Near-death experiences!

Johnny C. said:
You usually should read the book before calling BS.
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This is not about "Beyond the Final Frontier", which I have never seen, but in response to one of these "You should read it first" comments. I started to read Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You to Know about by Kevin Trudeau. I made it through the second chapter before I had to stop because of nausea.

You don't have to eat the whole apple to know it's rotten.
 
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Tricky said:
This is not about "Beyond the Final Frontier", which I have never seen, but in response to one of these "You should read it first" comments. I started to read Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You to Know about by Kevin Trudeau. I made it through the second chapter before I had to stop because of nausea.

You don't have to eat the whole apple to know it's rotten.
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I dont think thai has even read the cover.
 
Originally Posted by CFLarsen :
Originally Posted by PetriFB :
After death of Jesus and fulfillment of New covenant filled in pentecost day ...

So, when Jesus lived, he was promoting Old Testament ways?
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If Jesus promoted Old Testament ways, do you think the religious leadership would have been able to justify his death sentence?
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PetriFB said:
Mark 7:
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Religious leaders were twisted word of God and they believed more tradition of men than word of God ...and that is teh reason why they justified Jesus' death sentence ....
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I agree that those are the reasons why the Jewish religious leadership had Christ condemned.


They were able to justify his execution to the Jewish people by pointing out his repeated violations of their interpretation of Old Testament law, and they were able to justify his execution to the Roman authorities by falsely painting Him as a threat to Roman rule.
 
MRC_Hans said:
My bolding....
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Yeah, you're "bold" alright.

Is it just me, or is there something particularly absurd about saying something like that and at the same time promoting a literal Bible interpretation?

PetriFB (and Huntster too, it appears): You are the present-day pharisees and scribes....[/QUOTE]

And you are a present day fool.

1) I don't interpret the Bible literally throughout
2) I'm not a religious leader

You are reading the scriptures rigorously, and beating people on their heads with it.
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I admit doing that to some people, doing regularly, and doing it with great glee. I like the hollow sound I hear when doing so.

You are claiming to know the ways of the Lord by your reading of scripture.
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I claim to understand it as I interpret it, or as religious leaders interpret it and I agree with their interpretation after reasoning through it.

You are the kind Jesus was fighting.
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Nope. He fought those who had the authority to dictate religious law to the masses.

I don't have nor want that authority or responsibility.
 
Huntster said:
Those which I have reasoned to be literally worthy of belief.

Because I have reasoned them to be worthy of belief, and the others are not.
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Exactly which parts of the Bible do you take literally?

What is the reasoning behind it?
 
CFLarsen said:
Originally Posted by Huntster :
Those which I have reasoned to be literally worthy of belief.

Because I have reasoned them to be worthy of belief, and the others are not.
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Exactly which parts of the Bible do you take literally?

What is the reasoning behind it?
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There are too many to list, and my reasoning wouldn't be accepted by you or many others here, and it would devolve into game playing and tomfoolery.

No, thanks, Claus. I have my reasons for accepting what I have, and my reasons for rejecting what I have (regarding Christianity, Taoism, Islam, aboriginal beliefs, science, and other avenues of learning and belief).

What's more, I admire others who can reason through the many avenues of faith and knowledge and reject rigid ideology, and I distain those who find fault with the spirituality of others from a single ideology (whether that is religion or science).
 
MRC_Hans said:
My bolding.

Is it just me, or is there something particularly absurd about saying something like that and at the same time promoting a literal Bible interpretation?

PetriFB (and Huntster too, it appears): You are the present-day pharisees and scribes. You are reading the scriptures rigorously, and beating people on their heads with it. You are claiming to know the ways of the Lord by your reading of scripture. You are the kind Jesus was fighting.

Oh, the irony.

Hans
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Pharisees and scribes were such who didn't follow word of God, but tradition of men ...

They didn't like the truth, but twisted truth .......

But any way thanks about your feedback ...
 
Huntster said:
There are too many to list, and my reasoning wouldn't be accepted by you or many others here, and it would devolve into game playing and tomfoolery.

No, thanks, Claus. I have my reasons for accepting what I have, and my reasons for rejecting what I have (regarding Christianity, Taoism, Islam, aboriginal beliefs, science, and other avenues of learning and belief).

What's more, I admire others who can reason through the many avenues of faith and knowledge and reject rigid ideology, and I distain those who find fault with the spirituality of others from a single ideology (whether that is religion or science).
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Heavens, I'd be content with, say....three examples? That shouldn't be insurmountable.

As for your reasoning being accepted or not - you are on a forum where we treasure reasoning. I am very interested in hearing how you reasoned your way to a religious belief.
 
CFLarsen said:
Heavens, I'd be content with, say....three examples? That shouldn't be insurmountable.
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Here is a simple one:

Exodus 3:13-14
"But," said Moses to God, "when I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' if they ask me, 'What is his name?' what am I to tell them?" God replied, "I am who am." Then he added, "This is what you shall tell the Israelites: I AM sent me to you."
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Tao Te Ching 1
The tao that can be described
is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be spoken
is not the eternal Name.

The nameless is the boundary of Heaven and Earth.
The named is the mother of creation.
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Lesson #1:

The religious faith is different, but the message is the same.

It is this way throughout human spirituality. Rather than focusing on the differences, focus on the similarities. You will find the truth.

Knock and it will be opened unto you. Seek and ye shall find.
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As for your reasoning being accepted or not - you are on a forum where we treasure reasoning. I am very interested in hearing how you reasoned your way to a religious belief.
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We shall see.

We shall also see if what I wrote shall come to pass:

...my reasoning wouldn't be accepted by you or many others here, and it would devolve into game playing and tomfoolery.
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Huntster said:
Here is a simple one:

Exodus 3:13-14



Tao Te Ching 1


Lesson #1:

The religious faith is different, but the message is the same.

It is this way throughout human spirituality. Rather than focusing on the differences, focus on the similarities. You will find the truth.
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"I am who I am"? That's your "reasoning"? That's circular reason, a logical fallacy.

Here's one such:
We know God exists because we can see the perfect order of His Creation, an order which demonstrates supernatural intelligence in its design.
Source
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Is this one of the things you have reasoned your way to? Do you believe that God exists, because we can see the perfect order of his supernatural intelligence in its design?

Huntster said:
We shall see.

We shall also see if what I wrote shall come to pass:
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Resorting to Biblical phrases may not be your strongest weapon on a skeptics board.
 
CFLarsen said:
"I am who I am"? That's your "reasoning"?
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No. The similarities between religions (that most consider diametrically opposed) are more significant than the differences is my reasoning.

That's circular reason, a logical fallacy.
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God/spirituality can be considered a circular phenomenon, and logic may or not apply.

Here's one such:

We know God exists because we can see the perfect order of His Creation, an order which demonstrates supernatural intelligence in its design.
Source


Is this one of the things you have reasoned your way to?
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No.

Do you believe that God exists, because we can see the perfect order of his supernatural intelligence in its design?
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No. I believe in God because I have learned as much as I could from theologians of several religions, I have no reason to reject all their teachings, the similarities of thought/belief/opinion are compelling to me, and (because I do believe) I have great respect and appreciation for His Creation.

Originally Posted by Huntster :
We shall see.

We shall also see if what I wrote shall come to pass:
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Resorting to Biblical phrases may not be your strongest weapon on a skeptics board.
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Nothing accomplishes anything on a skeptic's board. That is why I wrote:

...my reasoning wouldn't be accepted by you or many others here, and it would devolve into game playing and tomfoolery.
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