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The annihilation of the p-zombie

lifegazer

Philosopher
L
Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Messages
5,047
A philosophical zombie (p-zombie, for short) would be a human body without consciousness which would nevertheless behave like a human body with consciousness.

Can somebody explain to me how a human could behave (interact with the world) normally, without being aware (conscious) of that world?
Why is it that the establishment entertains such a ludicrous concept as a means to further in-depth discussion?

Isn't it about time that the zombie bit the dust?
 
lifegazer said:
A philosophical zombie (p-zombie, for short) would be a human body without consciousness which would nevertheless behave like a human body with consciousness.

Can somebody explain to me how a human could behave (interact with the world) normally, without being aware (conscious) of that world?
Why is it that the establishment entertains such a ludicrous concept as a means to further in-depth discussion?

Isn't it about time that the zombie bit the dust?
Click to expand...
How do I know that you are not a p-zombie?

Apart from the obvious, of course.
 
Mojo said:
How do I know that you are not a p-zombie?
Click to expand...
Sounds like a threat.

You can know that I'm not a p-zombie because I'm interacting with you (your words), thus proving that I'm conscious.
Or do you have a theory which would allow a zombie to interact with you without being conscious of your existence?
 
You said yourself that a P-zombie acts like it is conscious. So of course it would refer to itself as "I".
 
Mercutio said:
I am a p-zombie.
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No I am the p-zombie!


I'm assuming you were being serious? By many of the definition of p-zombie I am a p-zombie - I have no continuous consciousness, there are long periods every day when there is no "I" associated with the bag of chemicals typing this post.
 
lifegazer said:
Sounds like a threat.

You can know that I'm not a p-zombie because I'm interacting with you (your words), thus proving that I'm conscious.
Or do you have a theory which would allow a zombie to interact with you without being conscious of your existence?
Click to expand...

Interaction isn't a necessary condition for consciousness.
 
I am the P-Zombie.

They are the P-zombies.

I am the walrus.

Goo goo g'joob.

Michael
 
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Darat said:
No I am the p-zombie!


I'm assuming you were being serious? By many of the definition of p-zombie I am a p-zombie - I have no continuous consciousness, there are long periods every day when there is no "I" associated with the bag of chemicals typing this post.
Click to expand...
Of coure I was being serious. By any reasonable definition of p-zombie, that is precisely what I am. (I did prefer the term "m-zombie", but it never caught on. You can search the forum for the term...all it did was to specify that, given a zombie that exhibits all the behaviors of a person, "behaviors" explicitly includes private behavior in an m-zombie. All that is missing is that thing called "consciousness".) As you have said in previous posts, the "I" is actually inferred from a set of discontinuous experiences, and any p-zombie worth his brains (his delicious brains) would certainly use the phrase "I am..." (probably in "I am p-zombie, hear me roar, in numbers too big to ignore...")
 
lifegazer said:
No. You said "I am", proving that you're self-conscious... proving that you're not a...
Click to expand...
But I thought p-zombies behaved just like people. This would seem an incredibly easy way to tell them apart, invalidating the proposition that they behave the same.
 
Mercutio said:
But I thought p-zombies behaved just like people. This would seem an incredibly easy way to tell them apart, invalidating the proposition that they behave the same.
Click to expand...
It isn't my proposition.
I want to know how an entity with consciousness could exhibit all of the behaviour exhibited by humanity. I think it's a ludicrous idea, meaning that the proposition is 'dust'.

Some here have argued that a computer could say "I am". Maybe, but such limited behaviour hardly matches the complexity of our being.
Moreover, a computer does what it does because external self-aware bodies have programmed it to do so. Hence, essentially, consciousness is responsible for robotic behaviour.

Most of you here do not believe that the human body is created/programmed by a self-aware entity (i.e. God), so we have to acknowledge the distinction between computers/robots and the atheistic p-zombie.
 
ACK ZOMBIES!!! :gets the shotgun: Goin Resident Evil on you stinkin Zombies!!!

(Sorry had to do it >_< )
 
p-zombies could not believe in the concept of 'God'.

Could somebody explain to me - without using the influence of external programming from self-aware entities - how a p-zombie could come to believe in the existence of a concept that cannot be experienced?
I could also ask this question about ghosts and various other concepts that cannot be experienced.

Of course, belief in the actual existence of such concepts has had a massive influence in the behaviour of humanity. Hence, please address this question or else the zombie gets it.
 
lifegazer said:
Could somebody explain to me - without using the influence of external programming from self-aware entities - how a p-zombie could come to believe in the existence of a concept that cannot be experienced?
I could also ask this question about ghosts and various other concepts that cannot be experienced.

Of course, belief in the actual existence of such concepts has had a massive influence in the behaviour of humanity. Hence, please address this question or else the zombie gets it.
Click to expand...

In regards to ghosts:

A malfunctioning brain?
 
lifegazer said:
I want to know how an entity with consciousness could exhibit all of the behaviour exhibited by humanity. I think it's a ludicrous idea, meaning that the proposition is 'dust'.
Click to expand...

You mean 'without?' If consciousness is an illusion then all entities act without it and that includes human behaviour.

Some here have argued that a computer could say "I am". Maybe, but such limited behaviour hardly matches the complexity of our being.
Click to expand...

Argument from incredulity.

Moreover, a computer does what it does because external self-aware bodies have programmed it to do so. Hence, essentially, consciousness is responsible for robotic behaviour.
Click to expand...

And possibly a product of robot behaviour... or at least natural processes.

Most of you here do not believe that the human body is created/programmed by a self-aware entity (i.e. God), so we have to acknowledge the distinction between computers/robots and the atheistic p-zombie.
Click to expand...

No acknowledgement is necessary. If humans came about wholly through natural processes, and robots are created by humans, then robots could come about through natural processes, essentially created by p-zombies.
 
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