Nationalism And Critical Thought

Here, you will find many utilitarians (little "u"). We are plenty open to hearing your thoughts as a Nazi, but ... you know. You creep us out.

How can nationalism succeed "better" when humans naturally stratify by class, manners, and intelligence under any system? Even China is wrought with elites, the supposed Maoist haven. No matter the system- it is a royal mess trying to reward individuals and punish the vile, while treating humanely those of good virtue but small capacity to take care of themselves. (If we accept those goals as worthy and noble...)
 
Freewill is always more powerful than any -ism in the long run, even it's based on stupidity or self destruction.
 
I love it when blonds have freewill...so long as they bathe regularly.

p.s. Natural blonds too, though they be very few.
 
blakehaydn said:
What do you have against responding to the subject of the post, or do you just like to insult people you don't agree with that much?
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I didn’t intend to sound insulting. When I said I can think of people who are smarter than you with better ideas of how to run a society, I meant that in the sense that there are people smarter than any of us, not that you’re stupid. I’m a pretty smart guy, for example, I score very well on IQ tests, but I’m not so conceited as to believe I’m the smartest person, or that my intelligence makes me particularly qualified to be a leader of hundreds of millions.

You, on the other hand, seem to have ambitions toward leadership, so I think it’s fair to ask you what makes you think you’re qualified to make decisions for others. What makes you qualified to make decisions for me or my family, for example.

As for what you said in the OP, I don’t think it’s particularly deep or worthy of comment. Most people, if asked, would agree there are “bad” or “good” kinds of nationalism, but exactly what that means depends on the point of view of the individual. Most will agree that “good” patriotism is whatever leads people to follow policies they agree with, and that “bad” or “jingoistic” patriotism is whatever leads people to follow policies they disagree with. It’s quite natural for any individual to conclude that “enlightened nationalism” that “doesn’t dominate objectivity” is the nationalism of people they agree with because that’s where their biases lay.

In essence, your short essay seems designed to get nods of agreement from people from any portion of the political spectrum, even those people will have very different ideas of what “enlightened nationalism” and “nationalistic corruption” are.

blakehaydn said:
Obviously there is something you disagree with, so let's stay on topic.
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I don’t know that I know enough about you to disagree, but I am curious about your ideas enough to want to know more. For example, what will you do when marches, poster campaigns, videos and literature fails to produce a large following? What will you do when someone among those who do choose to follow you decides that maybe he would make a better leader than you and challenges your authority? Or what will happen if the “destruction” that you predict fails to happen and society makes corrections on its own without your help?
 
blakehaydn said:
This is just ignorance, let's take a look at MTV for a second. Have they not "socially engineered" for profit by getting kids to think certain ways and like certain types of music? Capitalist trends are based on social engineering. I am simply implying to social engineer for progress, not profit.

Companies that sell feminine products use certain shapes in their packaging to appeal to the human mind more, could this also be related to social engineering?

And how about unconscious social engineering? Take a look at all the different cultures that have ever existed and their extreme differences? To say social engineering is not possible is to deny the concept of socialization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialization - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resocialization
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1) TURN THE TV OFF AND GO OUTSIDE AND PLAY A GAME.

2) DON'T BUY THE PRODUCT YOU DON'T LIKE.

3) DON'T LISTEN TO STUFF YOU DON'T WANT TO LISTEN TO.

Or have I missed your point entirely? And you want everyone to like what YOU like? Watch what YOU watch? Buy what YOU buy?
 
blakehaydn said:
This is just ignorance, let's take a look at MTV for a second. Have they not "socially engineered" for profit by getting kids to think certain ways and like certain types of music? Capitalist trends are based on social engineering. I am simply implying to social engineer for progress, not profit.
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Granted, advertisement is social engineering. However, i can look away and choose not to let it affect me. It's a different thing from top-down political social engineering.

blakehaydn said:
To say social engineering is not possible is to deny the concept of socialization.
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Oh, but i'm not saying it doesn't work -- i'm saying it doesn't "work", because it will be a disaster.
 
blakehaydn said:
I can think of a big reason that you completely overlooked, culture (philosophies, art, accomplishments, strength) perhaps? "There's no reason." So let me get this right, you're saying there is no scientific explanation at all for why a citizenry or individual might feel attached to their country besides emotional bonds that are "just there"?
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No. I love Scandinavia, and i would never want to live anywhere else. That's because i grew up here, i like the people and i like the climate (believe it or not).
However, that doesn't mean that Scandinavian culture is in any way superior to Japanese, Brazilian or South African culture. It's just a matter of what i'm used to.
Nationalism means putting your own country on a pedestal, and believing that it rightly deserves to be there. See the difference? A nationalist political party that tells people "Sweden is great, because you grew up here and got used to it" would be fairly pointless, wouldn't you agree?
Nationalism is irrational because it teaches that your grass is greener, no matter whether it actually is.

Oh, and also it's a divisive force that makes people kill eachother over absolutely nothing.
 
Or put it this way. There are nationalists in the US, and there are nationalists in Iraq. Both think their culture is far superior to the other. Is one of them right and the other wrong? Obviously no. They just love the country where they were born, and nothing wrong with that. But it's empathically NOT rational.
 
Much smarter men than any of us have made more pertinent observations than most of us here . . .
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"This heroism at command, this senseless violence, this accursed bombast of patriotism. How intensely I despise them!"
Albert Einstein

PATRIOT, n. One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to those of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerors.
Ambrose Bierce

PATRIOTISM, n. Combustible rubbish read to the torch of anyone ambitious to illuminate his name.
Ambrose Bierce

"Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons."
Bertrand Russell

"Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first."
Charles de Gaulle

"We must be truthful and fair in the ordinary affairs of life before we can be truthful and fair in patriotism and religion."
Ed Howe

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."
George Bernard Shaw

"When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and purity of its heart."
Ralph Waldo Emerson

"The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country."
Thomas Paine
_________

Is one guilty of blind nationalism capable of critical thought? I don't think so. To perceive yourself as superior for something out of your control (race, culture, birthplace) is in direct conflict with the basis for critical thought.
 
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