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Any valid CTs?

Overman said:
Are there any CTs that are likely to be real, or real events that have proven to be a conspiricy? I would Imagine that people in power would have covered up some dirty deed on some large scale somewhere on Earth before...
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I will raise a semantic point, all and sundry are invited to hammer away at it.

The term "Conspiracy Theory" seems to connote something perjorative and chimerical, while conspiracy connotes an existent plot of nefarious purpose.

Connotation is the key matter hear. "Plan" is neutral as a word by itself, whilst conspiracy carries some baggage, and "plot" (not in the book writing sense, but in plan to do something) seems to connote slightly toward the negative.

From step one, then, as soon as we have said "conspiracy theory" rather than "theory" or "hypothesis," we seem to have presumed, or implied, a negative value to the undertaking. That would mean that any conspiracty theory is wrong once so labeled or assigned.

Does this make sense to anyone?

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
I will raise a semantic point, all and sundry are invited to hammer away at it.

The term "Conspiracy Theory" seems to connote something perjorative and chimerical, while conspiracy connotes an existent plot of nefarious purpose.

Connotation is the key matter hear. "Plan" is neutral as a word by itself, whilst conspiracy carries some baggage, and "plot" (not in the book writing sense, but in plan to do something) seems to connote slightly toward the negative.

From step one, then, as soon as we have said "conspiracy theory" rather than "theory" or "hypothesis," we seem to have presumed, or implied, a negative value to the undertaking. That would mean that any conspiracty theory is wrong once so labeled or assigned.

Does this make sense to anyone?

DR
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I think so. As I read it:

Conspiracy - Nefarious plot by bad guys
Conspiracy theory - Nefarious plot of an Oliver Stone film

:D
 
John D. Rockerfellers efforts to monopolize the American oil industry at the turn of the 20th century....
 
Mr. Skinny said:
The assassination of Abraham Lincoln was found to be a conspiracy, and not simply the act of a lone gunman (John Wilkes Booth).
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A conspiracy of 3 or 4, if I recall correctly. They also targeted the next 2 men in the line of succession without managing to kill either (though they came close).
 
Aoidoi said:
A conspiracy of 3 or 4, if I recall correctly. They also targeted the next 2 men in the line of succession without managing to kill either (though they came close).
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Without any googling, IIRC it was Mary Suratte (sp?) and John Suratte. I don't remember how they were related, but I think she owned a boarding house in D.C. where the conspirators met. The other two? guy(s) (again IIRC) were kinda semi-retarded and bought into the bullcrap.

I think they were all hung by the neck on the same scaffold.
 
Yes, the government's psychic research program, and also their LSD/brainwashing program - MKULTRA.
I think we'll eventually find that Frank Olson - the CIA scientist who "jumped" out of a New York hotel window after having his drink spiked with LSD by his colleagues - was in fact pushed.
 
jonronson said:
Yes, the government's psychic research program, and also their LSD/brainwashing program - MKULTRA.
I think we'll eventually find that Frank Olson - the CIA scientist who "jumped" out of a New York hotel window after having his drink spiked with LSD by his colleagues - was in fact pushed.
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Well, since this is a thread on valid CT's, I've gotta ask (in true Clausian style)...

Evidence?

Actually, I've never heard of this CT. Sounds interesting.
 
the Real 9/11 conspiracy.

*hijack planes.
*crash them into landmark buildings.

I.E not the Loosers "theories" (read wild and crazy conjuctures and speculations)
 
Mr. Skinny said:
Well, since this is a thread on valid CT's, I've gotta ask (in true Clausian style)...

Evidence?

Actually, I've never heard of this CT. Sounds interesting.
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well i know both the US and USSR experimented with remote viewing as a means of espionage, but i wouldnt call that a "conspiracy" any more than i woudl call the development of the f-117 a conspiracy
 
Curnir said:
the Real 9/11 conspiracy.

*hijack planes.
*crash them into landmark buildings.

