[Moderated Thread] CFLarsen's and SteveGrenard's Pedophilia Thread

[Luke T.]

Man-boy sexual relationships in a cross-cultural perspective. Paidika: The Journal of Paedophilia, 2, (Issue 5), 28-40.

http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/dal/dallam02_refs.htm

Is that it's full name? Paidika: The Journal of Paedophilia?

ETA: Apparently so.

 

[Luke T.]

So am I following the thread correctly? There is a pedophilia-friendly, if not "pro pedophilia", journal. At one time, a Professor Bullough was a consulting editor of that journal. This same Professor Bullough was also a CSICOP Fellow.

That about sum up your position, Steve?

 

[Lisa Simpson]

And because this guy worked on a book published by Prometheus, they are pedophile porn peddlers?

 

[SteveGrenard]

So am I following the thread correctly? There is a pedophilia-friendly, if not "pro pedophilia", journal. At one time, a Professor Bullough was a consulting editor of that journal. This same Professor Bullough was also a CSICOP Fellow.

That about sum up your position, Steve?

It is the same person. He has recently passed away and I have been aware of his battle with cancer for awhile so I wasn't really interested in pursuing this but Claus' behavior forced me to do so.

Here is the URL for his CV:

http://www.vernbullough.com/bullough/VITA-1-April-2006.doc

Here is an excerpt from what is otherwise a highly distinguished career. The exception is his support and work for Paidika. He also worked for Paul Kurtz at Prometheus to shepherd many of the titles editorially and through publication which in response to requests from RandFan and Larsen I was
also compelled to forward here.

1988-98 Consulting Editor, Paidika
1983-87 CI, Bulletin, American Association
for the History of Nursing
1983 - Senior Editor, Skeptical Inquirer
1977-87 Associate Editor, Journal of Sex Research
1980 - Senior Editor, Free Inquiry
1977 - Editorial Advisory Board,Journal of Homosexuality
1974-79 Contributing Editor, Signs

 

[SteveGrenard]

And because this guy worked on a book published by Prometheus, they are pedophile porn peddlers?

No, not "because" ... it just so happens that he was at SUNY-Buffalo where CSICOP and Prometheus is headquarterd and where the head of CSICOP also works. His CV clearly details both his Paidika role and his Prometheus role.
Prometheus, is of course, a respected publisher of skeptical books by Randi and Shermer among others. The company was founded and I guess is still owned by Paul Kurtz who also co-founded CSICOP. I understand one or more of his grown children now run the company on a day to day basis.

This doesn't make Prometheus "pedophile porn peddlers." A few of the books they published which were listed above makes them involved in paedophilia (at least one title but the theme is buried in other titles) and in pornography (see multi-volume Guide to pornographic videos which includes titles of kiddie porn type).

I am sorry but I still don't see why it is so difficult to understand why myself and others would be taken aback by the fact that such an important publisher of both skeptical, historical, scientific and philosophical works would publish sexual autobiographies describing the joys of having sexual relations with animals or books which are used by NAMBLA to justify their position or why the late editor of many of these titles happened to spend ten years as a member of the editorial board of a magazine that justifies paedophilia and whose objective is to "normalize" and decriminalize child molestation in society.

Prometheus is neither a cable company, hotel room or in theory any part of the adult entertainment industry so that comparison is fallacious. They present themselves as a scholarly publishing company and there is no objection to scholarly monograph publication on paedophilia or any other behavior, and they have done that but they have crossed way beyond that line when you consider some of the titles which you can review for yourselves by clicking on each of the titles listed for a brief review of the subject matter. The video porn catalogue has got to be the most blatant example. Is the cognitive dissonance displayed by Larsen, Keogh or RandFan so great they are incapable of waking up and smelling the stink? Sure if Prometheus Publishing were a person it would be a skeptical icon but idol worship should've been thrown out a long time ago and people realize that even in the best of all worlds even idols are not perfect.

So that pretty much sums up my position and I don't know what more I can do to provide evidence of both the existence of the publications or the involvement of the late and otherwise highly distinguished Professor Bullough
in the Paidika movement. He was involved with them officially for a decade, between 1988 and 1998 according to his own c.v.

For that reason I am labeled a prude by Larsen ... and for the reasons above I am proud of it.

 

[Checkmite]

Books and agendas aside, I'm not really sure how to digest the apparent fact that the editor (for ten years!) of a journal devoted to normalizing pedophilia sat happily on a list of CSICOP Fellows with no apparent problems. Unless CSICOP was unaware of this, which I could imagine without too much trouble. I really hope that's the case anyway, as I (used to?) like CSICOP.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Books and agendas aside, I'm not really sure how to digest the apparent fact that the editor (for ten years!) of a journal devoted to normalizing pedophilia sat happily on a list of CSICOP Fellows with no apparent problems. Unless CSICOP was unaware of this, which I could imagine without too much trouble. I really hope that's the case anyway, as I (used to?) like CSICOP.

