How to prevent manipulation.

[FireGarden]

I see a commercial and I think "this is stupid, who would ever be affected by something like this?".

You may be like me, then. Some ads must be counter-productive -- they can't all be aimed at everyone.

Having thought some more...
One type of ad that works on me are songs on the radio. Singles are ads for albums. I've bought a few albums on the strength of one or two songs, and then not liked anything else on the album.

Extreme's pornographiti
I liked Get the Funk out and More than Words. But nothing else made it onto the ipod.

 

[Tanstaafl]

"Pessimist" is simply what an optimist calls a realist.

"realist" is simply what a pessimist calls himself.

 

[Piscivore]

Are you suggesting everyone buys things because of advertising? It seems to me that advertising in general is designed to hit that minority that is actually influenced by it rather than designed to influence everyone it hits.

I'm under the impression that advertising is less about influencing than creating awareness.

Try an experiment- think of three auto insurance companies, off the top of your head. Don't look them up, don't google, just see which ones are in your memory right now. I know you have a visceral awareness of one of them, even if you don't realise it right now, because you saw their advertisement.

Spam, for example, doesn't work on most people at all. Not a single person I know, aside from a certain relative, has ever said "you know, I think I would like natural enhancement with herbs bought from some shady person in the dank recesses of the internet".

Spam, like a 419 scam, is designed to hit that gullible minority, but I don't think you can equate spam with more mainstream advertising, though.

TV advertising is mentally offensive, emotionally childish and intellectually oppressive to me. I see a commercial and I think "this is stupid, who would ever be affected by something like this?".

I don't watch a toy commercial and say "those kids are having fun, I want fun too, that product is the way, the ONLY way,I can ever have fun, EVER!". I don't even associate that item with having fun or think that anyone could possibly actually enjoy it as much as those constantly screaming artifical child drones are pretending to (plus I never have a playset or giant field nearly as large as they have access to).

Well, you aren't the target audience, are you?

Some people apparently are, enough to make blasting it on EVERYONE's screens worth it, but somehow I doubt it's the majority, and I've never once seen a commercial and suddenly got an itch to obtain what was being shown.

That's not what they are meant to do. At all.

Same in stores. They throw all these ridiculous attempts at grabbing my attention, like "The Hulk is standing by this drink, you should get this drink because the Hulk is standing by it, in card board form!".

That works on kids, though, and that is who the Hulk is aiming for, not the adult male- although, I bet Hulk hits a few of those as bonus targets.

Or, the all too common "you could be a winner!" thing. Here's a secret, I generally don't even realize there's a contest at all except by mistake.

Shoppers aren't likely to seek out a brand because of a contest, and the contest isn't meant to persuade them to- although that does happen. What it is meant to do is sway the shopper looking at two reasonably equivilent products adjacent on the shelf to choose theirs over the competitors. That's why you do not see many television spots for the constant rounds of soda contests, for example.

I just look for the food I want, and it could be in a plain white bag with a standard font reading "Baked confectionaries with chocolate coating" with a list of ingrediants and I wouldn't care so long as it was delicious, and actually I'd prefer it because then I'd know exactly what I was buying.

And they you'd go get sushi and not pay?

Seriously, I'm skeptical of that claim, mainly because of the dearth of such packaging, a large part because very very few people know what sort of influences they are being subjected to, and partially because if you've never tried the products before, how are you going to determine which is "delicious" and which tastes like Chinese newspapers?

And as for ads that try to be hilarious, it falls flat. I simply don't care about their innane little jokes, and if for some reason an ad somehow worms it's way into my memory, you can bet I won't remember enough details for it to be helpful to the company that made it. Like those commercials with that talking lizard selling cars. I have no idea what car brand the advertiser is trying to sell.

Are you sure?

 

[Dark Jaguar]

I'm under the impression that advertising is less about influencing than creating awareness.

Try an experiment- think of three auto insurance companies, off the top of your head. Don't look them up, don't google, just see which ones are in your memory right now. I know you have a visceral awareness of one of them, even if you don't realise it right now, because you saw their advertisement.

Okay, the one with the crazy cartoon action stuff, the one with that overweight guy who's always angry, and... the one I use? That might be one of those two, but I'll be hard pressed to give you a name. Sorry...

Spam, like a 419 scam, is designed to hit that gullible minority, but I don't think you can equate spam with more mainstream advertising, though.

Isn't it though? I don't see the difference. Besides, email is mainstream these days and everyone knows what spam is.

