realitybites
Graduate Poster
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I'm gonna need a link for that one TAM, sorry. Not that I don't trust you.
Just a little too much for me to accept.
Loose Change - Part IV
- Thread starter Darat
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Just a little too much for me to accept.
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
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Meaning he didn't threaten to shoot the guy.
Mike, I dont know how UA does things, but at my airline there are numerous passenger lists. One thing I dont see on the manifests on your site is a listing of NR or NRSA, those are standby passengers. I've pulled up a company SOP and snipped this part out...
Passenger Name Lists
A*R/ET Print Electronic Ticket Manifest
LX1234/30MAR-D Cancelled Passengers
LD1224/30MAR-D Confirmed Passengers
LB1234/30MAR-D Convention Passengers
LM1234/30MAR-D Convention Groups
LF1234/30MAR-DF* Frequent Flyer List
LF1234/30MAR-DF Elite Frequent Flyer List
LG1234/30MAR-D Large Groups
LN1234/30MAR-D NRSA Names
LO1234/30MAR-D Outbound Connects
LP1234/30MAR-D Priority Waitlist
LU1234/30MAR-D Un-ticketed passengers
LW1234/30MAR-D Waitlist Passengers
I think its possible that the lists didnt include the non-revenue passengers because, well, they arent paying passengers and might show up on a seperate list.
Also, the gate agents usually run the passenger list and other dispatch paperwork down to the airplane no less than 5 minutes prior to departure, so stragglers wouldnt appear on the printed list - but they probably appear in the electronic lists....
Departure
Release Reserved Seats* 15 minutes before departure
Release Connection Seats* 10 minutes before departure Communicate with IROP / leadership team
Release Checked In Seats* 10 minutes before departure
Clear Coach Standbys * 15 - 25 minutes before departure
Clear First Class Standbys* 15 minutes before departure
Reconcile selectee passengers 10 minutes before departure A*RS
Print Weight and Data Record (WDR)* 10 minutes before departure JKTS
Print Flight Attendant Departure Report* 10 minutes before departure AFAD
Walk paperwork down 5 minutes before departure Scan loading bridge for tagged items
Dispatch aircraft 2 minutes before departure Collect flight release / ensure that the “cabin is secure”
I'll study the lists/manifests for the four flights and see if maybe there is something that sticks out..
Aha, thanks... So that would probably apply to the 2 employees, yes? And the guy who was given a first class ticket by "a friend who worked at United" would presumably be listed under non-revenue, too. Maybe the others got tickets the same way, from their relative, or perhaps they were just late? Seems like my first guess might work out after all.
So these could be a fax of a printed list. It seems odd they'd fax those to the FBI, but then maybe there were other documents sent along with it that gave the full picture.
Thanks!
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
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Just keep scrolling.
This is something I have talked about in the past. Apparently two of the Deniers who disagree with the missile into the Pentagon part got him to post after they noticed inconsistencies in Danner's story (and probably after hearing him call into a radio show). So they did the typical excellent research we see from Deniers on the parts of the CT they disagree with. Some interesting vidcaps from Pickering there.
Tough situation for the son. If I were able to post on the Looser board, I'd tell him not to worry about posting those voice mails; I'm sure they say what he claims.
Direct quote from JDX at bottom of confession thread...
" Matt,
Sorry to hear of your fathers' illness. Also, thank you for coming forward to set the record straight. I read his testimony on this site like everyone else, and was waiting to hear more before i commented. I knew Russ and Merc would get to the bottom of it either way, but it takes alot of courage for you to stand up in opposition to a family member. For that, i thank you...
As a side note: Why did he do it? What was his motivation? Was it the medication?
All my best to you, your family and your dad. smile.gif
edit: PS. Dont mind izzy, he attacks everyone who doesnt believe exactly as he does.
I hope you come back to post. We need good researchers like you. "
" Matt,
Sorry to hear of your fathers' illness. Also, thank you for coming forward to set the record straight. I read his testimony on this site like everyone else, and was waiting to hear more before i commented. I knew Russ and Merc would get to the bottom of it either way, but it takes alot of courage for you to stand up in opposition to a family member. For that, i thank you...
As a side note: Why did he do it? What was his motivation? Was it the medication?
All my best to you, your family and your dad. smile.gif
edit: PS. Dont mind izzy, he attacks everyone who doesnt believe exactly as he does.
