourself in the [rule 8] with a [rule 8] [rule 8].

And then go get stuffed.

You asked if they had an opinion.

I answered. They have one. I neither know nor care whether they have a published policy document on the question, because my interest was purely forensic.

If you don't like my answer, then phone them yourself. Call a lawyer and file a FOIA request. Write your Senator and raise hell. File suit and subpoena the director for deposition. At the moment, I won't even bother to open the [rule 8] phone book to give you a number to call.

Have it your way. I didn't bother to ask a secret service agent about this. I don't know any secret service agents. There is no such thing as the secret service. Counterfeiting is not an issue, because U.S Currency is impossible to counterfeit. The money pen is actually a very small radio transceiver so that the black helicopters can track you in your sleep unless you line your hat with aluminium foil. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.

 

[rjh01]

I've got a few Aussie bills. I keep them in a fire safe, along with some European currency and some Saddam-period Iraqui currency. In the event of a fire the paper stuff will probably survive, but the Aussie money may well melt beyond recognition.

I just burnt $5 for you. And a piece of paper. It was easier to burn the paper than melt the money. So if you lose the Australian money you are likely to lose the paper money as well.

Also what happens to money that you throw in the washing machine? If it is Australian money it gets clean and a little wet. What happens to USA money? Torn to shreds?

Let us just hope that sometime soon everyone works out that they have been conned into buying and using the useless pens. Then they start to question all the other rubbish they have been taught . I am an optimist.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Beady,
JR in the Dec 3 2004 issue:
"The U.S. Secret Service has the awesome responsibility, among other things, of protecting us from counterfeit currency. They tell us that there is more bogus money in circulation now, than at any previous period in history. This is something we should all be concerned about, right? I contacted a U.S. Secret Service inspector and asked his official opinion about this device. "Does it work as advertised?" I asked him. "It is not dependable," he responded, after referring to a handy manual. "Not dependable, like, 100 percent not dependable?" I asked. "You might say that," he said. You see, Federal officials never use "yes" or "no" to answer any question professionally."

Swiss Skeptic posted links to the above back on page one of this exchange. Could the Amazing one make a mistake? Of course, but he's under so much scrutiny that if he says it's a hot day, forty-seven people will go to global weather websites just in the hopes that they've caught out the master skeptic! I think we'd have heard back from someone if the conversation he relates wasn't true.

The absence of evidence IS sometimes evidence. The Secret Service has several areas on their website advising how to detect counterfeit bills, and no where is the famous pen mentioned.

 

[tsg]

Here's my take on it:

The US Secret Service guide to detecting counterfeit currency doesn't mention the detector pens at all. Whether this is significant or not is debatable, but I would think that if they worked they would say something about it. But I could be wrong.

Dri-Mark, a manufacturer of the pens, says:

IMPORTANT: While no method of counterfeit detection is perfect, the SMART MONEY™ is an excellent deterrent to the passing of counterfeit U.S. currency and will detect a great majority of false bills. We recommend this product be used in conjunction with other detection methods. The SMART MONEY™ will not detect any series printed before 1959.

If the great majority of false bills are printed on starch-laden paper, then this statement may well be true. But cotton fiber paper which, to my knowledge, will pass the test, can be bought for under $20 for 100 sheets, and the only data I can find with admittedly very limited digging says that computer generated bills accounted for less than half of all counterfeit bills in 2000 (here).

The problem I see is that the pens are being used instead of, rather than in addition to, other detection methods. Sites like HowStuffWorks.com stress that the cashier needs no training to use the pen and

"All of these [security] features are nice, but no store clerk is going to stand and hold each $20 bill he or she receives up to the light to check for a security strip! It takes too long and it is not a flattering pose to strike...

and

Detection pens are easy to use and require no training. A clerk at a cash register simply uses their counterfeit detector pen to put a small mark on the bill. If the bill is counterfeit and the paper is wood-based, the iodine in the pen solution will react with the starch and leave a dark brown or black mark. If the bill is authentic and the paper is fiber-based, there won't be any starch and the pen will not leave a mark.[emphasis mine]

This statement should actually read "If the bill is authentic or the paper is fiber based..." or, rather, just "if the paper is fiber based..."

