Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

[Roadtoad]

Time may be the grand illusion in this world, but I do not agree with you that sin is a man made concept. Sin is the only thing that seperates us from God. We have all heard that to God time is not an issue since he can reach beyond those boundaries. God is so awesome time and space cannot even keep him from us, but sin is a whole different issue. Jesus died for a reason!

If I had to pick one thing which could be called "sin," Kathy, it's the attitude of smug superiority. The idea that somehow someone is "special" because they're saved indicates a strong denial of what Salvation is supposed to be.

The old saying that evangelism is one beggar telling another where to find bread no longer seems to hold sway with the Church. Where once, Dr. James Dobson said "God does not need our money, but you and I need the discipline of giving it," we now have "If you are not tithing, don't bother praying. For God will not hear a disobedient servant."

We have people telling us that if the doors are open, we need to be there. Will an omnipresent God only meet us in one particular piece of real estate?

And then there's the other question no one bothers to answer: What about those who cannot accept Christ, either because they have no access to hearing the word, or because they're blocked from accepting Him? They're bound for hell, according to the Church, and from what it sounds like they're saying, "They damned well deserve it."

It's an insult, not only to the believers I've known over the years, but to good pastors who faithfully spoke the word and lived it. It's an insult to those who want to follow Christ, and an insult to those who choose not to. It reveals a paucity of compassion and courage. It's a waste. Maybe, some day, you'll figure that out.

 

[Meffy]

If Jesus really were the mashiach, and if he were to return today, you can bet the money-changers* would kick him down the temple steps... all the while cursing him in his own name.

[edit] * Today's version of the money-changers being Robertson, Falwell, Hovind, all that lot.

 

[Cleon]

If Jesus really were the mashiach, and if he were to return today, you can bet the money-changers* would kick him down the temple steps... all the while cursing him in his own name.

[edit] * Today's version of the money-changers being Robertson, Falwell, Hovind, all that lot.

This song was written in New York City,
Of rich man, preachers, and slaves;
And if Jesus preached today,
as he preached at Gallilee,
they would lay Jesus Christ in his grave.
- Woody Guthrie

 

[Roadtoad]

If Jesus really were the mashiach, and if he were to return today, you can bet the money-changers* would kick him down the temple steps... all the while cursing him in his own name.

[edit] * Today's version of the money-changers being Robertson, Falwell, Hovind, all that lot.

I think, Meffy, you just said what I just said, only more succinctly.

 

[slingblade]

but he is merciful if you see him in the right light.

Oddly enough, so were Manson, Dahmer, Goebbels, Himmler.......

Note, it's not that they actually were merciful....their mercy is contingent upon you seeing them in the right light. Therefore, if you don't perceive such entities as merciful, it is your fault for not using the "right light."

Easy.

 

[kurious_kathy]

So God isn't all-powerful? He can't reach me unless I'm cleansed of sin? And likewise, he can't accept me into heaven? Even though he wants to?

Or... maybe he doesn't. After all, if sin isn't a man-made concept, then it must be a God-made concept, am I right? That means God decided at the beginning of time (ie: 6,000 years ago) to create something that would separate him from most of humankind.

Which is it, kathy?

God is all powerful, but he cannot forgive us unless we receive Christ. It is said when we receive Jesus, God the Father see's Christ in us. God can't even look at us until we receive Christ and ask for forgiveness. And what does that take? Don't we all need to get to the point where we see our sin and our need to be reconciled to a Holy God.

Perhaps it is most important that we experience this revelation which enlightens us to the truth. Sin is real and only God can open our eyes to it.

I don't like living lost in a world where sin seems to rule people. Just turn on the news and it's obvious how people are doing evil out there. So why is it sometimes we can see others evil or sins, but maybe we have not accepted or seen our own?

"All like sheep have gone astray, better get ready for judgement day!"

 

[kurious_kathy]

It's an insult, not only to the believers I've known over the years, but to good pastors who faithfully spoke the word and lived it. It's an insult to those who want to follow Christ, and an insult to those who choose not to. It reveals a paucity of compassion and courage. It's a waste. Maybe, some day, you'll figure that out.

RT, It's never a waste to share Christ with anyone at anytime, so why would you make this statement? None of us are perfect, but Jesus is. God accepted his sacrifice for all of our sakes.

So if God looks more at the condition of our heart rather than the outward appearance, then what really is important?

 

[EnanMyHero]

What I wanna know is why is your name kurious kathy when you really aren't curious at all? You are dead set in your ways and you don't really pay attention to what people write. You spew pretty much the same message again and again.

 

[wollery]

God is all powerful, but he cannot .......

KK, if you don't see the mindboggling irony of that statement then there's no hope at all for your reasoning abilities.

You're a stuck record, and sadly it's an extremely poor recording of a very old tune.

 

[DJ Hexadecibel]

"You can rule with power effectively until people refuse to acknowledge that power." -Gale, from Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga 2

KK,
Such is the power of sin, and man's apparent love for it. This is why sin is not "real", and has no power over those who refuse to acknowledge it. Bear in mind, "sin" does not equal "crime", for crimes are an infringement of another's rights. Masturbation is not a crime, nor is fornication, so should you be punished for rubbing one out? Of course not, your rights end where mine begin, like if you were to hold me hostage on a city bus with your member in your hand. So don't speak to me of sin as if it were real, and I shall not preach to you about the virtues of reason, deal? Now, if it is a discussion you'd like, that's different, and I shall not give up hope that we shall have one...eventually.

 

[boojum]

If I had to pick one thing which could be called "sin," Kathy, it's the attitude of smug superiority. The idea that somehow someone is "special" because they're saved indicates a strong denial of what Salvation is supposed to be.