I hope you come back to post. We need good researchers like you. "
I have been in Washington, DC since July 24th and I got back this afternoon. I am still in the process of reading all the new replies in the LC threads so please forgive me if what I am about to post is not on topic. One of the sights I went to in DC is the American History Museum. In the War exhibit, they have a 9/11 display with three things that I think may be of interest to you guys. One is a big piece of steel from the 70th floor from either tower (I forget which one, though I think it was from the south tower), another is an airfone recovered from the flight 93 crash site and the last thing is some IDs from Pentagon employee Patrick Dunn. I took pictures because I thought it may be of interest to you guys.
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1869/img0745ru2.jpg
Steel from WTC
http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/6346/img0748mb3.jpg
Flight 93 and Pentagon debris
Again, I am sorry if this is not related to what you are talking about, but I still have quite a lot of posts to go through and I wanted to post them before I forgot.
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1869/img0745ru2.jpg
Steel from WTC
http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/6346/img0748mb3.jpg
Flight 93 and Pentagon debris
Again, I am sorry if this is not related to what you are talking about, but I still have quite a lot of posts to go through and I wanted to post them before I forgot.
Yeah, the "first class" ticket the employees friend had was a "buddy pass", if there is room in first class, non-revs get to sit there, including buddies.
I guess its possible they sent more than than a fax of the printed list, I wouldve thought they had been given an electronic list that is all-inclusive.
One thing I noted about the manifests is that AA11s appears to include standbys. Near the top of the list there is:
LCL RV(Revenue): 8 18 52 NR(Non Revenue): 1 1 1
LCL TTL(total): 9 19 53
This tells me that there were 78 confirmed passengers and 3 non-revs, for a total of 81 and there are 81 listed - so it appears to be complete.
The dead giveaway is passenger 6 on the manifest who is flying on a pass
6 NEWELL RENEE ....3A AUTH EMPL PASS
24 MELLO CHRIS .....11B PPR (Primary Pass Rider)
59 NEIRA LAURI ... 28B EMPL
I havent figured out who the third nonrev is, but he/she would be in business class (row 7-11)
As far as you know, is AA11s list complete? Is there any discrepancies like UA 175 and 93?
I cant see anything that might point to NRs on either UA list..so they may very well just be a list of confirmed pax.
edit: found the third NR
edit2: AA 77s list includes nonrevs also.
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It seems the Danner incidence is going way too far now...I think they have their handsful over there. I think the right thing to do would be for us to drop it. It helps noone to have evidence turn up that supports and argument, and is later proven fake. Whats more, there is a son with a very ill father, who now has to forcibly embarrass his own hero, to get him to tell the truth. That is just sad.
I know others have drawn a line in the sand, but I am tired of the name calling. The MarkyX tapes had to come out, they were necessary. I was hoping it would embarrass the "spokespeople" for that movement into taming down their attacks and maybe even make them apologize. I see now that aint gonna happen. At least the tapes are there to make sure the lot will watch their mouths before they speak.
I believe in evidence, good solid evidence, from which ever side it comes from. This thing has gone so far beyond that, it is actually scary. I think that the Debunkers have the weight of evidence on their side, but that doesn't mean that all those on the other side are wrong in their intent. Many of them simply want the truth. If anything, I will work harder now to try and make sure that anything I present will be as solidly based in fact as possible.
(Down off soap box again)...
I know others have drawn a line in the sand, but I am tired of the name calling. The MarkyX tapes had to come out, they were necessary. I was hoping it would embarrass the "spokespeople" for that movement into taming down their attacks and maybe even make them apologize. I see now that aint gonna happen. At least the tapes are there to make sure the lot will watch their mouths before they speak.
I believe in evidence, good solid evidence, from which ever side it comes from. This thing has gone so far beyond that, it is actually scary. I think that the Debunkers have the weight of evidence on their side, but that doesn't mean that all those on the other side are wrong in their intent. Many of them simply want the truth. If anything, I will work harder now to try and make sure that anything I present will be as solidly based in fact as possible.
(Down off soap box again)...