I would be happy to buy into Prometheus' or CSICOPS ignorance on that matter if it were not for the existence of that very very long list of titles and their ongoing video porn catalogue project. Remember that CSICOP and Prometheus are linked through the boss of both, Paul Kurtz.

Correction to above: Prof. Bullough was not the editor of Paidika, he was an editorial consultant and was proud enough of this fact to include it on his continuously updated c.v. which is available on the web.

 

[Checkmite]

Prof. Bullough was not the editor of Paidika, he was an editorial consultant and was proud enough of this fact to include it on his continuously updated c.v. which is available on the web.

I stand corrected; I'm not sure if that makes things better, though.

 

[HarryKeogh]

Well, I have no problem with the video porn catalog. But I do have a problem with a person who was a contributing editor to a pro-pedophilia journal being a prominent member of CSICOP.

Interesting stuff, Steve. This requires further digging into.

 

[RandFan]

Is the cognitive dissonance displayed by ...RandFan...

What are you talking about? I only noted that you were being disingenuous. Which you were. I did not speak to anything else.

 

[RandFan]

...which in response to requests from RandFan ...I was also compelled to forward here.

Dude, take some responsibility for your own actions. You were behaving poorly going on and on about how the thread was inappropriate to post the list in but it didn't keep you from going on and on with the protest. That's what is known as disingenuous. You could have at anytime split of the thread or simply posted the information and ended your silly game.

ETA: I don't have a dog in this fight so leave me out of it.

 

[Skeptic]

Oh, this is awkward. They told us too. Did you really think you could away claiming that "Young, Hung Studs" was a training expense?

Er... educational video?

 

[Skeptic]

The solution that I'm suggesting is that paedophiles become much more positive. They should directly attack the concept, the image, the picture of the paedophile as an evil, wicked, and reprehensible exploiter of children.

I, for one, think rapists should become much more positive. They should directly attack the concept, the image, the picture of the rapist as an evil, wicked, and reprehensible exploiter of women.

Like the pedophile's image, I'm sure that unfair characterization is all the feminists' fault. Obviously raping women is part of God's plan, isn't it?

 

[RandFan]

Er... educational video?

Dudley Moore, Foul Play.

 

[CFLarsen]

In answer to your specific question, I have not read any of this trash but I have reviewed the reviews and descriptions of many nof these titles and anyone is welcome to do the same.

That doesn't answer the question: Which one(s) of the books you listed justify, glorify and condone pedophilia?

About Ralph Underwager:

We are not discussing Underwager or Wakefield.

It is the same person. He has recently passed away and I have been aware of his battle with cancer for awhile so I wasn't really interested in pursuing this but Claus' behavior forced me to do so.

You are the one who has kept bringing this up, again and again and again.

Here is an excerpt from what is otherwise a highly distinguished career. The exception is his support and work for Paidika.

How do you know that Bullough supported pedophilia? Is it possible that he merely offered his knowledge?

I'm not a conservative, but I've written for conservative newspapers. Does writing for a conservative newspaper make me a conservative?

He also worked for Paul Kurtz at Prometheus to shepherd many of the titles editorially and through publication which in response to requests from RandFan and Larsen I was also compelled to forward here.

You were flushed out, Steve. Don't wring your hands and play the victim.

No, not "because" ... it just so happens that he was at SUNY-Buffalo where CSICOP and Prometheus is headquarterd and where the head of CSICOP also works.

His CV clearly details both his Paidika role and his Prometheus role.

His CV clearly states:

1988-98 Consulting Editor, Paidika

That's it, Steve.

Prometheus, is of course, a respected publisher of skeptical books by Randi and Shermer among others.

Don't try to pass yourself off as someone who admires Randi or Shermer. You have for a long time now been on a quest to smear as many skeptics as possible.

This doesn't make Prometheus "pedophile porn peddlers." A few of the books they published which were listed above makes them involved in paedophilia (at least one title but the theme is buried in other titles)

Name that book. Does it support paedophilia, or does it describe what it is?

and in pornography (see multi-volume Guide to pornographic videos which includes titles of kiddie porn type).

I am sorry but I still don't see why it is so difficult to understand why myself and others would be taken aback by the fact that such an important publisher of both skeptical, historical, scientific and philosophical works would publish sexual autobiographies describing the joys of having sexual relations with animals or books which are used by NAMBLA to justify their position

Why is that CSICOP's problem?

or why the late editor of many of these titles happened to spend ten years as a member of the editorial board of a magazine that justifies paedophilia and whose objective is to "normalize" and decriminalize child molestation in society.

He was a consulting editor.

Prometheus is neither a cable company, hotel room or in theory any part of the adult entertainment industry so that comparison is fallacious. They present themselves as a scholarly publishing company and there is no objection to scholarly monograph publication on paedophilia or any other behavior, and they have done that

So, they do not publish books that justify, glorify and condone pedophilia?

but they have crossed way beyond that line when you consider some of the titles which you can review for yourselves by clicking on each of the titles listed for a brief review of the subject matter. The video porn catalogue has got to be the most blatant example. Is the cognitive dissonance displayed by Larsen, Keogh or RandFan so great they are incapable of waking up and smelling the stink? Sure if Prometheus Publishing were a person it would be a skeptical icon but idol worship should've been thrown out a long time ago and people realize that even in the best of all worlds even idols are not perfect.

