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Loose Change - Part IV

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T.A.M. said:
Daughter: Daddy, why do you never spend anytime with me?
Truther Daddy: Well because I am busy collecting evidence and heresay from laymen inorder to bring down the people who run our country.
Daughter: Why Daddy?
Truther Daddy: Because there is no REAL evidence to bring them down darling, so I have to get what I can, or fabricate it. Like that CNN poll I told you about. You know, the one Daddy and his friend went to over and over again to change the results.
Daughter: But isn't that dishonest Daddy?
Truther Daddy: Are you really my daughter, or are you a CIA plant?

:)
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BWAHAHAHAH!

I am sooooo stealing that!

-z
 
chipmunk stew said:
Gravy, Dylan finally figured out who you are. Aren't you relieved? It must have been hell for you, not knowing.


http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=9992&view=findpost&p=6577801
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Oh boy this is going to be fun. Besides Dylan's lack of proper research (hello, how the hell does Gravy write a webcomic, write several guides, do two movies, runs a site, does his tourism job, and goes to ground zero?! Does time slow down for Mark Roberts?), he thinks we will ignore the article.

I decided to take his so called challenge, although I am seriously skeptical about the source of the site.

Here are some key points in the article.

Apparently, unidentified commissioners wanted to cover up the fact that U.S. support for Israel was one of the motivating factors behind al-Qaeda's 9/11 attack.
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I find this hard to believe mainly because anyone who actually pays attention to the Middle East would already know about muslim extermists hatred for the west for not only doing things that are the complete opposite of their beliefs (examples are: Materialism, state and church seperate, our women wear as little or as much as they want), is also that we helped jews. However, the 9/11 Commission is supposed to talk about what happened that day, not the motives or the history behind Al-Qaeda. Just a red herring argument here.

The question is simple: If the vast bulk of Americans would be safer if U.S. politicians moderated their slavish support of Israel, designed to win the support of key pressure groups at home, wouldn't it be a good idea to make this change in course?
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Looking at Mainstream Arab Media, they simply dislike the west because we are the complete opposite with what they believe in. Does Dylan ever wonder why gold rings cannot be worn by men or women are covered from head to toe? Or why even some Al-Qaeda members, as shown in the Usual Suspects video, consider Saudi Arabia to be the Westerner's lapdog? Or what about King Farut, who collected jewelry and shopped in Paris daily, was overthrown by the Muslim Brotherhood (the father of Islamic Terrorism?)?

This is what scares me about these morons. They are so ignorant of history and consider themselves scholars.

But like the original 9/11 Commission report, President Bush regularly obscures this important reality by saying that America was attacked on 9/11 because of its freedoms, making no mention of U.S. interventionist foreign policy as the root cause.
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Oh no, it's not like their leaders say on mainstream Arab Media that they want to turn the entire world into an Islamic state. No no, Wally Shoebat, an ex-PLO terrorist, is all wrong about his statements. What about that Nonie Darwish, daughter of a martyr who was raised in Palestine? What the hell does she know?

The TRUTH movement who have spent our days in front of laptops in Starbucks know more about Muslims then those raised in the Middle East.

:eek:

The surveys show that people in Muslim countries admire American political and economic freedoms, culture, and technology. But the numbers go through the floor when Islamic people are asked about their approval of U.S. foreign policy.
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I've already shown in my 9/11 Deniers Speak movie how polls are crap and are easily manipulated.

I read the entire thing and not impressed. It's bascailly making statements without much knowledge of history or parroting what CNN has stated. Does supporting Israel have some influence on Islamic terrorism? Yes. Is this the source of the extremists and how everything started? Nope, they attacked their own kind and the British in Egypt before Israel was made. They also played some key parts for Nazi Germany in World War 2.
 
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Gravy, Dylan finally figured out who you are. Aren't you relieved? It must have been hell for you, not knowing.
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Woo hoo!

It's taking my all not to reply (not been banned yet) and talk about all the truthers at ground zero starting fights with the firefighters.
 
Abbyas said:
Woo hoo!

It's taking my all not to reply (not been banned yet) and talk about all the truthers at ground zero starting fights with the firefighters.
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Yes abby, as Do- Over Dylan says about Gravy, he wants to provocateur the movement

Don't provocateur them!
 
Well, for all the LCers bouncing over here, here are some of my favorite interactions with Truthers at GZ:

What appears to be an ex-firefighter, becomes very vocal in his displeasure of the 9/11 truthers and at one point says, "I had friends die!"

The truther responds with, "So?"

It escalates and the only person trying to calm the poor guy down is Gravy. Les Jamison takes this as an opportunity to scream, "The terrorists are in the white house! The terrorists are in the white house!"

And Gravy, RealityBites and I are the ones doing the instigating?

How in the world can someone go down to the world trade center, say that firefighters are in on it (and if you think that WTC7 came down by controlled demolition, then every firefighter that knew it was coming down was complicit) and not expect some reaction? And how can you say that's not picking fights?
 
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Dylan Avery @ LC said:
"gravy" aka MarkyX aka Mark Iradian aka Mark Roberts aka ... you get the picture ... is now showing up at Ground Zero on a weekly basis and starting fights with NY9-11Truth, provoking the cops to clear the area.

there's alot more to discuss, but the fact is, this man is out to infiltrate and provocateur the movement. he is a 40-something balding man who should have a life and family of his own, and is instead spending his own time, energy and money into harassing key members and gatherings of the 9-11 movement.

concerned "Tour Guide" or professional trouble maker? who knows. i'm sure he's reading this right now thinking of a clever response to it. the best he'll do is bring up my Jack Blood interview again. which I've already explained and apologized for.
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Bolding mine.