See this is what I was afraid of...quote from poster at LGF:
"If Dylan Avery ever showed up at my doorstep, I'd kill him. Just straight-up kill him. Four shots to the skull (I believe in overkill). Yes, I'd admit it. Yes, I'd go to jail. Don't care. It'd be worth it. People like him are lower than sub-human. At least the jihadis have a grip on some level of reality. They know what they did on 9/11. They don't use their political hate to try and rewrite all of history with their lies, and denigrate the memories of the 3,000 Americans who lost their life that day. I will never forget that moment in New York. I was on Long Island, and we could see the smoke pillar rising to the heavens all day and into the night. I still cry when I think of the people who had to choose between the heat and falling to their deaths. I cry when I think of the people on the floors above the crash, who only had minutes to leave answering machine messages saying everything they had to say to their loved ones before they perished.
People like Avery and those who desire to believe his lies because their hate for their own fellow Americans trumps all are not fit to breathe the same air as the rest of us. If he ever showed up at my door he would receive the skull-****ing he's been asking for. At first I thought he might be misguided, but listening to him laugh about flight 93 and suggest that these brave men and women would knowingly sacrifice themselves at the behest of... what? Halliburton? That recording has convinced me that a world without Dylan Avery is a better one than a world with him.
So Dylan, come on over. Get what's coming to you. "
Not very good at all....
"If Dylan Avery ever showed up at my doorstep, I'd kill him. Just straight-up kill him. Four shots to the skull (I believe in overkill). Yes, I'd admit it. Yes, I'd go to jail. Don't care. It'd be worth it. People like him are lower than sub-human. At least the jihadis have a grip on some level of reality. They know what they did on 9/11. They don't use their political hate to try and rewrite all of history with their lies, and denigrate the memories of the 3,000 Americans who lost their life that day. I will never forget that moment in New York. I was on Long Island, and we could see the smoke pillar rising to the heavens all day and into the night. I still cry when I think of the people who had to choose between the heat and falling to their deaths. I cry when I think of the people on the floors above the crash, who only had minutes to leave answering machine messages saying everything they had to say to their loved ones before they perished.
People like Avery and those who desire to believe his lies because their hate for their own fellow Americans trumps all are not fit to breathe the same air as the rest of us. If he ever showed up at my door he would receive the skull-****ing he's been asking for. At first I thought he might be misguided, but listening to him laugh about flight 93 and suggest that these brave men and women would knowingly sacrifice themselves at the behest of... what? Halliburton? That recording has convinced me that a world without Dylan Avery is a better one than a world with him.
So Dylan, come on over. Get what's coming to you. "
Not very good at all....
Sword_Of_Truth
Penultimate Amazing
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Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
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How Gullible Are These People?
Sheesh, I just listened to Hufschmid interview Samuel Danner (MP3 file). And it should have been obvious within about 5 minutes that the guy's nuttier than a Blue Diamond warehouse. No kidding one of the first things he says is that while he was driving towards the Pentagon (prior to the crash there), his wife called him and told him about Shanksville. He estimates that the call took place at 9:35; at any rate he's sure it was before the Pentagon crash.
Sheesh, I just listened to Hufschmid interview Samuel Danner (MP3 file). And it should have been obvious within about 5 minutes that the guy's nuttier than a Blue Diamond warehouse. No kidding one of the first things he says is that while he was driving towards the Pentagon (prior to the crash there), his wife called him and told him about Shanksville. He estimates that the call took place at 9:35; at any rate he's sure it was before the Pentagon crash.
I would have thought so too, but it doesn't look like this list would be it. There's only the abbreviated version of the passengers names, for instance, so it's not much use to the authorities in identifying people.
Also, the date on the United Airlines faxes is October 2002, so they're not something that was faxed at the time. It makes me think this is just one document out of a folder, and we need more to get the full picture.
The AA flights are both fine, the UA flights both have missing passengers.
I agree. I despise Dylan and his ilk but would never want to see them hurt or worse over their little movie. There is absolutely no excuse for issuing death threats, even if they are issued out of sheer emotion and not meant to be taken literally.
Did you notice that UA 93 is page 2/3 and UA 175 is 3/3? Where is the first page!? They also dont quite go into as much detail as far as the type of ticket...
We may just be looking at confirmed tickets for both the UA lists. Someone "screwed the pooch" and sent incomplete lists that omitted late arrivers and non-revs..
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A cover page for the fax, "Here's the lists you wanted"?
Maybe so with 175. Many of the 93 passengers were shifted onto it from other flights, though, and they're included. So it's people who bought tickets themselves, and people who were transferred onto the flight at the airport, with only Bingham missing.
They'll do that when it comes time to invade San Francisco. They decided oil was more important than body glitter at this time. But while they had a chance, they figured they could take out a few activists at the same time.
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