So that pretty much sums up my position and I don't know what more I can do to provide evidence of both the existence of the publications

You can name them. Those books that justify, glorify and condone pedophilia.

or the involvement of the late and otherwise highly distinguished Professor Bullough in the Paidika movement. He was involved with them officially for a decade, between 1988 and 1998 according to his own c.v.

For that reason I am labeled a prude by Larsen ... and for the reasons above I am proud of it.

Come to think of it, you may not be a prude after all, Steve. There is definitely the possibility that you have seen an opportunity to strike back at skeptics by pretending to be outraged by a catalogue on x-rated (but legal) films. By linking pornography to skepticism, you think you can weaken skepticism.

 

[Mycroft]

1988-98 Consulting Editor, Paidika

That's it, Steve.

Yeah, but isn't that a lot?

Paidika is a pro-pedophile publication, isn't it? A ten year professional relationship is a long time.

You can name them. Those books that justify, glorify and condone pedophilia.

I don't know about glorifying and justifying pedophilia, but there are certainly books on that list of questionable academic value, wouldn't you agree?



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087975656X/104-3418406-0688756?v=glance&n=283155

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1573922366/104-3418406-0688756?v=glance&n=283155

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1573921688/104-3418406-0688756?v=glance&n=283155

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087975821X/104-3418406-0688756?v=glance&n=283155

 

[Luke T.]

Claus, I agree that some of Steve's rhetoric is prudish. The stuff about porn catalogs or whatever.

But all that aside, the association of a CSICOP Fellow with a pro-pedophilia journal is worrisome. Being officially affiliated with such an organization is not the same as writing an article for a conservative magazine, unless you equate writing with being on the staff, and conservatives with pedophilia.

We shouldn't so defensive that we willingly blind ourselves to legitimate concerns from our critics. That is antithetical to the cause of skepticism.

 

[CFLarsen]

Yeah, but isn't that a lot?

Paidika is a pro-pedophile publication, isn't it? A ten year professional relationship is a long time.

Does that mean that he supported pedophilia?

I don't know about glorifying and justifying pedophilia, but there are certainly books on that list of questionable academic value, wouldn't you agree?

Gee, I dunno. Who sets the standards, Mycroft? You?

Here's what Prometheus publishes:

Among the categories of books published are popular science, science and the paranormal, contemporary issues, social science and current events, children's fiction and nonfiction, history, religion and politics, philosophy, humanism, Islamic studies, Jewish studies, biblical criticism, psychology, women's issues, health, self-help, sexuality, reference, and more. Prometheus also maintains a strong backlist that includes hundreds of established classics in literature, philosophy, and the sciences.
Source

That's a very wide range of subject. Can you, today, address sexuality subjects without addressing pornography?

Claus, I agree that some of Steve's rhetoric is prudish. The stuff about porn catalogs or whatever.

But all that aside, the association of a CSICOP Fellow with a pro-pedophilia journal is worrisome.

I doubt it was a secret to CSICOP. Why don't you write and ask them about this?

Being officially affiliated with such an organization is not the same as writing an article for a conservative magazine, unless you equate writing with being on the staff, and conservatives with pedophilia.

Here's something for you to ponder. The current editor-in-chief for B.T., a Danish newspaper of right-leaning political observance, is Erik Meier Carlsen. He started in the SocialDemocratic press, moved to Information, a left-leaning newspaper, then to Børsen (The Danish Wall Street Journal), definitely of right-leaning observance, then back to the SocialDemocratic press, then to a right-leaning business weekly, before he got his current job.

Which political observance does Erik Meier Carlsen have?

Do you think it is possible to be a consultant for a company without supporting its goals? (Here's a hint: The answer has two letters, and begins with "Y").

We shouldn't so defensive that we willingly blind ourselves to legitimate concerns from our critics. That is antithetical to the cause of skepticism.

Heavens, no. But we should criticize when there is something to criticize.

Do we know that Bullough supported pedophilia? No. Steve is simply desperately trying to link skeptics to pornography, in any sneaky, underhanded way he can. Steve is very busy throwing ◊◊◊◊ around, hoping that something will stick.

 

[Luke T.]

I doubt it was a secret to CSICOP. Why don't you write and ask them about this?

Perhaps I will.

Do you think it is possible to be a consultant for a company without supporting its goals? (Here's a hint: The answer has two letters, and begins with "Y").

No. Being a consultant is by definition supporting.

 

[BPSCG]

Do you think it is possible to be a consultant for a company without supporting its goals? (Here's a hint: The answer has two letters, and begins with "Y").

Ya?
Ye?
Yi?
Yo?
Yu?