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Heaven and Hell role reversal

Foster Zygote

Dental Floss Tycoon
Foster Zygote
Joined
Jun 24, 2006
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We are told by believers that we must deny ourselves the pleasures of the flesh in this life in order to earn our reward in the next. So, the way I see it Hell would be the boring place with all the monochrome scenery and harps and boring stuff while heaven would be all booze 'n' drugs 'n' hookers 'n' rock & roll etc.

Comments? =0)

Steven
 
Could be. I've never understood why some people think Hell (if it existed) would be all booze 'n' drugs 'n' hookers 'n' rock & roll. I wonder if they also think jail must be the place where we can joyride in stolen cars, plunder our companies' pension funds, and rob banks to our hearts' content?
 
(rather personal interpretation of church history)

Heaven and hell were invented to escape the obvious logical problem: if God is all-powerful and he is all-just, how come there is so much evil in the world? Answer: God will provide justice in the afterlife. Which means he'll provide happiness in afterlife to those who had a miserable life, and misery to those who've made life way too happy for themselves.
Next question is: so what happens when you've had an utterly average life? Answer: avoid having an utterly average life. Make life as horrible for yourself as you possibly can.
 
Bruno Putzeys said:
(rather personal interpretation of church history)

Heaven and hell were invented to escape the obvious logical problem: if God is all-powerful and he is all-just, how come there is so much evil in the world?
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Heaven and Hell are not need to escape this problem. All that is needed is free will.
 
Actually, not all hells are described as fire and brimstone. For instance the hell of Innuits is "the land of hanging heads", where people are simply bored.

And that makes sense: The only torment you could realistically give an immortal soul is eternal boredom. Which would, of course, not be too bad a threat to all us introverts ;).

Hans
 
Make a note of it: in man's heaven there are no exercises for the intellect, nothing for it to live upon. It would rot there in a year -- rot and stink. Rot and stink -- and at that stage become holy. A blessed thing: for only the holy can stand the joys of that bedlam. - Mark Twain Letters From Earth
 
Dr Adequate said:
:notm
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OK, free will and the fact the God is not capable of preventing natural disasters. Between them, natural disasters and human evil account for most of the sufferings of the world. God clearly cannot prevent the former and according to Christianity has chosen not to prevent the latter by granting us free will.
 
JustGeoff said:
OK, free will and the fact the God is not capable of preventing natural disasters. Between them, natural disasters and human evil account for most of the sufferings of the world. God clearly cannot prevent the former and according to Christianity has chosen not to prevent the latter by granting us free will.
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Ehr, God is supposed to be omnipotent. So she has chosen not to prevent natural disasters (which, in Cristian cultures, are indeed called "acts of God")

.... And you forgot disease. Disease is the cause of much suffering, and humans are the only ones doing something about it.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
Ehr, God is supposed to be omnipotent. So she has chosen not to prevent natural disasters (which, in Cristian cultures, are indeed called "acts of God")
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I've had this debate on this forum before. The claim that we have free will and the claim that God can accurately predict natural disasters are logically incompatible. If we have free will, then the future is not exactly predetermined. If the future is not exactly predetermined then even an omniscient God cannot perfectly know the future because the future is logically unknowable. It is no different to an omnipotent God not still not being able to create square circles.

.... And you forgot disease. Disease is the cause of much suffering, and humans are the only ones doing something about it.
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OK, given that unless you are a young-earther you also accept that the existence of God is compatible with an evolutionary explanation of the origin of species, you also have to say that God is not in control of diseases.

Most Christians do not believe in a young earth and do not believe that God engineered every species on Earth. Natural disasters and diseases appear to be an unavoidable part of our reality. Human-created evil appears to be avoidable, at least theoretically.
 
ceo_esq said:
Could be. I've never understood why some people think Hell (if it existed) would be all booze 'n' drugs 'n' hookers 'n' rock & roll. I wonder if they also think jail must be the place where we can joyride in stolen cars, plunder our companies' pension funds, and rob banks to our hearts' content?
Click to expand...

Well, we can only speculate about heaven/hell, or accept the various interpretations of biblical passages dealing with them, since we have no hard evidence to base our understanding on.