I have a three-year-old nephew who is more capable of rational thought.
 
from my talking to some hardcore "truthers", they really don't care who tehy offend, or whos respect they lose. It is all about the "Truth" and getting it out there, even if it means....Lieing!!! The contradiction is just...overwhelming.
 
Abbyas said:
How in the world can someone go down to the world trade center, say that firefighters are in on it (and if you think that WTC7 came down by controlled demolition, then every firefighter that knew it was coming down was complicit) and not expect some reaction? And how can you say that's not picking fights?
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I had an interaction with JerryB9105 like that. Here is what Jerry said about the Captain who said he saw a huge hole in WTC7...
JerryB9105 said:
I don't challenge this man's credentials but it is obvious to me that some people there might have been involved.
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I asked him if he felt the captain was complicit in the killing of those at the WTC? He went nuts. What the heck else could he have meant?

They don't get it. They have no problem accusing people of murder and then get pissed off when you point it out.
 
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Well, if this doesn't get me banned, nothing will.
they'll either marginalize or ignore the article entirely.

"gravy" aka MarkyX aka Mark Iradian aka Mark Roberts aka ... you get the picture ... is now showing up at Ground Zero on a weekly basis and starting fights with NY9-11Truth, provoking the cops to clear the area.

there's alot more to discuss, but the fact is, this man is out to infiltrate and provocateur the movement. he is a 40-something balding man who should have a life and family of his own, and is instead spending his own time, energy and money into harassing key members and gatherings of the 9-11 movement.

concerned "Tour Guide" or professional trouble maker? who knows. i'm sure he's reading this right now thinking of a clever response to it. the best he'll do is bring up my Jack Blood interview again. which I've already explained and apologized for.
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Well, this will be the post that gets me banned.

Number one, Mark Iradian and Mark Roberts are two different people.

Number two, I've talked with those in the 9/11 truth movement at Ground Zero many times, and I've watched their reactions with other people, especially firefighters, this one was especially telling:

When an ex-firefighter, becomes very vocal in his displeasure of the 9/11 truthers and at one point says, "I had friends die!"

The truther responds with, "So?"

It escalates and the only person trying to calm the poor guy down is Mark Roberts. Les Jamison takes this as an opportunity to scream, "The terrorists are in the white house! The terrorists are in the white house!"

How in the world can someone go down to the world trade center, say that firefighters are in on it? And how can you say that's not picking fights?

I don't care that those in the 9/11 truth movement protest. They have every right to do so. But to go down to a memorial and belittle those that died, those that had bretheren die (If you believe WTC7 came down via CD, then every firefighter that knew it was coming down was complicit) and belittle the family members of those that died by saying that they didn't actually speak with their loved ones aboard planes, and then claim that you are doing so peacefully and not instigating fights?

Number three: The cops have not once cleared the area. They have only given warnings that the truthers have heard before.

Number four re: balding. Those in glass houses, Adonis.
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They actually remind me of the extreme Islamists in a way. They are blinded by their hatred, or they are so convinced they are right, that they are deaf to all else. They do not care who they offend or hurt on route to pushing the "Truth"
 
he best he'll do is bring up my Jack Blood interview again. which I've already explained and apologized for.
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Forgot to point this out.

Dylan, if you are reading this, your statement had nothing to do with the lack of experience in media relations or that you were 'just a kid' (21 is an ADULT), but your lack of research.

NORAD tapes said they were bombs. Mark said to his mom that they were bombs. The Flight 93 transmission said they were bombs.

If you did your research, you or Jack Blood would have never bought the boxcutters story at all. You are only using your lack of experience and age to shield the fact that you are one lousy researcher.

Actually, if you did your reserach, you would have never made Loose Change
 
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DavidJames said:
Just in case you weren't already aware you were "Pat"
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I'll take that as a compliment; Gravy's results may vary. :D

I suppose the good news is that these guys aren't looking into us very hard. My name has been given out on the radio interviews I've done and it would take about ten minutes poking around to find it otherwise.
 
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chipmunk stew said:
"there's alot more to discuss, but the fact is, this man is out to infiltrate and provocateur the movement. he is a 40-something balding man who should have a life and family of his own, and is instead spending his own time, energy and money into harassing key members and gatherings of the 9-11 movement."
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Oh, the irony hurts my sides!
 
Dylan responded to my post:

abby, i won't be the one to ban you.

1) thanks for clearing that up.
2) I will definitely not disagree with you on that. There is a line between proper and improper behavior, and believe me, shouting at the top of our lungs is the last thing on our list (I speak only for myself, Jason and Korey). The altercation between Paul Isaac Jr and Jason happened down at Ground Zero only because Paul began shadowing Jason wherever he went, (as you see in the footage)
3) Understood. I heard that they cleared the area on one occasion.
4) I meant that to indicate his age. Bermas is balding too. Besides, Mr. Roberts has thrown enough personal assaults at me.

Thank you for voicing your opinion.
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I then responded:
Dylan, I have to say, I genuinely appreciate the respect in which you have replied. And due to that, I am sorry that I tacked on number 4.
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It looks like someone has either gotten the advice of a publicist. And I'm kicking myself for apologizing.
 
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