And, of course, I have found nothing about the rate of false positives caused by genuine bills being contaminated with starch (with or without Randi's help ).

 

[ponderingturtle]

I just burnt $5 for you. And a piece of paper. It was easier to burn the paper than melt the money. So if you lose the Australian money you are likely to lose the paper money as well.

Also what happens to money that you throw in the washing machine? If it is Australian money it gets clean and a little wet. What happens to USA money? Torn to shreds?

No but it can result in them failing to pass the pen test. US money is printed on very high quality cotton paper, so it would be a bit different form a piece of ordianry paper.

 

[ponderingturtle]

This statement should actually read "If the bill is authentic or the paper is fiber based..." or, rather, just "if the paper is fiber based..."

And, of course, I have found nothing about the rate of false positives caused by genuine bills being contaminated with starch (with or without Randi's help ).

They also forgot "and has not been contaminated by starch, or if not fiber based has been sprayed with hair spray or..."

These things might work as well as a lie detector but are certainly no more accurate in terms of false negatives or positives than those.

It does make me want to spray legitimate money with a starch spray though

 

[burrahobbit]

Whew! What a scary thread!

I think I will stick to credit cards in the US. A South Asian passing a starch contaminated bill- Hell I may get sent to Gitmo!!!

We live in nervous times.

FYI- The biggest producer of counterfeit US$ is lil ol Kim- And he definitely uses the best cotton rich paper.

Also, the biggest volume of fake US Dollars circulate outside the US.

 

[Wheezebucket]

I was sales manager at a big ol' office supply store for about a year and a half. Our clerks were required to mark every bill from 10 up. We had two instances where counterfeits passed through our sweet pen security (well one at my store, one at another, but both in that year), and none where it caught any. I know that's neither here nor there, but for me personally it supports all the other info from this thread.

Thanks.

 

[luchog]

Er, no. I don't think there's a single sentence in there that is correct. I don't think you could have gotten more wrong if you had been labouring for weeks in a high production Wrong mine with a power drill and a mission statement. The Canadian Federal Government couldn't generate that much Wrong in a month, even by tapping in to the National Wrong Reserves and borrowing heavily from the Australian Minstry of Wrongness. If Oxford University ever wants to establish a Regius Professor of Wrong, I think you're the man.....

That's .sigfile material.
Unfortunately, the "nominate" button appears to have disappeared.

 

[kevin]

When I see discussions like this I'm reminded of the difference between a deterrent and a preventative.

These pens are anti-deterrents. They give confidence in a bill that may still be counterfeit. Let's say I make up a $100 but misspell Franklin's name. A clerk uses the pen and sees the misspelling. If they have been misinformed about the purpose of the pen (and most have) then they'll probably trust the pen over their own observation.

Same problem I have with presenting ID's at security checkpoints. It generates false sense of security.

 

[Loss Leader]

My own analogy is a drug that is approved for use by other nations' health system but has yet to be evaluated in this country. It will not be mentioned as a current remedy, but that does not mean that it is ineffective.

Wasn't, like, ninety-seven percent of Germany taking St. John's Wort? That proved to be an utterly useless drug. Pick a better example; the US is the world-leader in the development and testing of new medications. If it doesn't have FDA approval, don't take it.

 

[kevin]

Requests for information under the Freedom of Information Act must be filed with the agency. They don't just dump their information on the web. If you want to file a FOIA request with secret service about their policies on money pens go here:
http://www.secretservice.gov/foia.shtml

BTW, the secret service may not have a published opinion on counterfeit detection pens but they do appear to have an opinion on counterfeit detecting dogs.

http://www.secretservice.gov/press/pub0903.pdf

 

[tsg]

These pens are anti-deterrents. They give confidence in a bill that may still be counterfeit. Let's say I make up a $100 but misspell Franklin's name. A clerk uses the pen and sees the misspelling. If they have been misinformed about the purpose of the pen (and most have) then they'll probably trust the pen over their own observation.

I am tempted to by some cotton fiber paper, cut it into absolutely non-dollar sized shapes, write "NOT MONEY" in black magic marker (possibly crayon), and hand it to a cashier for a pen test.