I.E not the Loosers "theories" (read wild and crazy conjuctures and speculations)
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Word. (that is the current hip saying, no?)
 
I've written about the Olson case, as has Michael Ignatief in the NY Times. Olson's son Eric has a website. If you google Frank Olson project you'll find it. Of course there is absolutely no way of knowing if Eric Olson's theory is true (that it was murder not suicide) but it does ring true. I mean, it can't be any weirder than the official CIA story, which was ... the CIA wanted to test the effects of LSD on a scientist, so they spiked the Cointreau of the unwitting Frank Olson. he had a bad trip and a week later jumped out of a window in a New York hotel. That's the official version. Eric's version is that they offed him because he was going to spill the beans about circa 1953 CIA extraordinary rendition. Fascinating stuff.
 
Government military "black" projects. In other words, secret defense projects that no one is supposed to find out about. They are not "conspiracies" as such, but conspiracy theories sometimes grow up around them.

Pretty much just about every military project is a "black" project when it first starts. It's just that the longer they remain secret, the better chance there is of bits of information leaking out about them and becoming the kernel of a conspiracy theory.

For example, the stealth fighter and stealth bomber were sighted here and there for quite some time before they became declassified, and were sometimes mistaken for alien spacecraft. Some people thing that the giant black triangle shaped UFO sightings that have been reported are a US government lighter than air, stealthy transport of some sort. Sure, it's possible. But even if that is true, there are still a hard core of UFO believing CTers who would remain convinced that they are piloted by little grey men or reptoids.

When it comes to black projects, I would be surprised (and disappointed) if there WEREN'T any. After all, as a taxpayer I expect that money to go toward SOMETHING good. And whenever I hear about conspiracy theories that revolve around something that might be a secret military project, I get a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that our military is working on some stuff that, if successful, will (literally) blow peoples' minds.
 
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jonronson said:
I've written about the Olson case, as has Michael Ignatief in the NY Times. Olson's son Eric has a website. If you google Frank Olson project you'll find it. Of course there is absolutely no way of knowing if Eric Olson's theory is true (that it was murder not suicide) but it does ring true. I mean, it can't be any weirder than the official CIA story, which was ... the CIA wanted to test the effects of LSD on a scientist, so they spiked the Cointreau of the unwitting Frank Olson. he had a bad trip and a week later jumped out of a window in a New York hotel. That's the official version. Eric's version is that they offed him because he was going to spill the beans about circa 1953 CIA extraordinary rendition. Fascinating stuff.
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Jon, I've heard of govt. LSD experiments. I'm wondering...was this guys story covered on US TV? CBS's "60 minutes" perhaps?

Anyhow, this is interesting to me as I'd like a bit more detail, if you don't mind. If there is a web site where I can read more, please cite it.

Thanks.
 
yes, it is the frank olson legacy project, written by his son Eric. That is a great resource. I can't post the link being not yet trustworthy, but it is easy to find.
 
Red Siegfried said:
(snip)
Pretty much just about every military project is a "black" project when it first starts. It's just that the longer they remain secret, the better chance there is of bits of information leaking out about them and becoming the kernel of a conspiracy theory.
(snip)
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I only have a problem with this part of your post, Red Siegfried.

Most military projects (on a percentage basis) are in the wide open when they start. It's paper/software/materials/electronics/etc. studies that only a person trying to connect the dots would probably notice.

It's more likely that when the studies start to bear fruit that the program elements become sensetive/classified/secret.

Yes, I know I'm splitting hairs in a way, but I'm a government shill. :)
 
I listened to a lecture recently about the Civil War, and the professor spoke of a possible conspiracy among the slave holders, prior to the war, to manipulate the federal laws and law makers to spread slavery throughout the US.
 
Dave1001 said:
On what basis? It was certainly a harmful act towards nazi germany. It only couldn't be considered a harmful act in a winners write history sort of way.
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If that is the case then war and/or spying of any kind is a conspiracy - making conspiracy meaningless.
 
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