Well, you aren't the target audience, are you?

Aren't I? Kids don't have money. They run to parents and other relatives asking them to buy this stuff. Also I'm pretty childish myself .

That's not what they are meant to do. At all.

What are they meant to do then? I'm not sure I understand. Isn't the entire goal of modern advertising about convincing people to buy something? Making them aware of it would be a LOT easier than the over the top efforts a lot of these people go through. Why would they say things like "this is exactly what you've been waiting for" instead of "this exists, just thought you should know, you know, if you want something like this, no pressure"? (By the way, if they ever actually did an advertisement the old way, I might actually be convinced to buy the product by that .)

That works on kids, though, and that is who the Hulk is aiming for, not the adult male- although, I bet Hulk hits a few of those as bonus targets.

I was a kid once. I saw things like Robocop or whatever next to large stands of soda, and thought that Robocop was cool, but I also knew I hated Mountain Dew. Never convinced me to beg a parent to buy soemthing out of association....

Shoppers aren't likely to seek out a brand because of a contest, and the contest isn't meant to persuade them to- although that does happen. What it is meant to do is sway the shopper looking at two reasonably equivilent products adjacent on the shelf to choose theirs over the competitors. That's why you do not see many television spots for the constant rounds of soda contests, for example.

How often does one run across a scenario of "two otherwise identical products"? Very rarely has been my case. This brand of cookies and that brand of cookies aren't totally identical. They taste differently and more than likely I've bought both before and know what they taste like (or should unless they changed something, like how I can't stand the taste of oatmeal cream pies any more ever since they did something to them, which sucks because they used to be great). If I did run into a situation where two things were totally identical in every way except a contest, and I was actually caring enough about the decision to not just pick up the one easiest to reach (wouldn't be the first time, I can be as lazy as I am forgetful), eh, I might go with the contest, but that's a situation I can pretty much not remember ever actually running into.

And they you'd go get sushi and not pay?

Seriously, I'm skeptical of that claim, mainly because of the dearth of such packaging, a large part because very very few people know what sort of influences they are being subjected to, and partially because if you've never tried the products before, how are you going to determine which is "delicious" and which tastes like Chinese newspapers?

Not sure what that first part means.... but I know based on past experience. If it is pasta related, I'll probably enjoy it, and if I don't I just don't buy that any more. Trial and error are about all I can go on, but I'll tell you ONE marketting force that affects me, price. I'll get the cheapest item that has what I want available and if it sucks I'll get the next one up.

Are you sure?

I'm sure. And that's not the only one. My memory is bad to their detriment. I can't associate anything they do on TV with their product. I might remember as much as "what on earth were they even trying to advertise? Having fun as a concept?", but then again I don't really ever pay attention. There was a slew of advertising a while ago for patent type thingies, and I can't for the life of me name a single one of those companies. I'm just terrible at remembering details like names, places, and specific numbers (hence why I carry around my own personal numbers on my person at all times). I'm just no good with brand names. I need to see them over and over and over again and have it connect with something I might actually be interested in for them to ever actually stick. Like, for example, I could name a large number of computer related brand names because that's a major interest of mine. I couldn't for the life of me name an insurance company, no matter how many stupid action insurance commercials they may do, because my memory is terrible and I really just don't care.

Off the top of my head, I could check my various papers to find the name of the insurance company I happen to use (yes, it's that bad). In other words, when it comes time to find a certain product, I have to use the internet to look up stuff because I certainly can't depend on my memory.

 

[Piscivore]

Okay, the one with the crazy cartoon action stuff, the one with that overweight guy who's always angry, and... the one I use? That might be one of those two, but I'll be hard pressed to give you a name. Sorry...

Well, even if you don't remember their names, you have been influenced by their ads. You remember them. They are the ones that come to mind. As you say below, auto insurance does not interest you very much. But what about the person who is sitting at the kitchen table paying their bills, lamenting about how much they are spending on premium, when that Liverpudlian lizard comes on? The advertisers in this case aren't trying to snare people and make them buy whether they need it or not, they want to get their attention, create a memory for when they do have a need. And they are going to remember the little green lizard before, and probably instead of, doing a cost benefit analysis of every company out there.

Isn't it though? I don't see the difference. Besides, email is mainstream these days and everyone knows what spam is.

Yes, but spam advertisers for penile enhancement are much different than your typical television ad.

All right, I'll give you most car ads are exactly the same as spam ads for penile enhancement.