Jails on the other hand have a good deal of physical evidence to base opinions on. I would be surprised if anyone thinks a jail would be the place they can joyride in stolen cars, and the other things you mention. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people believe jails are places you get sent to for being caught doing those things you listed.

Maybe we can get a show of hands? ;)
 
JustGeoff said:
I've had this debate on this forum before. The claim that we have free will and the claim that God can accurately predict natural disasters are logically incompatible. If we have free will, then the future is not exactly predetermined. If the future is not exactly predetermined then even an omniscient God cannot perfectly know the future because the future is logically unknowable. It is no different to an omnipotent God not still not being able to create square circles.



OK, given that unless you are a young-earther you also accept that the existence of God is compatible with an evolutionary explanation of the origin of species, you also have to say that God is not in control of diseases.

Most Christians do not believe in a young earth and do not believe that God engineered every species on Earth. Natural disasters and diseases appear to be an unavoidable part of our reality. Human-created evil appears to be avoidable, at least theoretically.
Click to expand...

I can see your point about free will, omniscience, and disease; after all, the likelyhood of catching many diseases depends on the actions of individuals. But natural disasters are not related to human activity and free-will. The recent underwater earthquake in the Indian Ocean was not related to human activity at all. Surely God could have predicted that event, despite the existence of free will.
 
JustGeoff
The claim that we have free will and the claim that God can accurately predict natural disasters are logically incompatible. If we have free will, then the future is not exactly predetermined. If the future is not exactly predetermined then even an omniscient God cannot perfectly know the future because the future is logically unknowable.
Click to expand...
Superman is more powerful than god. Superman can’t predict the future, yet when a natural disaster starts he steps in and does what he can to lessen death, injury and property damage.

It is no different to an omnipotent God not still not being able to create square circles.
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An omnipotent god could make a square circle.

Ossai
 
JustGeoff said:
If we have free will, then the future is not exactly predetermined.

[snipped a lot, to show only the part I'm commenting on]
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When I thought such things mattered, my opinion on free will/predestination was that we are free to do what we want. But the all knowing invisible sky man already knows what we are going to do.

So, while we are free to do what we want, HE knows the things we will do and how they will end up. He hasn't set the course, he just knows where we're going, so to speak.

That was my opinion then. Now, I just think I'll have another round ;)
 
Ossai said:
JustGeoff
Superman is more powerful than god. Superman can’t predict the future, yet when a natural disaster starts he steps in and does what he can to lessen death, injury and property damage.
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Heck, HUMANS are more powerful than God in that respect. Doesn't the Almighty have access to doppler radar?

It amuses me how some of the faithful are prepared to reduce God's power. It never occurs to them to reduce God's benevolence.
 
when i was in sundayschool they showed us video that heaven would be full of bikes and cheeseburgers. there were no drugs, but the burgers looked good and it was all you could eat (an angel even pulled one out from behind a tree).
 
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gfunkusarelius said:
when i was in sundayschool they showed us video that heaven would be full of bikes and cheeseburgers. there were no drugs, but the burgers looked good and it was all you could eat (an angel even pulled one out from behind a tree).
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Well, I can't ride a bike anymore and I get tired of cheeseburgers kinda quickly.
 
JustGeoff said:
I've had this debate on this forum before. The claim that we have free will and the claim that God can accurately predict natural disasters are logically incompatible. If we have free will, then the future is not exactly predetermined. If the future is not exactly predetermined then even an omniscient God cannot perfectly know the future because the future is logically unknowable. It is no different to an omnipotent God not still not being able to create square circles.
Click to expand...

if god is neither omniscient nor omnipotent then why worship him - he's just an extra-terrestrial being......
 
JustGeoff said:
OK, free will and the fact the God is not capable of preventing natural disasters. Between them, natural disasters and human evil account for most of the sufferings of the world. God clearly cannot prevent the former and according to Christianity has chosen not to prevent the latter by granting us free will.
Click to expand...

Worst of all, it turns out letting people be free to pursue their greedy, capitalist pursuits does a hell of a lot better for the "common man" than two thousand years of preaching "help thy neighbor".

How embarassing for God!
 
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