I think Lazarus Long's definition (via Robert Heinlein) of "sin" has considerable merit:

Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense.

 

[Palimpsest]

God is all powerful, but he cannot forgive us unless we receive Christ.

...

God can't even look at us until we receive Christ and ask for forgiveness.

So God is all-powerful, but there are some things he can't do. Check. Wollery already pointed out how that doesn't make sense. Unless you're not clear on what "all-powerful" actually means?

Okay, kkathy, next question: why can't he forgive us unless we receive Christ? Who made that rule?

Sin is real and only God can open our eyes to it.

Is that the same God who can't even look at us unless we receive Christ? How can he do anything to us if he can't see us? Does he sort of shoot Christ-receiving beams at random and hope for the best, like "ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! Damn, still can't look at them! ZAP! ZAP! Hey, now I can see you! Hallelujah, brother, you're saved!"

 

[Anacoluthon64]

Is that the same God who can't even look at us unless we receive Christ? How can he do anything to us if he can't see us? Does he sort of shoot Christ-receiving beams at random and hope for the best, like "ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! Damn, still can't look at them! ZAP! ZAP! Hey, now I can see you! Hallelujah, brother, you're saved!"

Yes, it's called "Grace Invaders."

'Luthon64

 

[kurious_kathy]

So God is all-powerful, but there are some things he can't do. Check. Wollery already pointed out how that doesn't make sense. Unless you're not clear on what "all-powerful" actually means?

Okay, kkathy, next question: why can't he forgive us unless we receive Christ? Who made that rule? Is that the same God who can't even look at us unless we receive Christ?

I don't look at it as a rule, but a gift. Salvation is a gift. Jesus did not have to come to earth as a man and live with us and certainly he did not have to die for us. It was the only way to redeem us when man chose to rebel against God. Jesus never sinned and was the only holy sacrifice made in our place. When we read the OT it is clear that he was showing us all along that he was planning to make atonement for our sins. He is the holy lamb of God.

And God certainly can intervene anytime he wants to reveal himself all powerful. The one thing he won't do is interfere with human free will. Is he testing us through our free will?

 

[Palimpsest]

I don't look at it as a rule, but a gift. Salvation is a gift.

But not a free gift. And not a universal one. God withholds it from most people, because certain conditions must be met. That sounds like a rule to me.

Jesus did not have to come to earth as a man and live with us and certainly he did not have to die for us. It was the only way to redeem us when man chose to rebel against God.

Why was it the only way? Who decided that? Was it God? Did he have to sacrifice his son, instead of just... forgiving us?

 

[Meffy]

As omnipotent deities go he's awfully weak. When it comes to omnibenevolence he seems suspiciously sadistic and capricious. His omniscience doesn't appear to be compatible with the observed world either.

Needs practice if he wants to be a real god.

 

[kurious_kathy]

But not a free gift. And not a universal one. God withholds it from most people, because certain conditions must be met. That sounds like a rule to me.



Why was it the only way? Who decided that? Was it God? Did he have to sacrifice his son, instead of just... forgiving us?

God doesn't withhold salvation from anyone. It just has to be received so how can you see it as a set of rules someone must follow? The only thing that must be accepted is the truth that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus came to save us, not condemn us.

Here's another sticker idea I came up with today...
Faith is the battle and souls are the cost, God's the only one who can save the lost.

 

[Meffy]

Here's another sticker idea I came up with today...
Faith is the battle and souls are the cost, God's the only one who can save the lost.

Um, Kathy... cute slogan but you've just explained that God is incapable of saving the lost -- that the lost are the only ones with the power to save themselves. Which is it, please?

 

[Palimpsest]

God doesn't withhold salvation from anyone. It just has to be received so how can you see it as a set of rules someone must follow? The only thing that must be accepted is the truth that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus came to save us, not condemn us.

He's doing both, though, isn't he? Saving a handful of people, and condemning the rest to roast in hell. Everybody who lived before him. Everybody who never heard of him. Everybody who did hear of him but is misled (as far as you're concerned) by other religions and philosophies.

He's withholding salvation unless I believe first, accept Christ, and ask for his forgiveness. Why? Why is Christ the only way? Did God decide that, in the beginning of time?

Here's another sticker idea I came up with today...
Faith is the battle and souls are the cost, God's the only one who can save the lost.

Catchy. Yes, many souls are lost to faith. You're a prime example.

 

[kurious_kathy]

He's doing both, though, isn't he? Saving a handful of people, and condemning the rest to roast in hell. Everybody who lived before him. Everybody who never heard of him. Everybody who did hear of him but is misled (as far as you're concerned) by other religions and philosophies.

He's withholding salvation unless I believe first, accept Christ, and ask for his forgiveness. Why? Why is Christ the only way? Did God decide that, in the beginning of time?



Catchy. Yes, many souls are lost to faith. You're a prime example.

Funny you would say my soul is lost because of faith. It's faith in God that keeps me going. There are many things I wish were different in this world. I hate to see pain and suffering and I also do have to endure some of my own. It's better to know when I get to the end of my own strength, God will and does carry me through. I don't have to worry because in my own weakness his strength abounds.

So why does God allow us to suffer? We all really won't understand till we are on the other side of eternity. The biggest concern for each of us should be, "Where Will We Spend Eternity?"

Once we die it is too late to make that choice. And I guess that is something we all need to realize. Do we trust and believe God, or do we deny him?

So as to your question of why is Christ the only way, because God himself said so. And since the beginning of time I guess it was all decided what God would have to do to try to save us.