Aren't I? Kids don't have money. They run to parents and other relatives asking them to buy this stuff. Also I'm pretty childish myself .

Kids are the single most highly targeted demographic out there. for the exact reason you mention.

What are they meant to do then? I'm not sure I understand. Isn't the entire goal of modern advertising about convincing people to buy something?

In a sense, but you're off the mark, I think, in exactly how. It isn't about creating desire out of thin air. It is about harnessing it, and pulling towards your product instead of a competitor's. No advertising in the world is going to get *you* to desire feminine hygene products. No one is going to buy car insurance if they do not have a car. But when that need exists, the advertisers want you to go to them, not the other guy.

That said, the overwhelming majority of humans usually walk around with huge stockpiles of unfulfilled and unfulfillable desires. A lot of advertising is geared towards redirecting that towards their product. Seriously, who needs a Yodel? If you're stable and fairly satisfied with your life, the advertisers really couldn't give less of a s[rule 8] about influencing you. There's more than enough fish in the sea. And guess which demographic has the highest level of unfulfilled desires?

Making them aware of it would be a LOT easier than the over the top efforts a lot of these people go through. Why would they say things like "this is exactly what you've been waiting for" instead of "this exists, just thought you should know, you know, if you want something like this, no pressure"?

When was the last time you saw a real ad that said anything like "this is exactly what you've been waiting for?" That's very old school- Nineteenth Century old school. Most ads these days are going for impressions and emotional reactions, not overt appeals to reason and persuasion. No one in advertising gives a crap about the forebrain anymore.

And there have been several ads like your latter example- not because they really don't want to exert pressure, but because by being different they make an impression.

(By the way, if they ever actually did an advertisement the old way, I might actually be convinced to buy the product by that .)

So you're drinking Ketel One then, I assume?

I was a kid once. I saw things like Robocop or whatever next to large stands of soda, and thought that Robocop was cool, but I also knew I hated Mountain Dew. Never convinced me to beg a parent to buy soemthing out of association.

I don't believe you. The notion that you can account for every single purchase your parents made in your presence is beyond any expectation of credibility. Unless you were brought up Amish.

How often does one run across a scenario of "two otherwise identical products"? Very rarely has been my case. This brand of cookies and that brand of cookies aren't totally identical.

I did not say "identical", I said "reasonably equivilent". Ketchup. Cola. Canned peas. Gossip magazines. Frozen pizza. Fast-food cheeseburgers.

Not sure what that first part means....

Repo Man reference.

but I know based on past experience. If it is pasta related, I'll probably enjoy it, and if I don't I just don't buy that any more. Trial and error are about all I can go on, but I'll tell you ONE marketting force that affects me, price. I'll get the cheapest item that has what I want available and if it sucks I'll get the next one up.

So what you are saying is that the actual marketing force that affects you is value. You won't buy the noodles that taste like Chinese newspapers just because they are cheaper. A large part of advertising is convincing the customer that the product being advertised has more value than the competitor's. This again is not creating desire.

I'm sure. And that's not the only one. My memory is bad to their detriment. I can't associate anything they do on TV with their product. I might remember as much as "what on earth were they even trying to advertise? Having fun as a concept?", but then again I don't really ever pay attention. There was a slew of advertising a while ago for patent type thingies, and I can't for the life of me name a single one of those companies. I'm just terrible at remembering details like names, places, and specific numbers (hence why I carry around my own personal numbers on my person at all times). I'm just no good with brand names. I need to see them over and over and over again and have it connect with something I might actually be interested in for them to ever actually stick. Like, for example, I could name a large number of computer related brand names because that's a major interest of mine. I couldn't for the life of me name an insurance company, no matter how many stupid action insurance commercials they may do, because my memory is terrible and I really just don't care.

Off the top of my head, I could check my various papers to find the name of the insurance company I happen to use (yes, it's that bad). In other words, when it comes time to find a certain product, I have to use the internet to look up stuff because I certainly can't depend on my memory.

Well, I'm not sure advertisers are going to lose sleep over you if you're displaying such a high level of cultural alzheimers. I'm having a hard time dismissing the notion you are being more than a little disingenuous. If you are telling the truth, I'll bet you recognise more logos than you think you do.

ETA: And if you are being completely honest, then the advertisers don't care about you because you are not a member of the culture they are selling to. That's why you don't respond to the ads, because they are not designed to sell to you, any more than they are to a Kalahari Bushman.

You must be aware that the average consumer does not match the extraordinarily foggy perception of the dominant zeitgeist you describe, right?